Counting fruits and veggies?
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I actually did a couple of test days comparing my intake on MFP and WW (using a friend's point reference) I found that it is quite easy to go OVER my MFP calorie allotment while still being UNDER the WW point allowance.
The "fruit and vegetables are free" idea was based on the assumption that people need to be incentivised to eat them instead of crap. Guess what...people who like fruits and veggies can get pudge, too....overeating fruit and veg (hard to do with veg, but fruit ramps it up!) lying and saying they are "free" is not useful.
I regularly eat a whole grapefruit with my breakfast...that's 106 calories. Hardly negligible, especially when you throw in an apple for a snack (about 80 calories) and an orange (another 80 cal) with lunch and a bowl of blueberries and strawberries (roughly another 80 for a reasonable mixed bowl) as dessert after dinner. That's a total of 300+ calories from "free" fruit alone -- as much as an entire meal's worth of calories for most women's deficit plans.1 -
Weight watchers is designed to give you a lower daily amount of points so that have a couple of pieces of fruit and veg won't put you over. MFP is not designed that way. MFP gives you a total amount of calories for the day. Track everything! Two/three pieces of fruit can easily equal a chocolate bar.0
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LorinaLynn wrote: »I've never done WW, but from what I remember hearing, the points equal a very low calorie goal. So when you're already very low calorie, it's not a problem to add a couple hundred extra a day from fruits or vegetables.
But if you're doing calorie counting, count them.
This. The reason they made fruit and veg 0 points is to encourage people to choose them more often. The actual caloric intake on 26 points (with no fruit or veg) is about 1000-1200 calories. They have basically built in an extra 150-300 calorie cushion for the fruit and veggies (and only the first 3 servings of fruit are 0 points). It helps to teach members to use fruit and vegetables over other, richer foods at least a few times a day in order to feel fuller while staying within their points. It's a behaviour modification tool; nothing to do with calories.
Long story short - for counting calories, everything counts.1 -
I really have to. I am really obsessive about logging things correctly and I STILL constantly second guess myself. It's a good thing the scale moves from time to time to let me know I'm doing it right.0
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lmcgowenscott wrote: »As I recall, WW does count fruit, although it is only 1 or 2 pts, depending on the fruit. Veggies are the rare ones that don't count, and even then some do. Something to keep in mind: one WW point is roughly 50 calories, so anything under 50 calories won't count there, which is why they give slightly higher points to some foods. And WW points only take into consideration calories, fat and fiber. They aren't accounting for sugars, carbs, etc. Those are important things as well. And, when you take the amount of points you are allowed on WW and multiply them by 50, you'll actually see that your calories are roughly the same as they are for MFP (give or take another 100 or so). It's important to count everything you ingest!
They have a new system, "Points Plus". Most things now cost more points, but like the OP said, fruits (at least the first 3 per day) and veggies are now 0 points.
You can no longer calculate the points manually, at least not last time I saw their program. It's a black box system; you can buy calculators or use their online tools, but you can't just calculate them yourself anymore. It's a much more robust calculation (according to them), but it's proprietary.0 -
MakePeasNotWar wrote: »0
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The bowl of fruit I have on most days for lunch comes in at 200ish calories. So yeah,; I have to count it.0
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WW gives you a very low calorie count with the expectation you'll eat a lot of fruit and veggies to boost you up to what you should be eating. MFP gives you an amount assuming you'll log everything. If you only pick and choose your favorite parts of programs and mix them all together don't be surprised when the scale doesn't show what you want.0
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When I count, I count every calorie, because I see no reason to bother counting if the total won't be somewhat accurate.MakePeasNotWar wrote: »lmcgowenscott wrote: »As I recall, WW does count fruit, although it is only 1 or 2 pts, depending on the fruit. Veggies are the rare ones that don't count, and even then some do. Something to keep in mind: one WW point is roughly 50 calories, so anything under 50 calories won't count there, which is why they give slightly higher points to some foods. And WW points only take into consideration calories, fat and fiber. They aren't accounting for sugars, carbs, etc. Those are important things as well. And, when you take the amount of points you are allowed on WW and multiply them by 50, you'll actually see that your calories are roughly the same as they are for MFP (give or take another 100 or so). It's important to count everything you ingest!
