Ideal Heart Rate

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I have been exercising for years, but have not been completely educated on what my heart rate should be for fat burn. I wear a fitness watch during cardio and strengthening, and have just recently been told that ideally, the heart rate zone that is the best for fat burning is between 130-150. I was always under the impression that the higher the heart rate (during exercise), the higher the calories burned, the better the work out. A fitness instructor told me that more calories burned means you can have more calories in the day, but does not mean fat burn. My Question: What is truly the best way to burn fat, i.e, for lose weight while exercising. I realize diet has a lot more to do with it than exercise does, but should I not push my self as hard to bring my heart rate up (>160) while doing cardio, or just focus on the end #, which is calories burned? Thanks

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  • bos10fit
    bos10fit Posts: 80 Member
    edited January 2015
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    HIIT (high intensity interval training) is a great way to burn calories and increase cardiovascular production. This would be getting your heart rate to 90% of it's maximum then recovering and doing it again.

    Your maximum heart rate is 220 - your age.

    Now, ACE (American Counsel on Exercise) just released in their personal training magazine an article that HIIT can be counterproductive if you don't give yourself 48 hour recovery time. With your HR that high, you're relying on more muscle to fuel your cardio activity so without proper recovery, you're going to break down the muscle tissue.

    That doesn't mean you can't do LSS (long steady state) when in recovery of HIIT.

    My LSS workouts I like to stay at around 70% of my maximum.

    Think of it as like training for a marathon. Your long steady training runs you want to be a slower pace (if you're running at more than 60-70% of your heart rate, then lactic acid can build up).

    Then you do intervals to increase your speed!! (HIIT).

    Long, slow runs, easy or recovery runs
    Training in this zone improves the ability of your heart to pump blood and improve the muscles’ ability to utilize oxygen. The body becomes more efficient at feeding the working muscles, and learns to metabolise fat as a source of fuel.
    60-70% 139 – 152

    Aerobic zone or "target heart rate zone"

    Most effective for overall cardiovascular fitness. Increases your cardio-respitory capacity: that is, the your ability to transport oxygenated blood to the muscle cells and carbon dioxide away from the cells. Also effective for increasing overall muscle strength.
    70-80% 152 – 166

    Anaerobic zone

    The point at which the body cannot remove lactic acid as quickly as it is produced is called the lactate threshold or anaerobic threshold. It generally occurs at about 80-88% of the Heart Rate Reserve. Training in this zone helps to increase the lactate threshold, which improves performance. Training in this zone is hard: your muscles are tired, your breathing is heavy.
    80-90% 166 – 179

    VO2 max
    "Red line zone"
    You should only train in this zone if you re very fit, and only for very short periods of time. Lactic acid develops quickly as you are operating in oxygen debt to the muscles The value of training in this zone is you can increase your fast twitch muscle fibers which increase speed.
    90-100% 179 – 192

    http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/heart-rate-calculators/hrzone

    I apply this to my every day cardio whether I'm running or any other type of cardio exercise.

    I have completed a marathon & half marathon too and this was my savior.
  • nadiha
    nadiha Posts: 27 Member
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    Thank you so much for this information. I have been successfully able to lose weight but I have since plateaued so I am trying to find a way to "restart" my metabolism. The instructors that teach the classes that I take are very knowledgeable, but short on time. I was lucky that I had some time before class to have the discussion about the heart rate. I will incorporate HIIT, which the closest they have at the Y's I go to is Boot camp and allow myself a few days of recovery so that i don't break down muscle tissue.
  • bos10fit
    bos10fit Posts: 80 Member
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    Yep. You can still do recovery cardio the day after HIIT. I pare my HIIT with core. The next day in my cycle is rest then back to upper followed by legs. I get 4 LSS and 2 HIIT
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    220-age is a woefully inaccurate estimate of max HR. The "fat burning zone" does exist ... but it is a HR range where a greater percentage of the calories used comes from fat than from other sources while higher intensity burns both more total calories, and more fat, than exercise in that zone.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
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    220-age is a woefully inaccurate estimate of max HR. The "fat burning zone" does exist ... but it is a HR range where a greater percentage of the calories used comes from fat than from other sources while higher intensity burns both more total calories, and more fat, than exercise in that zone.


