Weight loss surgery and the 1,200 calorie stigma
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Most of the "pro-ana crowd" are much kinder and better behaved than many people who frequent these boards. For the most part, those girls are very sweet. He'd on themselves, but very good to others.
These threads you see that sound like anorexics are rarely started by actual anorexics. They're troll threads. Anorexics DO NOT NEED diet tips, lol. If there is one thing they know, it's how to lose weight. They also do not go around advertising their problems, especially in places where they'll be insulted. Their self-esteem is low enough already. They won't ask for insults.
When you see a thread giving textbook descriptions of anorexia and asking for tips on weight loss, know this: the person is trolling.
We see many posts that discuss unhealthy and disordered eating here...but they're always the kind of disordered and unhealthy things that make you fat instead of too thin. Having a disorder that makes you fat doesn't make one better than having one that makes you thin. It makes you their equal.
I just had to say my piece there and am not trying to pick on anyone.
It would be so nice if the overeaters could lop off half their problem and the undereaters could lop off half of theirs and everyone could switch and all would be healthy and happy. As it is, I guess we all have to work on our own issues.
If some anorexic girl reads this and decides to friend me, know this: I will tell you to eat. I will tell you that all the time. Because you should be eating. Everyone deserves to eat and be healthy and YOU are part of everyone. There are precisely two ways out of ana: recovery and death. Guess which one I support? (And guess which one I will encourage you to seek? Uh-huh.) Make no mistake! I support the person. I do not (NOT!) support the starving behavior. So, there's that.
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I was on a 1200 cal food plan before I had WLS sleeve surgery from 2/1/12 till pre op liquid diet two weeks before surgery date of 6/11/12. The WLS nutritionist said to intake 1400 cals but I did 1200 pre op and lost 47 pounds during that time. After my WLS sleeve I struggled to get in 500 cals the first couple months but focused on protein 80-100 grams a day along with daily vitamins I took and still take to this day. I worked up to 800 cals and then 1000 cals to 1200 cals during my loosing weight stages post op and lost another 99 pounds post op. I started to up my cals to 1400 and higher to stop loosing and maintaining. I sometimes ate back my exercise calories burned but most of the time I didn't. It depends alot on what type of WLS you have with RYN there is more of a chance to have mal absorption issues from the foods you eat vs. VSG (sleeve) or lap band. They still have you take the same amounts of vitamins for RNY people as Sleeve people. My labs have came back great at 1 month post op, 3 months post op, 6 months post op, 1 year post op and then yearly after that.
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Obviously we all read a different subset of threads but the ones I've seen with physical symptoms are amenorrhic due to too low of body fat and too much exercise, not really nutrition issues.cwolfman13 wrote: »If you search, you will find plenty of posts on this very forum of people eating too few calories and not getting proper nutrition and losing their periods, nails cracking and breaking off, hair falling out, etc....
And then way more common is the teen/20-something who is trying their first diet and is thinking they "broke" themselves from undereating for 3 days, mostly from forum misinfo.
I hear a lot about the anorexics here but have not met any. You'd think they'd befriend me, since I defend 1200 as safe. I really think they have pro-ana sites to hang out at.
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Anorexia is much more complicated than eating less than a certain amount of calories. It is a control related disorder.
The short of it - anorexia is about control.
Yes, much of pro-Ana items are related to food, but more importantly there is a lot of hiding and not wanting anyone to take away the thing they can control.
The amount of calories one uses to lose weight won't necessarily indicate a disorder and is a highly personal and at times sensitive topic.
The 1,000 or 1,200 threshold, I think has to do with legal liability more than anything. Eating too little over a period of time can be extremely detrimental especially if not closely monitored by a doctor. Most can maintain the necessary nutrients to sustain life at calories over 1,000. Of course there are other factors that factor in, age, height, sex, medical conditions, etc.
Yes, for some long term nutritional deficits would manifest if one were not to get more than those minimum recommended calorie amounts and their body required it. But the human body is pretty darn amazing and will (without a disorder present) make one pretty miserable until they took in enough calories to be healthy.2 -
Well said.0
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It is not a myth. It is a known fact that it takes roughly 1200-1500 cal for the average healthy female or male respectively to maintain BMR for the things our bodies do like breathing, digestion, cell function etc... That is if you are just sitting there. If the most inactive people would still use more than that. While it is true that a person who has any type of WLS will eat few calories initially any program worth its weight would not advocate that long term. It is true that you can get the vitamins and minerals needed from supplements (always necessary for RNY because of the nature of the surgery) getting them from food is much better and more satisfying. I had the vertical sleeve gastrectomy (VSG). I am four months out and I currently eat on average 1000-1200 cal a day. I get most of what I need from food, which is how mother nature intended. I have lost more than 100 lbs, 60 of which is post the procedure. What the procedure did for me is allows me to manage my portions which were way out of control. I now get cues that I am full that I have not had in a long time from years of over eating. I feel like I am in control of the food instead of the food being in control of me. It is however possible for every person that has WLS to eat around their tool and many do. Many people know someone who has. I do. Just like all endeavors a person has to be committed to a lifestyle change and that is also true of people who choose to have WLS. I still pick healthy options, avoid sweets, and I exercise 4-6/week.
