Define "healthy" food...
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goddessofawesome wrote: »Proven Fact:soda cause kidney problems and other health issues so how can anyone say that they are healthy while consuming carbonate drinks which comes from Co2? Poison to your body. LOL
LOL Really?
"In the human body, an atom of Carbon is attached to an O2 atom via osmosis in the lungs, as a way to eliminate a waste product. Humans exhale Co2 by the bucket, as do all animals on the planet which breathe air. After which, in a beautifully balanced dance of chemical interactions, trees and other plants take in the Co2 molecule then steal the carbon atom to use in their growth, liberating the Oxygen for some needy animal to inhale. Interestingly, as Co2 concentrations rise, plants get greener, more robust and better able to exchange it for O2."
Yes we exhale carbon dioxide because our body is discarding it as does our body disregard our waste, as trees and plants may breathe carbon dioxide it is poisonous to humans it's simple chemistry fact, if a human consistently breathes in carbon dioxide the human will die. How do you not know this ? all I stated was that co2 is bad for the human body not the rest of the earth. Lol
are you a plant because I guess if you are plant then yes carbon dioxide is healthy otherwise maybe you need some comprehension skills before you start quoting on stuff and maybe my grammar needs work but that's life, anyways you go ahead and think that carbon dioxide is healthy for humans because like I stated it's poisonous to humans and that's all I stated I never said it was bad for trees plants grass etc0 -
goddessofawesome wrote: »goddessofawesome wrote: »
Yeast, azodicarbonamide, dough conditioner, gluten, bleach and many other things i can not even pronounce!! Different matter if your making it at home but..................Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Lasmartchika wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »The issue is that the OP asked about healthy foods yet you are talking about a healthy diet. I get your point, but you are really mixing topics.
Yeah these are two topics all mushed into one... But I'll bite.
1)
Healthy foods: Meats, vegetables, fruits, breads, nuts, dairy.
Junk food: Chips, candy, soda, cookies, donuts, etc.
2)
Now, are they bad? NO. Will I stop eating them? NO. Do I make it fit into my day? HELL YEAH.
That is all. :drinker:
Bread is not healthy in terms of ingredients
How so?
Really depends on the bread you're buying.
EX: Ezekiel Sprouted Bread ingredients: Organic Sprouted Wheat, Filtered Water, Organic Sprouted Barley, Organic Sprouted Millet, Organic Malted Barley, Organic Sprouted Lentils, Organic Sprouted Soybeans, Organic Sprouted Spelt, Fresh Yeast, Organic Wheat Gluten, Sea Salt.
So . . .how are those ingredients bad?
There are a lot of breads out there that don't have the ingredients you listed.
These breads still have all the other added ingredients!! A massive process goes into it!!
And you know this because you work at the bread factory?
And if you make your own bread you're still using yeast and gluten so according to what you say about bread home made is still bad. According to you.
What's wrong with yeast and gluten?0 -
Not sure who is worse or more annoying the hysterical "sugar is the devil" crowd or the "ermagerd processed, chemicalz, toxins" in the food hypochondriacs.0
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prattiger65 wrote: »goddessofawesome wrote: »
I agree with this and I try to do the same. When I go to the store I pretty much perimeter shop and only go down other aisles if I need certain things -- coffee, tea, olive oil etc.
What I consider "unhealthy" someone else might not and vice versa.
I'm just blown away by the amount of people who actually care.
That's pretty much how I do it too.
And I am surprised by how many people care! I just signed up to mfp, and want to learn more about nutrition and whatnot, it's interesting to me. But then this thread is insane and I'm wondering if I'm in over my head here lol. It's fun to read though, like a car crash
This thread took a pretty negative tone early on. And I'm not one to usually say that. Car crash, indeed. LOL.
There are some hot button topics, clean eating, healthy/unhealthy, cleanses, detox, sugar etc. People are passionate, but it is mostly just a vigorous debate. Jump in, the water is fine! Don't take anything personally.
Oh I'm not taking anything personally. I've been around for quite a while. This is nothing new. I was responded to someone who was new.
Yikes, double quote. Sorry.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »goddessofawesome wrote: »
Yeast, azodicarbonamide, dough conditioner, gluten, bleach and many other things i can not even pronounce!! Different matter if your making it at home but..................Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Lasmartchika wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »The issue is that the OP asked about healthy foods yet you are talking about a healthy diet. I get your point, but you are really mixing topics.
Yeah these are two topics all mushed into one... But I'll bite.
1)
Healthy foods: Meats, vegetables, fruits, breads, nuts, dairy.
Junk food: Chips, candy, soda, cookies, donuts, etc.
