Rest days during bulking phase

leanmuscleway
leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
edited November 10 in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
I'm interested in some guidance. I'm at the beginning of a bulking phase that i'm planning to finish end of March. I usually workout 5-6 times a week as follows:

1)Chest/Back split
2)Shoulders and abs
3) Bi's and Tri's
4) Chest/Back split
5) Legs
6) Bi's Tri's and abs

So in the average week i usually get one rest day, probably one in 4 weeks i would get 2 rest days missing our the 6) bi's tri's and arms workout.

Some have said to me every 3 weeks i should take a full week rest either totally off weights or just doing very high reps, light weight sets.

As the bulk is relatively short (Jan to end of March) i want to get the best i can out of it.

I'm happy on nutrition having followed IIFYM for a while now and hitting around 3200 calories a day as they suggest, but wanting advice on this too if anyone see's anything i should adjust.
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Replies

  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    How long have you been lifting for?

    Are you doing any of the 'Big' compound lifts (squat, bench, deads) at a high % of your 1RM?
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    Thanks for the reply.

    i have been lifting for around 6 years although only seriously for 2 yrs. Typically on a chest/back day it would include bent over rows, wide pull ups, cable low rows and then various isolation rows along with barbell/dumbell bench press and various cable and machine isolation for chest also.

    Legs - squats, deadlifts, leg extensions, hamstring curls.

    on any of the above that are compounds i usually do around 6 sets with set 3 and 4 being at the sort of weight i can get 4-5 reps, and sets 5-6 dropping the weight and going up to 12-15 reps.

    i often use the isolation exercises as a superset the the compounds - don't know if this is wise!?
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    edited January 2015
    I would generally not recommend supersetting with compounds due to fatique impacting the compounds.

    The need for deloads/rest weeks are very individual to be honest - for people that include heavy compounds (as its more stress on your CNS) some do better with scheduling them in once every say 4 weeks, and others do fine only doing them say every 8 weeks. Personally, I am usually good for about 6 weeks and then my hip flexors start telling me to slow the eff down lol. As you are doing a split however, you have more recovery time, so you could be fine with longer.

    If I were you, I would schedule one deload (or a full break) for one week in the middle but play it by ear - if you start feeling beat up - then just do one earlier.

    Edited for typos
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    Thanks very much - that sounds good.
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  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    Looks like it's pretty good, I would add deadlifts to one of the back days since you are underworking your lower body in relation to upper but otherwise you've likely been lifting long enough for that type of split.
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    ok - i will do that, thanks. Only reason i havent before is because if i did deadlift on Monday with the back they wtill hurt from Fridays legs session and if i do them with thursday back they hurt for my friday leg session.

    How much do i need to worry about DOMS?
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    Out of curiosity, why only one leg day and multiple upper body days?
  • dieselbyte
    dieselbyte Posts: 733 Member
    LolBroScience wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, why only one leg day and multiple upper body days?

    Yeah, was wondering also. Legs are part of your body lol...

    Also, rest is key to build muscle. IMO, 6 days a week is kinda overkill, especially if you are throwing 2 days in for bi's and tri's. As @Sarauk2sf stated, rest days are personal. However, if you center your training around compound lifts, there really isn't a need for 2 days dedicated to bi's and tri's, and 1 day dedicated to just shoulders.

    Just my opinion though...

  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    LolBroScience wrote: »
    Out of curiosity, why only one leg day and multiple upper body days?

    ^^I was wondering also. I would drop of of the bi's/tri's day, add another leg day (even of not doing deads on that day) and shuffle the days around a little so as to minimize crossover.
  • Nolan1009
    Nolan1009 Posts: 36 Member
    What stood out to me is 4 push days in a row - chest/shoulder/tri/chest. Those muscles all get used in pushing movements to some degree so would spread them out more. For me personally, I don't do chest/shoulders on back to back days (sometimes on the same day though)
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  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    great ok - so leave the deadlifts out of the back days and make day 6 the 2nd leg day of the week. Split the compounds (squat and deadlift) with isolation or mix them up?

    i need a leg press really but cant afford one right now - i train at home.
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    Nolan1009 wrote: »
    What stood out to me is 4 push days in a row - chest/shoulder/tri/chest. Those muscles all get used in pushing movements to some degree so would spread them out more. For me personally, I don't do chest/shoulders on back to back days (sometimes on the same day though)

    interesting - i can easily change round the order of my workouts or even what body parts i put together each day. My reason for doing it like this is i have felt my shoulders are lacking so i have been giving these their 'own' day to get enough sets in. If i add them onto a push/chest day i have felt in the past i don't work them hard enough as i only get 60 minutes max per workout.

    should i then do:

    1)Back/bi's
    2)Chest/tri's
    3) Legs
    4) Chest/shoulders
    5) Back/abs
    6)Legs

    the suggestions so far are good - thanks.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    leanmuscleway wrote: »
    great ok - so leave the deadlifts out of the back days and make day 6 the 2nd leg day of the week. Split the compounds (squat and deadlift) with isolation or mix them up?

    i need a leg press really but cant afford one right now - i train at home.

    For leg day, I would do squats, deads, then your less taxing compounds and then any iso work. You can mix up the rep ranges for those two days so you have a hyper day and a strength day for squats and deads. You may want to just do deads on the first leg day and drop for the 2nd - depending on recovery. It can get hard on the back, depending what you do on back day.