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It can be done (my brother is a doc, and he says in severe cases they recommend about 600 cals and tons of supplements), but why would you want to? A friend had the surgery and ate as little as you suggest--she lost a TON of hair, messed with her fertility pretty badly, and she's started gaining a lot back. So you can go below 1200--just be aware there are consequences. Typically these VLC diets are only recommended where a patient will most likely die if they don't lose weight.2
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Aside from the benefits of exercise, the 2 are exactly equal.zarckon wrote:My question is actually more around "calories eaten" vs "net calories".
... It seems to me that we should make a distinction between "sitting on the couch all day and only ate 1200" and "Ate 1800 and knocked out 600 calories of exercise with a long workout". The second seems far better to me.
You're going to lose the same amount of weight with both approaches.
Actually, my doctor says to ignore exercise calories, just eat at my goal.
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It's not a stigma, it's science.thedarkwombat wrote:I see a lot of talk on here and the internet regarding the "dangers" of going below 1,200 calories... I question it's (sic) genesis.
... Has there ever been a case of someone who was eating 500 to 800 calories a day and got sick or died?
For an average-size woman, 1200 will let her get all the nutrition she needs.
Less than that, it's hard.
And yes, people have died from not eating enough, even here in the USA.0 -
It's frustrating because every doctor and nutritionist I talk to gives me different answers. I was eating 1200 for a while (sometimes a bit more) and have been stalled for weeks. My nutritionist wants me back down at 1000 per day (and I'm 6 feet tall). Frustrating.0
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I'd say it depends on height and how far you have left to go to goal weight. I'm 5" 1and 125Lbs. I am usually under 1200 except on Thursdays when I do grocery shopping and get my one indulgence for the week, usually a giant sloppy piece of carrot cake. I have suffered no I'll effects what so ever and actually feel a lot better and have more energy this way.0
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LOL, if you tell them, "Dr. X, Doctor Y told me this and now you're saying that. What gives?" they will discuss it or one will override the other. Ask your primary what to do. Generally, if your primary said one thing and the specialist said another, the primary will defer to the specialist's opinion.shellybelle1981 wrote: »It's frustrating because every doctor and nutritionist I talk to gives me different answers. I was eating 1200 for a while (sometimes a bit more) and have been stalled for weeks. My nutritionist wants me back down at 1000 per day (and I'm 6 feet tall). Frustrating.
If you have a cardiologist and a primary, the cardiologist will always win. I'd actually put money on it and I'm not the betting sort.
If it's a difference of 100 or 200 calories, it's unlikely that anyone will care a whole lot, but when in doubt, call your primary.
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At my 3 month post-op (WLS - July 9, 2014) visit, my doctor at Cleveland Clinic was dismayed (too strong a word, maybe concerned?) that I was eating as much as 800 calories a day. He wanted me to lose as much as possible within the first 6 months and felt it was key to my overall success that I eat more around 600-700 calories per day. I assume at my 6 month in January he'll inform me of a new goal. I've lost 40 pounds since surgery and am trying to lose more. It is hard to stay focused during the holidays...0
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I'm a 5'11", 172lbs starting weight 23 year old male that has been eating 800-1300 cal (usually around 1000-1100) a day for 30 days so far. I weigh everything solid, measure everything liquid. I don't underestimate my food intake.
I do 60 push ups 4 days a week, 60 sit ups 4 days a week. Otherwise, I'm a couch potato. I eat pretty much the same thing everyday, although there are some variations. My macros target is 40% proteins, 35% fat, 25% carbohydrates. I usually don't hit those targets, I'm more around 3X/3X/3X.
I focus on eating less at supper, which was the meal on which I feasted the most. My typical dinners used to top 1000 calories easily.
I've never felt better. I don't feel tired, although I sleep better than ever. I don't have headaches. I don't have problems concentrating at work.
I'm not advocating that everybody should be eating sub-1200 calories, just saying that your mileage may vary. Listen to your body and use your brain properly.
I now weigh ~159lbs, some weight I've lost could very well be lean mass, I know. I'm targeting 150lbs. Target date is December 21st. Afterwards, I will increase to 1600 for 2 weeks, then 2000 for 2 weeks, then tune up 100 cal a week until I find my maintenance daily intake. That way, When I'm back at maintenance, I should still be around 150lbs.
I'm a long-time lurker of these forums, and I think I know the typical user well enough to know that I will receive hate-mail. I don't mind, don't even bother, your words are wasted on me.
PLEASE READ:
I am not a dietician, doctor, or voodoo shaman, don't take my advice, I am in no way accountable for your issues.
I am aware of food disorders.