    This.
    Heart rate zone training for the purpose of fat loss is pointless.
  • bos10fit
    bos10fit Posts: 80 Member
    edited January 2015
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    220-age is a woefully inaccurate estimate of max HR. The "fat burning zone" does exist ... but it is a HR range where a greater percentage of the calories used comes from fat than from other sources while higher intensity burns both more total calories, and more fat, than exercise in that zone.

    Oh geez. Where are your sources?

    http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/on-fitness/2009/03/03/the-fat-burning-zone-a-fitness-myth-debunked

    AND how do you measure max HR?

    YES there is a formula. YES it is complicated.

    YES... but in theory, 220 - Age gives a great guideline
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
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    bos10fit wrote: »
    220-age is a woefully inaccurate estimate of max HR. The "fat burning zone" does exist ... but it is a HR range where a greater percentage of the calories used comes from fat than from other sources while higher intensity burns both more total calories, and more fat, than exercise in that zone.

    Oh geez. Where are your sources?

    http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/on-fitness/2009/03/03/the-fat-burning-zone-a-fitness-myth-debunked

    AND how do you measure max HR?

    Find your resting heart rate as soon as you wake up. Do this by counting your pulse for one minute while still in bed. Average your heart rate over three mornings to obtain your average resting heart rate (RHR). Add the three readings together and divide by three to get the RHR. For example, (62 + 65 + 63) / 3 = 63

    YES... but in theory, 220 - Age gives a great guideline

    Your own article supports what he said
    "Explanation: Many aerobic exercise programs and videos feature low-intensity workouts purporting to maximize fat burning. The argument is that low-intensity aerobic training will allow your body to use more fat as an energy source, thereby accelerating the loss of body fat. While it is true that a higher proportion of calories burned during low-intensity exercise come from fat (about 60 percent as opposed to approximately 35 percent from high-intensity programs), high-intensity exercise still burns more calories from fat in the final analysis."
  • bos10fit
    bos10fit Posts: 80 Member
    edited January 2015
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    But the point is, is that there is NO SPECIFIC ZONE.

    How about this:
    http://www.builtlean.com/2013/04/01/fat-burning-zone-myth/
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    bos10fit wrote: »
    220-age is a woefully inaccurate estimate of max HR. The "fat burning zone" does exist ... but it is a HR range where a greater percentage of the calories used comes from fat than from other sources while higher intensity burns both more total calories, and more fat, than exercise in that zone.

    Oh geez. Where are your sources?

    http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/on-fitness/2009/03/03/the-fat-burning-zone-a-fitness-myth-debunked

    AND how do you measure max HR?

    YES there is a formula. YES it is complicated.

    YES... but in theory, 220 - Age gives a great guideline

    If you think math is complicated, I'm glad you're not a trainer I'd work with.
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    220-age is off by about 18 bpm for me (based on actual testing) ... a roughly 10% margin of error right off the bat. If that is a "great guideline" by your standards ... wow.
  • bos10fit
    bos10fit Posts: 80 Member
    edited January 2015
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    bos10fit wrote: »
    220-age is a woefully inaccurate estimate of max HR. The "fat burning zone" does exist ... but it is a HR range where a greater percentage of the calories used comes from fat than from other sources while higher intensity burns both more total calories, and more fat, than exercise in that zone.

    Oh geez. Where are your sources?

    http://health.usnews.com/health-news/blogs/on-fitness/2009/03/03/the-fat-burning-zone-a-fitness-myth-debunked

    AND how do you measure max HR?

    YES there is a formula. YES it is complicated.

    YES... but in theory, 220 - Age gives a great guideline

    If you think math is complicated, I'm glad you're not a trainer I'd work with.

    No, I don't think math is complicated but other people might perhaps.

    If I thought math was complicated, would I be able to pass the MATH part and FORMULA MEMORIZATION of the ACE certification?

    My goal here is to NOT get anyone confused!

    If you asked 3/4 of the people on here to calculate their BMR would they understand that by a formula? No.
  • 3dogsrunning
    3dogsrunning Posts: 27,167 Member
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    bos10fit wrote: »
    But the point is, is that there is NO SPECIFIC ZONE.