They have a new system, "Points Plus". Most things now cost more points, but like the OP said, fruits (at least the first 3 per day) and veggies are now 0 points.
You can no longer calculate the points manually, at least not last time I saw their program. It's a black box system; you can buy calculators or use their online tools, but you can't just calculate them yourself anymore. It's a much more robust calculation (according to them), but it's proprietary.
I don't get it. What are they keeping secret?
I've always thought their plan sounded sensible and easy, but that wasn't the real draw.
I've often thought about joining for the personal aspect, weighing in, chatting with others who lose, sharing tips, fat jokes, successes...I think about it more all the time.
I've heard some really bad things about WW, though: unreliable staff, cancelled meetings, poorly-moderated online forums.
What else is wrong?0 -
I never did WW, and not counting fruits and veggies seems goofy to me, but frankly so does using points instead of actual calories.
For me it's important to count fruits and veggies for two main reasons. First, I eat a lot of them, so they make up a significant number of calories. Since I'd like to be able to use my diary to calculate my actual maintenance calories, it's important that it be accurate and not ignore a substantial portion of what I eat. Second, I also think it's important to be able to use my diary to examine what food choices result in me feeling well and staying on plan more easily or doing better with fitness activities and so on.
Behind the "should I log fruits and veggies" question seems to be the idea that logging something makes you less likely to eat it and not logging makes you more likely, and I don't think of it that way. I like adding the calories from fruits and vegetables and other foods since I think they are positive choices that build an overall healthy diet. I don't see logging merely as about keeping calories low (and indeed if my calories are too low I seek out something else to add to my diet that day).0 -
I'm going to go against the crowd here. I find it tedious entering everything I eat, which I know isn't great, but I do. To stay motivated, I set my calorie count to lose two pounds a week, and the I don't count the fruits and vegetables. I know I won't lose two pounds a week this way, but I am losing weight still and I am still motivated to control my portions and eat more fruits and vegetables. Best case scenario I would count everything, but in reality I burn out doing that way. I suggest doing what works for you, and if that doesn't work, then try something new. Probably not a popular opinion, but my opinion no the less2
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jennavieveg wrote: »Do you guys think it's really necessary to count calories for fruit and veggies?
I like how in WW most fruit and veggies are free. Obviously I'd still count some (corn, potatoes). But apples, oranges, grapefruit, carrots, celery, cucumber?
What do you think?
Absolutely count them. The average banana has the same calories as a can of pop, and the same can be said for other produce like avocados and bell peppers.0 -
I think if you're happy with your progress amd you're not counting them then it's fine. If the time comes when your progress slows and you want tp tighten up your logging you can start tracking them then.
Whatever works for you is the right thing to do.0 -
you bite it you write it! It's till has calories, carbs, sugar etc0
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If I stop logging fruit and vegetables, I start developing this weird mental thing where I stop seeing them as "real" food. Like if I eat some carrots, an apple and a salad, it doesn't really count because they're healthy and therefore don't count, so I can have an extra snack. That gets me in huge trouble, so I log every gram that goes into my mouth, even if it's lettuce.1
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Necro thread, but since I can hit 600 calorie or more a day in veg/fruit I definitely factor them in.1
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One good sized apple can be 100 cals and if I'm trying to stay around 1500 that's way too large a percentage of my day. Most veg generally isn't so bad but I eat a lot of it, so no, that would be a terrible idea for me.0
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Forget what WW ever taught you as it has no bearing on real nutrition. It doesn't work in the real world of food.
Log the calories.3 -
OliveGirl128 wrote: »Necro thread, but since I can hit 600 calorie or more a day in veg/fruit I definitely factor them in.
Our conversation a day or two ago inspired me to crave a smoothie this morning, and the one I made involved an apricot, an avocado (tiny one, granted), kale, and half of a huge cucumber. That's a LOT of calories not to count.1 -
Yep. Fruit especially is higher in calories than you might think, so it's easy to pass your count with them. But even some veggies have a pretty decent amount of calories that can throw you off if you aren't paying attention.0
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