Nutrition for healing? (with a scientific basis, not woo, please :) )

geebusuk
geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
edited November 9 in Food and Nutrition
First off, I'm looking for well researched (ideally with studies or DECENT medical citations to back it up) knowledge - on healing from injuries and anything specific I can do to help in regards to diet for this.

I appreciate at 35 things are going to be slower than at 17, but I've got had/got ongoing things that seem to be very slow to clear up.

Should take vitamin pills etc more regularly. Could eat a more varied diet, but if I'm going to do that, I want it be based on good research, not guess work.

Main injury is a shoulder impingement (or so I think). Also hurt foot a few weeks ago, but that was doing too much running too quickly after none for ages I reckon and not having enough rest generally.

(Doctors have just said "more rest". Diary isn't representative as I'm not particularly trying to lose weight and generally have calories in check for maitenance over a week, so haven't bothered massively.)

Replies

  • MakePeasNotWar
    MakePeasNotWar Posts: 1,329 Member
    I know that several studies have suggested that zinc, omega 3 fatty acids, and various antioxidant photochemicals can help with immune function and that a higher protein diet supports muscle, tendon and bone repair.

    Good sources of omega 3 are fatty fish, walnuts, flaxseeds and evening primrose oil.

    All fruits and vegetables contain phytochemicals, but I have read several texts and reputable articles that claim the most brightly and deeply coloured fruits and vegetables contain the highest levels of beneficial antioxidants. Dark leafy greens especially.

    Seafood, red meat nuts and seeds are good sources of zinc. Also wheat germ, but many people believe that wheat contributes to inflammation in the body (I've seen a lot of anecdotal evidence, but not much in the way of rigorous study on gluten and inflammation in non-celiacs)so it might be safer to leave that one.

  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    What research have you already done, OP?
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
    Cheers.

    Research has so far found that when you search for such things on the internet, you generally get very questionable results with unsubstantiated claims :(.

    I have been meaning to take my Omega 3 pills more regularly. I do eat plenty of protein (rarely under 150g - I weigh around 180lb).

    I've been about sceptical about how important antioxidants really are. Haven't seen information in relation to healing, but when I've read studies behind some other claims, the reality has been a lot less significant than suggestions in articles.

  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
    Without knowing what you've read...for health a whole foods diet with lots of nutrient dense plants. Regardless of the research, it all seems to point to that.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    Nutrition wise the best thing you can do is get a balanced diet and make sure you have moderate to high protein consumption. Protein is not just for muscle support but pretty much all major tissue including bone. Many people swear by glucosamine-chondritin but I don't believe the research is definitive on whether it works or not; best case scenario is that it "might" work. It seems like for some people it works and for others it's not, but I would be curious to see how much of the "it does work" group is placebo-effect or reality.

    It sounds like you probably need to work on shoulder mobility more than anything. On YouTube Kelly Sterritt is a widely regarded expert on mobility, you should go to his channel. When in doubt, go to an orthopedist or sports medicine doctor.
  • Kalikel
    Kalikel Posts: 9,603 Member
    If you didn't understand your diagnosis, call them up and ask them. Then ask them if changing your diet is in order.

    Until then, rest like they told you to rest. That's my advice.
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
    As above, protein levels should be fine - most days at least .85g/lb body weight. Over a week I tend to be around maintenance - some weeks a slight deficit, ohers a slight surplus.

    My shoulder has been 6 months since I was told to rest. It is a BIT better. If there's something I could be doing that imrpoves the healing, I'd prefer to be doing in now, rather than in another 6 months time.

    Unfortunately there's a lot of stuff out there that 'all points towards' certain things, but so often we see the research suggests it's complete ******. A lot of the claims for a 'wholefood' diet seem to follow this, thus my scepticism.

    I didn't have a diagnosis specifically - did go to a doctor about this and another issue (which has since sorted it's self) and he just said "rest" without specifying more. May have just been lazy doctoring as I wasn't on his books because I'm contracting in a different part of the country.
    Cheers for the youtube suggestion. Overall, I'm fairly flexible etc and my shoulder doesn't cause any issues in daily life - just that I'd like to get back to doing weights, but that's just going to make it worse until it's properly sorted.

    Do need to have a look at rehab stuff for it again. Also to try and confirm it's definitely the shoulder that's the issue. May give in and splash out on some official medical advise (ie sports physio etc.)
  • esjones12
    esjones12 Posts: 1,363 Member
    No scientific stuff here. But I do have a long list of injuries to my body I have rehabbed lol. I would think having a balanced diet is the best you can do for your body to recover properly. The body is an amazing thing, we just have to give it the proper fuel to do what it is supposed to.