2)
Now, are they bad? NO. Will I stop eating them? NO. Do I make it fit into my day? HELL YEAH.
That is all. :drinker:
Bread is not healthy in terms of ingredients
How so?
Really depends on the bread you're buying.
EX: Ezekiel Sprouted Bread ingredients: Organic Sprouted Wheat, Filtered Water, Organic Sprouted Barley, Organic Sprouted Millet, Organic Malted Barley, Organic Sprouted Lentils, Organic Sprouted Soybeans, Organic Sprouted Spelt, Fresh Yeast, Organic Wheat Gluten, Sea Salt.
So . . .how are those ingredients bad?
There are a lot of breads out there that don't have the ingredients you listed.
Well, most of them have gluten and yeast, although of course there are exceptions.
I think of the ingredients of basic bread as flour, water, yeast. All else is elective. But some people think flour (and I guess yeast, didn't know that) is unhealthy.
Yeah, my mom has to avoid yeast for her autoimmune disease. Which means that crescent rolls out of a can are healthier for her than many homemade breads.
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Don't forget people, baking soda is also toxic!
/sarcasm0 -
Yeast, azodicarbonamide, dough conditioner, gluten, bleach and many other things i can not even pronounce!! Different matter if your making it at home but..................Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Lasmartchika wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »The issue is that the OP asked about healthy foods yet you are talking about a healthy diet. I get your point, but you are really mixing topics.
Yeah these are two topics all mushed into one... But I'll bite.
1)
Healthy foods: Meats, vegetables, fruits, breads, nuts, dairy.
Junk food: Chips, candy, soda, cookies, donuts, etc.
2)
Now, are they bad? NO. Will I stop eating them? NO. Do I make it fit into my day? HELL YEAH.
That is all. :drinker:
Bread is not healthy in terms of ingredients
How so?
why would it matter?
Just when I thought we were slowing down here...
heh- nope- it's lunch break folks- let's get it fired up in here.
Very curious as to purchased bread with the same ingredients as someone who makes bread at home is inherently worse.
I mean- I think carbs are the debil- so I don't eat either anyway- you know- child of the 2000's- carbs made me fat.
(Just kidding for all of you who don't know me)
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I had some healthy coffee that I utterly ruined with honey, and biscotti.0
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These breads still have all the other added ingredients!! A massive process goes into it!!
They don't have other ingredients than what is labeled. I know a lot of brands of organic bread that have very short ingredient lists. So I think that as long as you're mindful, and check, you know what you're getting.
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Look, the point is that a food is neither healthy nor unhealthy if you consider it in a vacuum (assuming it's not contaminated, etc). You can classify it as nutrient-dense or not, you can sub-classify it in regards to density of specific nutrients and that all makes sense.
If you have no dietary context, calling a food either healthy or unhealthy does not make sense. Obviously you can do it, because people do, but that doesn't make the classification meaningful to anyone but the person who makes it.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
OK - so if I hit my macros/micors and calorie goals for the day, but I got 500-600 calories from ice cream and cookies is that then not healthy? Because empty calories??? (whatever those are)
This line alone shows just how little you actually know about what you're talking about.
Please feel free to enlighten us.
The point trying to be made is that you can only absorb so many micronutrients. If you eat a majority of nutrient dense food (or at least sufficient amounts), and fill the rest with pizza, chocolate, ice cream, or whatever, how is that bad.
*And keep in mind that this thread is being argued by people who eat a hell of a lot more than 1200 calories a day. It's hard to fit in treats when you only eat a little every day. When your goal is 2000 calories or even 3500 calories, you can easily work in more calorie dense food and still get proper nutrition.
"Empty calories (whatever that is)" was the line I was going at.
The credibility of the original post was lost when the OP admitted she doesn't know what an empty calorie is.
I don't know either.
Please enlighten me/us.0 -
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SingRunTing wrote: »goldthistime wrote: »Okay, I will be the one to give you the definition you want to debate. I define healthy food as nutrient dense foods, with limited amounts of salt, sugar and fat. Meaning vegetables, lean meats, fruits and whole grains. I define junk as nutrient sparse food with lots of salt sugar or fat. Meaning chips, cheezies, candy, donuts, onion rings etc.
What did fat ever do to you? It's an important macro nutrient.
Absolutely.
In fact, it's easily in the top three of important macronutrients.0 -
Not sure who is worse or more annoying the hysterical "sugar is the devil" crowd or the "ermagerd processed, chemicalz, toxins" in the food hypochondriacs.