    Do you do bulgarian split squats? - they are a good one to throw in and I would imagine that you would be able to do them with what you have.
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    Do you do bulgarian split squats? - they are a good one to throw in and I would imagine that you would be able to do them with what you have.[/quote]

    i have never done them seriously or weighted no - i will look them up and add them in.
  • Nolan1009
    Nolan1009 Posts: 36 Member
    I've done it both ways with chest/shoulders (push day) and separate chest/tri and shoulder day. I guess I'm not as concerned with chest as a guy would be so I don't do as many exercises for it and I'm okay with doing it once per week therefore this advice may or may not work for you- I was doing chest once per week but I really like benching more than once per week so on one push day I do more chest- bench, incline bench, dips w/ some shoulder and tricep after and on the second push day I only do bench for chest and do more shoulder work.

    Also +1 for Bulgarian split squats :smiley:
  • Nolan1009
    Nolan1009 Posts: 36 Member
    And actually I should have mentioned I alternate chest/shoulder exercise to some extent ( as opposed to all chest exercise then move to shoulder) for example today I started with bench then went to OHP, those are my compound lower rep movements, then I went to incline press which I do in a higher rep range.
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    Thanks Nolan1009. That's really useful and interesting.
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    Bit of a different subject but can anyone give me a steer:

    i can only fit my workouts in between 3.30am and 4.30am on the 5 weekdays but can get one in around 8am saturday. For my early workouts i struggle to eat anything before it and doing heavy compounds (as i'm trying to bulk) by half way through my workout i'm pretty shot and i do get to the end of it but i dont feel i'm working to my full potential for the full 60 minutes. I do have a preworkout before i start but i dont feel it makes a huge difference although does help a bit.

    I have started eating fruit, either a bannana or some dried mango about half way through to give me some fast carbs to keep the effort i put in to maximum. Is this a good idea - are there better carbs i should have? I would buy carb shake (dextrose or maltodextrin) but i cant really afford it - is it much better?
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    My last meal before the workout would be around 8pm and would be a protein shake and 100g oats and honey.
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    leanmuscleway wrote: »
    Bit of a different subject but can anyone give me a steer:

    i can only fit my workouts in between 3.30am and 4.30am on the 5 weekdays but can get one in around 8am saturday. For my early workouts i struggle to eat anything before it and doing heavy compounds (as i'm trying to bulk) by half way through my workout i'm pretty shot and i do get to the end of it but i dont feel i'm working to my full potential for the full 60 minutes. I do have a preworkout before i start but i dont feel it makes a huge difference although does help a bit.

    I have started eating fruit, either a bannana or some dried mango about half way through to give me some fast carbs to keep the effort i put in to maximum. Is this a good idea - are there better carbs i should have? I would buy carb shake (dextrose or maltodextrin) but i cant really afford it - is it much better?

    Fruits are fine to eat prior/during. Or an energy drink. Or a pop-tart =)
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    Thanks! I have a wheat intolerance which keeps me away from a lot of nice fast carbs :-(
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    leanmuscleway wrote: »
    My last meal before the workout would be around 8pm and would be a protein shake and 100g oats and honey.

    One thing to note - if you train fasted you may want to try to get a protein heavy meal within a shortish time (no need to slam a protein shake as soon as you put down your last weight), but do not leave it to long. To be safe (and to help with energy as well), I would have some milk and/or a protein shake prior to/during your workout. Its really a CYA than a necessity.
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    yes - i do try and have a shake and oats/blueberries within 30mins - 1hr.

    So eating fruit during then doesn't have the wrong affect on my insulin? (I'm not actually sure what affect i want to have on it though - do i want a spike or a low?) trying to learn :\:)
  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
    leanmuscleway wrote: »
    yes - i do try and have a shake and oats/blueberries within 30mins - 1hr.

    So eating fruit during then doesn't have the wrong affect on my insulin? (I'm not actually sure what affect i want to have on it though - do i want a spike or a low?) trying to learn :\:)

    I would not worry about insulin in this context. Work your food around what gives you the best energy.

    Layne Norton has a vlog that discusses the futility of trying to manipulate at the acute level. Will link when I find it .
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    thanks very much.
  • sjohnson__1
    sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
    Sarauk2sf wrote: »
    leanmuscleway wrote: »
    Bit of a different subject but can anyone give me a steer:

    i can only fit my workouts in between 3.30am and 4.30am on the 5 weekdays but can get one in around 8am saturday. For my early workouts i struggle to eat anything before it and doing heavy compounds (as i'm trying to bulk) by half way through my workout i'm pretty shot and i do get to the end of it but i dont feel i'm working to my full potential for the full 60 minutes. I do have a preworkout before i start but i dont feel it makes a huge difference although does help a bit.

    I have started eating fruit, either a bannana or some dried mango about half way through to give me some fast carbs to keep the effort i put in to maximum. Is this a good idea - are there better carbs i should have? I would buy carb shake (dextrose or maltodextrin) but i cant really afford it - is it much better?

    Fruits are fine to eat prior/during. Or an energy drink. Or a pop-tart =)

    I would highly encourage you to grab some fast acting carbs before your workout, and continue to eat the fruit (banana) or yes, a poptart, mid workout if you can't eat all that much. Quick oats work great, and don't sit on the stomach that bad. But a fasted/mostly fasted heavy compound workout is tough. Very tough.
  • leanmuscleway
    leanmuscleway Posts: 72 Member
    Interesting. Sure i could probably manage an oats n honey bar along with the pre-workout i take. Out of interest i looked at your profile - we are pretty close in height and i notice you are aiming to bulk to 195lbs - what are you currently? I am 6'2 and currently weight 183lbs - i am also currently bulking and was planning on ending the bulk end of march.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    If you want a fast acting carb gummies are as good as anything for pre and post.
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