    Shoulder injuries are nothing to mess with. Once they are injured they are never the same. I would seek a doctor who can give you the time of day, asap. Most likely you will end up doing lots of rest and physical therapy and then possibly MRI's, etc. Depends on the injury. If something feels "wrong" you need to rest it and get it checked out. I separated my shoulder back in March and believe me, every movement you do effects your shoulder!

    I ended up skipping PT because I was already rehabbing it with the help of my personal trainer. I soaked in epsom salts A LOT, iced it down, and rested it. I used some yoga and stretches to help, and built it back up very slowly. It's still not 100%, and probably never will be. However I knew what my injury was....so that determined my self-treatment plan.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    geebusuk wrote: »
    As above, protein levels should be fine - most days at least .85g/lb body weight. Over a week I tend to be around maintenance - some weeks a slight deficit, ohers a slight surplus.

    My shoulder has been 6 months since I was told to rest. It is a BIT better. If there's something I could be doing that imrpoves the healing, I'd prefer to be doing in now, rather than in another 6 months time.

    Unfortunately there's a lot of stuff out there that 'all points towards' certain things, but so often we see the research suggests it's complete ******. A lot of the claims for a 'wholefood' diet seem to follow this, thus my scepticism.

    I didn't have a diagnosis specifically - did go to a doctor about this and another issue (which has since sorted it's self) and he just said "rest" without specifying more. May have just been lazy doctoring as I wasn't on his books because I'm contracting in a different part of the country.
    Cheers for the youtube suggestion. Overall, I'm fairly flexible etc and my shoulder doesn't cause any issues in daily life - just that I'd like to get back to doing weights, but that's just going to make it worse until it's properly sorted.

    Do need to have a look at rehab stuff for it again. Also to try and confirm it's definitely the shoulder that's the issue. May give in and splash out on some official medical advise (ie sports physio etc.)

    There's no magic in a diet that's going to heal you, magic is for hippies. My primary recommendation would be to see a doctor and request an MRI. If not, watch videos that I mentioned above and work on shoulder mobility. Also look-up on YouTube...

    - Band Pull-Aparts (probably Joe DeFranco)
    - Spider Crawls (John Meadows)
    - Shoulder Separations with a band or PVC pipe

    At one point I honestly thought I was going to need surgery for my shoulder too. My range of motion was poor and it flat-out hurt to move into certain positions. The above three things literally saved my shoulder from surgery.
  • richardheath
    richardheath Posts: 1,276 Member
    Most supplements are snake oil.

    dietary-supplement-scientific-evidence-chart.png


    Interactive version HERE.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    richardheath wrote: »
    Most supplements are snake oil.

    dietary-supplement-scientific-evidence-chart.png


    Interactive version HERE.

    Thanks for sharing that Richard. I've read the same information but unfortunately it's typically in a 20 page study or a 100 page meta-analysis; the chart is definitely easier to follow. Yes, most supplements are garbage, many more are a "they might work", and very few are "yes they work" and "yes they work" on humans and not just rats. Be incredibly cautious with supplementation as there is a lot of clever marketing and creative "spin".
  • MakePeasNotWar
    MakePeasNotWar Posts: 1,329 Member
    richardheath wrote: »
    Most supplements are snake oil.

    dietary-supplement-scientific-evidence-chart.png


    Interactive version HERE.

    What a great resource; I especially love that you can click through to the actual studies. I just bookmarked it for future reference. Thanks for posting.
  • conniedj
    conniedj Posts: 470 Member
    You have to consider source as well. Eastman Kodak is still one of the largest producers of vitamin E. They discovered during the chemical process of using soybean oil to develop film that the waste byproduct was chemically identical to naturally occurring tocopherhol. Mmmmm....waste byproduct.
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
    richardheath wrote: »
    Most supplements are snake oil.

    dietary-supplement-scientific-evidence-chart.png


    Interactive version HERE.

    great link. thanks
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    so you don't trust your DR, but you trust a bunch of random people on MFP ...interesting..
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    edited December 2014
    geebusuk wrote: »
    Cheers.

    Research has so far found that when you search for such things on the internet, you generally get very questionable results with unsubstantiated claims :(.

    I have been meaning to take my Omega 3 pills more regularly. I do eat plenty of protein (rarely under 150g - I weigh around 180lb).