But there are ingredients we use in the U.S. that are banned in other countries because they've been proven harmful. Does it really make someone a hypochondriac to say 'I don't want to eat that' or 'that is an unhealthy food' simply because it contains known carcinogens, or other toxic chemicals (or ermagerd chemicalz). I don't think it's bad to have a healthy fear of unnatural things in food.0 -
The problem is that health and nutrition cannot be considered or discussed in a vacuum...context and dosage are incredibly important to the discussion. As individual food items are concerned, I do think there are obviously "healthier" choices and lesser choices and I do think that getting overall proper nutrition is very important to one's overall health...but I also think that some Doritos can easily fit into an overall balanced and overwhelmingly "healthful" diet without consequence.
That to me seems to be where people get so hung up...it's like they think if they have a soda that somehow negates the 6-8 servings of vegetables they had earlier or something. Context and dosage, context and dosage....0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
Right. So the question IMO is, once you hit your minimums, what is healthier, more veggies or ice cream?
Apparently, you get extra credit for extra micronutrients.0 -
What?!? There are nine pages already???
*sigh*
Guess I'll stop posting as I go and catch up first.
ETA: Okay, I tried to stop posting as I read...but the temptation was just too strong. Sorry if this goes against anyone's One True Way to Forum™.0 -
I have to agree with "Goldthistime": I define healthy food as nutrient dense foods, with limited amounts of salt, sugar and fat. Meaning vegetables, lean meats, fruits and whole grains. I define junk as nutrient sparse food with lots of salt sugar or fat. Meaning chips, cheezies, candy, donuts, onion rings etc.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »The problem is that health and nutrition cannot be considered or discussed in a vacuum...context and dosage are incredibly important to the discussion. As individual food items are concerned, I do think there are obviously "healthier" choices and lesser choices and I do think that getting overall proper nutrition is very important to one's overall health...but I also think that some Doritos can easily fit into an overall balanced and overwhelmingly "healthful" diet without consequence.
That to me seems to be where people get so hung up...it's like they think if they have a soda that somehow negates the 6-8 servings of vegetables they had earlier or something. Context and dosage, context and dosage....
^^very much so.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »The problem is that health and nutrition cannot be considered or discussed in a vacuum...context and dosage are incredibly important to the discussion. As individual food items are concerned, I do think there are obviously "healthier" choices and lesser choices and I do think that getting overall proper nutrition is very important to one's overall health...but I also think that some Doritos can easily fit into an overall balanced and overwhelmingly "healthful" diet without consequence.
That to me seems to be where people get so hung up...it's like they think if they have a soda that somehow negates the 6-8 servings of vegetables they had earlier or something. Context and dosage, context and dosage....
I am with you wolf man..
like I pointed out in my original OP ..if I hit my calorie/micro/macro goal for the day but within that day I had about 400-500 calories of ice cream cookies, etc, does that mean it was unhealthy?? No, it just means that I used those foods to round out my day ...0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »By definition of my nutrition book since I took a class at my college, healthy foods have more micro nutrients than the so call junk food "empty calories", foods with no micro nutrients, was what it was called in the book.
Right. So the question IMO is, once you hit your minimums, what is healthier, more veggies or ice cream?
Apparently, you get extra credit for extra micronutrients.
Actually there is a toxic level of too much micro nutrients. Especially for fat soluble vitamins and minerals.
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http://dynamicduotraining.com/ask-the-experts-round-table-discussions/15-nutrition-myths-you-want-to-knowallow-the-experts-to-tell/
Apologies for the copy pasta:
Eric Helms-
The Myth of “Good” and “Bad” Foods
I think one of the most pervasive, and possibly detrimental mind sets is that of seeing foods as either “good” or “bad”. This is a rather seductive way of looking at foods because it is simplistic. Look at a food, identify it as friend or foe, and then go with the “good” option not the “bad” option and you’ll be healthy, fit, lean and sexy! It’s that easy! But of course, that’s not the case.
One of the problems with this mindset is that it fits perfectly into the behavioral paradigm that leads to obesity in the first place; the all or nothing mindset. One thing I find to be a commonality among folks who struggle with weight gain and permanent weight loss, is that they lose the middle ground. They bounce between being “on the diet” and falling off the band wagon and lapsing into cycles of overeating. We have no problem losing weight, we have trouble keeping the weight off. We crash diet and lose 20-30lbs in a few months, and then it all comes back on when we can’t maintain the crash diet approach.
All or nothing Black and white mindsets ignore the concepts of magnitude and frequency which are all important when it comes to long term change. Of course 1g of sugar eaten every 2 weeks will not have the same effect as 100g of sugar eaten daily, but we love to label sugar as “bad”. Even water consumed in massive excess can lead to hyponatremia and death. Sugar is not good or bad, and neither is water, they just are what they are and without attention to magnitude or frequency, labels like “good” or “bad” are misleading.