I don't encourage rapid weight loss at the detriment of one's health, consult a doctor or stop your diet if you feel side effects. I would do the same.
That gave me the sadz....
WTH would you want to get to 150 at 5'11"?3 -
I'm a 5'11", 172lbs starting weight 23 year old male that has been eating 800-1300 cal (usually around 1000-1100) a day for 30 days so far. I weigh everything solid, measure everything liquid. I don't underestimate my food intake.
I do 60 push ups 4 days a week, 60 sit ups 4 days a week. Otherwise, I'm a couch potato. I eat pretty much the same thing everyday, although there are some variations. My macros target is 40% proteins, 35% fat, 25% carbohydrates. I usually don't hit those targets, I'm more around 3X/3X/3X.
I focus on eating less at supper, which was the meal on which I feasted the most. My typical dinners used to top 1000 calories easily.
I've never felt better. I don't feel tired, although I sleep better than ever. I don't have headaches. I don't have problems concentrating at work.
I'm not advocating that everybody should be eating sub-1200 calories, just saying that your mileage may vary. Listen to your body and use your brain properly.
I now weigh ~159lbs, some weight I've lost could very well be lean mass, I know. I'm targeting 150lbs. Target date is December 21st. Afterwards, I will increase to 1600 for 2 weeks, then 2000 for 2 weeks, then tune up 100 cal a week until I find my maintenance daily intake. That way, When I'm back at maintenance, I should still be around 150lbs.
I'm a long-time lurker of these forums, and I think I know the typical user well enough to know that I will receive hate-mail. I don't mind, don't even bother, your words are wasted on me.
PLEASE READ:
I am not a dietician, doctor, or voodoo shaman, don't take my advice, I am in no way accountable for your issues.
I am aware of food disorders.
I don't encourage rapid weight loss at the detriment of one's health, consult a doctor or stop your diet if you feel side effects. I would do the same.
That gave me the sadz....
WTH would you want to get to 150 at 5'11"?
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it came from people of all sizes and shapes and ages and genders all latching on to the hypothetical example of a good caloric goal for a diet. and deciding it's the rule, instead of just a good gage for certain groups of people to start at.
I'm 5'11 and lightly active, so I need more than that. My "1200" is about 16-1800.0 -
...And, in other news, there are quite a few vertically challenged among us with lower TDEEs.
More importantly, your TDEE will vary according to the formula used to calculate it. Mine certainly does. Using the Mifflin-St. Jeor formula, my BMR is 673 calories/day, and my TDEE is 926 calories/day. Of course, I take this with a grain of salt. Harris-Benedict gives me a TDEE of around 1600, so I subtract around 25% from that number, for a goal of around 1200 calories per day.
This is all on paper, though, and I've found that, while math can give you a good starting point, we're all Special Snowflakes. We all need to make sure we're caring for our personal needs, modifying the basic rules of weight loss to meet them. Listening to your body is important. When I'm not eating enough, I feel run down, sometimes light-headed, so I grab a snack. When I've overeaten, my stomach actually hurts, and all I can do is whimper and vow to myself, "Never again," lol.0 -
I'm a 5'11", 172lbs starting weight 23 year old male that has been eating 800-1300 cal (usually around 1000-1100) a day for 30 days so far. I weigh everything solid, measure everything liquid. I don't underestimate my food intake.
I do 60 push ups 4 days a week, 60 sit ups 4 days a week. Otherwise, I'm a couch potato. I eat pretty much the same thing everyday, although there are some variations. My macros target is 40% proteins, 35% fat, 25% carbohydrates. I usually don't hit those targets, I'm more around 3X/3X/3X.
I focus on eating less at supper, which was the meal on which I feasted the most. My typical dinners used to top 1000 calories easily.
I've never felt better. I don't feel tired, although I sleep better than ever. I don't have headaches. I don't have problems concentrating at work.
I'm not advocating that everybody should be eating sub-1200 calories, just saying that your mileage may vary. Listen to your body and use your brain properly.
I now weigh ~159lbs, some weight I've lost could very well be lean mass, I know. I'm targeting 150lbs. Target date is December 21st. Afterwards, I will increase to 1600 for 2 weeks, then 2000 for 2 weeks, then tune up 100 cal a week until I find my maintenance daily intake. That way, When I'm back at maintenance, I should still be around 150lbs.
I'm a long-time lurker of these forums, and I think I know the typical user well enough to know that I will receive hate-mail. I don't mind, don't even bother, your words are wasted on me.
PLEASE READ:
I am not a dietician, doctor, or voodoo shaman, don't take my advice, I am in no way accountable for your issues.
I am aware of food disorders.
I don't encourage rapid weight loss at the detriment of one's health, consult a doctor or stop your diet if you feel side effects. I would do the same.
That gave me the sadz....
WTH would you want to get to 150 at 5'11"?
his personal preference and desired build?
shrug, I'm 5'11 and aiming for 145/150.
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Unique post I personally wouldn't eat that low though.0
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