    I've been about sceptical about how important antioxidants really are. Haven't seen information in relation to healing, but when I've read studies behind some other claims, the reality has been a lot less significant than suggestions in articles.

    Several antioxidants do have actual scientific evidence that they may act as a preventative and/or a treatment for some diseases - curcumin and inflammatory bowel/colon cancer, for example.

    There's not much on any dietary supplement aiding with healing muscle pulls, nerve pinches, that sort of injury though.

    Food for thought - I read a paper not long ago that correlated antioxidant intake (after diagnosis) with reduced survival rates in several cancers and infectious diseases. Yes, correlation != causation, but it was an interesting finding. The authors hypothesized that taking antioxidants impaired the immune system's ability to kill the invading/abnormal cells given that free radicals are a significant part of that process.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    I can't cite any articles because the proven diet-led cures I know about are historical. As soon as better treatments were available, the diets have faded in to history.

    Tuberculosis was a dreaded killer until antibiotics were developed. The most effective cure before antibiotics was a 3,000 calorie a day diet. Steak every night. The body burned up the calories fighting the disease naturally. Didn't always work, of course.

    Before insulin, the only "cure" for type 1 diabetes was a starvation diet. I tried this for a few days when I ran out of Metformin and I can personally attest it is grossly ineffective compared to modern treatments.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    conniedj, Kopi Luwak is a by-product but is still considered a delicacy. Just because we take advantage of the leftovers of another process doesn't necessarily mean it's bad.
  • sheepotato
    sheepotato Posts: 600 Member
    richardheath wrote: »
    Most supplements are snake oil.

    Interactive version HERE.

    Interesting, thanks for sharing that link.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    stealthq wrote: »
    The authors hypothesized that taking antioxidants impaired the immune system's ability to kill the invading/abnormal cells given that free radicals are a significant part of that process.

    I'm "funny" about that stuff, but to be fair I really haven't researched it. From a practical stand-point, my wife is a Sonographer and just scanned a lady with very progressive breast cancer. Last year she was diagnosed with breast cancer but instead of going through regular therapy and what not, she opt'd to take anti-oxidants and some oxygen therapy. A year later, her cancer is very progressive and is probably going to die. Maybe this stuff has some preventative value, but in no way should replace modern medical procedures for certain issues.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    so you don't trust your DR, but you trust a bunch of random people on MFP ...interesting..

    I trust you. Now tell me something sciencey.
  • tomatoey
    tomatoey Posts: 5,446 Member
    richardheath wrote: »
    Most supplements are snake oil.

    dietary-supplement-scientific-evidence-chart.png


    Interactive version HERE.

    I take some of the stuff in the "inconclusive" category for MSK issues just in case it might make a difference. Note that sometimes the evidence isn't "strong" simply because it hasn't been studied that much, or because the power of a study was reduced by poor design. That isn't the same thing as "this thing doesn't work at all and never will".

    I take
    Vitamin c
    - http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2474/15/9/
    -http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/97/4/800.short
    (but whoa, may need to reconsider, found this: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1063458413010133 )

    Vitamin D3 - Loads of stuff on this. e.g.
    - http://chp.sagepub.com/content/16/3/201.short
    - http://ajs.sagepub.com/content/42/1/27.short
    - http://www.annfammed.org/content/10/6/547.short
    - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18689393

    bromelain
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15841258

    curcumin (turmeric)
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23281076
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23184090

    glucosamine sulphate (not hydrochloride, which is the one the recent big trial found ineffective) & msm
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16309928

    omega 3s, plenty on this

    just hedging my bets
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
    Cheers people.

    Interesting 'infographic' there.
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    so you don't trust your DR, but you trust a bunch of random people on MFP ...interesting..
    You may note for my request from citations that I was in fact NOT indicating a particular trust in people on MFP. Could be considered quite the opposite, as it goes ;).
    Studies which I can read myself to understand their credibility, more so.
    Being NHS, doctors also have to consider cost and may not have my interests in a quicker recovery at a heart over being able to spend time and money that may 'deserve' it more.

    As before, my shoulder really isn't THAT bad - it doesn't cause me any problems and is even ok doing indoor bouldering (rock climbing), cavasing and so on. However do want to get to a place I can get back to doing weights without making it worse.
  • coueswhitetail
    coueswhitetail Posts: 309 Member
    Nutritionfacts.org is a great site full of information about diet and disease. It's well researched and the information is presented in video and blog format. Check it out. You can search for most any disease and see if he has provided a summary of the most recent research.
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