We tend to be overly reductionist in our approach to nutrition. Originally, we believed fat was the singular cause of the obesity epidemic. When the low fat craze had no impact on preventing the worsening of the obesity epidemic, we went the way of the low carb craze, and folks started consuming fat with abandon. When this didn’t turn the trend of waist expansion around, we decided that it’s not just fat or carbs, the causes are specific types of carbs and fat; specifically sugar, high fructose corn syrup and trans fat are the culprits!
The need to blame singular nutrients highlights the all or nothing, black or white attitude that is in and of itself one of the roots of unhealthy eating behavior and consequently obesity. Again, it comes down to seeking balance. The concept of balance in nutrition is inclusive of the concepts of magnitude and frequency that are needed for long term lifestyle change. Balance recognizes that it is not the small piece of chocolate that you had that wasn’t on your diet plan that was the problem, it was the carton of ice cream you had afterward!
The meal plan foods are “good”, and a piece of chocolate is “bad” and once you’d crossed over from “good” to “bad”, you said: “Screw it! I already blew it, I might as well just have cookie dough ice cream until I puke!” That is the all too common result of the all or nothing mindset in action. On the other hand, a balanced approach realizes that a small piece of chocolate is only ~100 calories, and will make a minuscule difference in terms of weight loss over time. In fact, a balanced meal plan might even allow for a daily range of calories, so that the following day could be reduced by 100 calories. Even more shockingly, a balanced meal plan might even include a piece of chocolate (blasphemy I know)!
There are truly VERY few foods that are actively bad for you. Most of the foods that we identify as “bad”, are simply low or devoid of micro-nutrients, minerals, fiber and other things like phytochemicals and protein that can be beneficial for you. These foods only become a problem when they occur frequently and with enough magnitude (frequency and magnitude!) to replace a significant enough portion of your diet that you become deficient in beneficial nutrients.
Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food! It’s not as though we have a health food critic living in our esophagus that has a control box that he switches from “get leaner and healthier” to “get fatter and unhealthier” every time he spots “good” or “bad” food. Thus, a healthy diet should be inclusionary vs. exclusionary; focused around including healthy foods, not excluding “unhealthy” foods. Meet your nutrient needs, and feel free to eat things that you may have traditionally seen as “bad” in moderation; so that you are still meeting your allotted caloric intake for your weight loss goals. Don’t make the mistake of looking at foods as “good” or “bad!” Good diets can include “bad” foods and bad diets can include “good” foods. Don’t get too caught up with what you have for lunch, because it is not a singular choice that will determine the success of your health and fitness goals, it is the balanced lifestyle you commit to long term!0 -
tiffaniedemayo wrote: »I have to agree with "Goldthistime": I define healthy food as nutrient dense foods, with limited amounts of salt, sugar and fat. Meaning vegetables, lean meats, fruits and whole grains. I define junk as nutrient sparse food with lots of salt sugar or fat. Meaning chips, cheezies, candy, donuts, onion rings etc.
ok - so here is the question ...if you had a diet containing both and hit your goals does that mean that buy eating chips, cheezies, or whatever combination thereof then makes your day "unhealthy"?0 -
goddessofawesome wrote: »Proven Fact:soda cause kidney problems and other health issues so how can anyone say that they are healthy while consuming carbonate drinks which comes from Co2? Poison to your body. LOL
LOL Really?
"In the human body, an atom of Carbon is attached to an O2 atom via osmosis in the lungs, as a way to eliminate a waste product. Humans exhale Co2 by the bucket, as do all animals on the planet which breathe air. After which, in a beautifully balanced dance of chemical interactions, trees and other plants take in the Co2 molecule then steal the carbon atom to use in their growth, liberating the Oxygen for some needy animal to inhale. Interestingly, as Co2 concentrations rise, plants get greener, more robust and better able to exchange it for O2."
Yes we exhale carbon dioxide because our body is discarding it as does our body discards our waste, as trees and plants may breathe carbon dioxide it is poisonous to humans it's simple chemistry fact, if a human consistently breathes in carbon dioxide the human will die. How do you not know this ? all I stated was that co2 is bad for the human body not the rest of the earth. Lol
Lol. Excess CO2 is bad but CO2, per se, isn't bad. Bicarbonate is a major element of the process used to keep the right pH of our blood, the function of our bones and liver. It isn't a poison. It's excess is problematic.
Without CO2, blood regulation to tissue does not work properly, breathing doesn't occur.0
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