    How about this:
    http://www.builtlean.com/2013/04/01/fat-burning-zone-myth/

    Is the zone not 50% of your max capacity?
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    bos10fit wrote: »
    But the point is, is that there is NO SPECIFIC ZONE.

    How about this:
    http://www.builtlean.com/2013/04/01/fat-burning-zone-myth/

    Is the zone not 50% of your max capacity?

    She makes a post specifying zones, then says there is no specific zone. I love when MFP members argue against their own posts.
  • bos10fit
    bos10fit Posts: 80 Member
    edited January 2015
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    bos10fit wrote: »
    But the point is, is that there is NO SPECIFIC ZONE.

    How about this:
    http://www.builtlean.com/2013/04/01/fat-burning-zone-myth/

    Is the zone not 50% of your max capacity?

    She makes a post specifying zones, then says there is no specific zone. I love when MFP members argue against their own posts.

    I said there is no SPECIFIC fat burning zone. There is nothing called fat burning zone.

    Just like there is no such thing as starvation mode but rather adaptive thermogenesis.
  • jakichan
    jakichan Posts: 109 Member
    edited January 2015
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    220-age is a woefully inaccurate estimate of max HR.

    This++. Not the "Fat burning zone", but this.

  • jakichan
    jakichan Posts: 109 Member
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    220-age is off by about 18 bpm for me (based on actual testing) ... a roughly 10% margin of error right off the bat. If that is a "great guideline" by your standards ... wow.

    What testing was done? My doctor offered to order a treadmill test...I figure the point at which they provoke whatever response they want in a treadmill test is a good max...
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
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    bos10fit wrote: »
    bos10fit wrote: »
    But the point is, is that there is NO SPECIFIC ZONE.

    How about this:
    http://www.builtlean.com/2013/04/01/fat-burning-zone-myth/

    Is the zone not 50% of your max capacity?

    She makes a post specifying zones, then says there is no specific zone. I love when MFP members argue against their own posts.

    I said there is no SPECIFIC fat burning zone. There is nothing called fat burning zone.

    Just like there is no such thing as starvation mode but rather adaptive thermogenesis.

    It really does depend which zone model you use, who created it, and when. In some paradigms there are no names at all, just numbers. The basic concepts are older than you.

    jakichan wrote: »
    220-age is off by about 18 bpm for me (based on actual testing) ... a roughly 10% margin of error right off the bat. If that is a "great guideline" by your standards ... wow.

    What testing was done? My doctor offered to order a treadmill test...I figure the point at which they provoke whatever response they want in a treadmill test is a good max...

    The treadmill tests produce a different number than the 220-age ... some other age based formulae produce different numbers as well. The entire concept of HR training is based around a linkage between physical activity exertion level and the corresponding heart rate. Simply saying if you're X years old, so here is your max heart rate based on that one data point ... the math is wrong. You may as well tell people to only drive, run, or cycle a certain speed based on an age based formula.

    For those with a HRM and not wanting to pay a doctor to hook them up to machines there are cycling and running tests to better approximate lactate target heart rate and calculate zones from there ... including those that go above 100% of LTHR.



  • nadiha
    nadiha Posts: 27 Member
    edited January 2015
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    Hi, it's me again... So the personal trainer at the Y gave the 220- age example... Do you think this may have been an idea that started somehow and was lost / modified along the way? There has to be an ideal, if not perfect, heart rate that I should have based on the best way to lose fat. I take Zumba, where I can easily burn >600 calories in an hour, but when i look at my fitness watch, it shows that only, say, 10 minutes of my work out was in fat burn. I take Boot camp and my hear rate does increase during the cardio portion of it, but when I look at my fitness watch after the session is over, it has, say 35 minutes of "fat burn" and 25 minutes of "fitness". Also, my maximum and average heart rate is lower during the boot camp than it is during Zumba. I want an idea of what is the best work out, generally speaking, for weight loss. I guess mixing it up is a good plan too.
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
    edited January 2015
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    You burn more calories and more total fat at a higher intensity. Your HRM does not accurately calculate caloric burn from Zumba. Stop worrying about an "ideal heart rate" (which doesn't exist) and put that effort into working out.