need help wrapping my head around something related to running on a treadmill.

thaylin0 · January 2015

This is long, so if you dont want to read much skip.

So first about me. I am now 6'3 just over 300 lbs. I used to be a good runner, when I was a kid, at sub 6 minute miles although I did not particularly like to just run unless it was tied to a sport.

I have been trying to do it for exercise for a little while now. I started in late November doing 2 miles on the elliptical for lunch. I started in December adding 2 miles before work as well. These are on average 14 minute miles at a resistance of 5 (out of 10), thoughts on that later.

The reason I have not used the treadmill previously is the impact on my knee. Now my knee in general is fine so I think it just needs to build up the muscles again. Normally when I would try the treadmill I would go for a speed of 4 for my resting period and then a 6-6.5 for my jogging period. I would typically have to stop after 1-2 minutes either due to pain or endurance, but typically my knee.

So 2 weeks ago I tried the treadmill again, but this time I skilled the speed of 6 and went straight to 10. I found that during my running periods I could go for 3+ minutes without needing a break, and my knee barely caused me any problems, in fact I never needed to slow down for my knee. My thought is that my height and long legs make me better at the longer strides. In addition longer strides put less impact on the knees since my feet are further out in-front of me when they land and therefore the increasing weight is lessened.

Is there anyone who can verify this?

also it seems a 10 is a 6 minute mile and a 6 is a 10 minute mile.

Also I assume that this is a better way to workout. I was getting decent at the elliptical, but I just could not get much more speed out of it without doing movements that were difficult and awkward, again I think do to my height. IT would be more up down then forward motions.

I would like to eventually try to train for a 5k, half and full marathons if I can keep with it so I am thinking if I can get to running and I am thinking if I can get to continues 30 minutes at a 10 that would work out great..

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

AllanMisner · January 2015

While 10 is technically at 6 minute mile, you’re not running under the normal conditions, so I would equate it with running down hill, which many of us can do at that pace for short periods of times.

There could be something to your theory of stride length affecting the dynamics on your knees, but you might also have lost a few pounds (considering you’ve been training since November or before) and/or with practice are running with better mechanics.

thaylin0 · January 2015

I realize there is no real resistance on the treadmill. I have only lost about 6 lbs since I started as I had some breaks due to the holidays and my mother being in the hospital. But I am not sure that is it. If I do it on a 6 my knees still start to hurt, not to mention this has been the case even when I was 260.

Thanks for your thought though. I would like to build up the endurance to st art street running as well to add that resistance. Once I can get a good solid mile I will start to increase elevation.

shadowofender · January 2015

I don't know about the science of it, but I'm about 6' and had knee issues. I find I can run faster on the treadmill than outside without my knee bothering me because it's low impact. I usually set the incline to 2% to get closer to a running outside sensation in the winter.

That said, I run way slower than you, and I have to think about my strides a lot more. I have tibial torsion and it makes it weird for me to run.

If you prefer the treadmill to ellyptical, that's fine. One isn't necessarily better than the other, but if you prefer one, that's fine.

DavidMartinez2 · January 2015

Is your goal to run fast or to burn calories? While walk/run/walk is great sustained effort at a slower speed will be better. I would recommend doing intervals of fast running/walking recovery once a week. Find a speed you can comfortably run for 30+ minutes and do that for the majority of your runs. If you can transition to running outdoors that will make things easier.

_Waffle_ · January 2015

thaylin0 wrote: »

This is long, so if you dont want to read much skip.

So first about me. I am now 6'3 just over 300 lbs. I used to be a good runner, when I was a kid, at sub 6 minute miles although I did not particularly like to just run unless it was tied to a sport.

I have been trying to do it for exercise for a little while now. I started in late November doing 2 miles on the elliptical for lunch. I started in December adding 2 miles before work as well. These are on average 14 minute miles at a resistance of 5 (out of 10), thoughts on that later.

The reason I have not used the treadmill previously is the impact on my knee. Now my knee in general is fine so I think it just needs to build up the muscles again. Normally when I would try the treadmill I would go for a speed of 4 for my resting period and then a 6-6.5 for my jogging period. I would typically have to stop after 1-2 minutes either due to pain or endurance, but typically my knee.

So 2 weeks ago I tried the treadmill again, but this time I skilled the speed of 6 and went straight to 10. I found that during my running periods I could go for 3+ minutes without needing a break, and my knee barely caused me any problems, in fact I never needed to slow down for my knee. My thought is that my height and long legs make me better at the longer strides. In addition longer strides put less impact on the knees since my feet are further out in-front of me when they land and therefore the increasing weight is lessened.

Is there anyone who can verify this?

also it seems a 10 is a 6 minute mile and a 6 is a 10 minute mile.

Also I assume that this is a better way to workout. I was getting decent at the elliptical, but I just could not get much more speed out of it without doing movements that were difficult and awkward, again I think do to my height. IT would be more up down then forward motions.

I would like to eventually try to train for a 5k, half and full marathons if I can keep with it so I am thinking if I can get to running and I am thinking if I can get to continues 30 minutes at a 10 that would work out great..

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

I predict injury within a month. You're doing everything wrong. Switch back to 6 and see if you can do that for 30 minutes before attempting to do it at 10 for even 5 minutes. Shorten your strides. It's easier on your body.

thaylin0 · January 2015

_Waffle_ wrote: »

I predict injury within a month. You're doing everything wrong. Switch back to 6 and see if you can do that for 30 minutes before attempting to do it at 10 for even 5 minutes. Shorten your strides. It's easier on your body.

Please tell me what I am doing wrong. I am the type of person who needs to know exactly what is wrong so I can make adjustments. Just telling me "this is better" does not help if I dont know why it is better.

What is shorter strides easier on, because it does not seem to be my knee. At a 6 I am just jumping up and down mostly so I am coming almost completely down on my knee.

cheshirecatastrophe · January 2015

All right.

Running at an increased cadence has been shown to lessen impact forces on the knee. Pushing up the speed on the treadmill is an artificial way to force an increased cadence, yes.

But.

Big but.

Stretching out your legs and planting your feet in front of you is a really big no-no. Down the line, if you push towards 5K-10K-onward, that is going to *cause* knee and other problems. You want to land your feet as close to underneath you as possible, so you can recruit your glutes to help propel you up and forward. If you want long strides, pay attention to what your legs are doing behind you.

Samstan101 · January 2015

As above by taking big strides you are actually putting more force through your knees and at a bad angle. You should be landing so that your knee is over your foot and in line with your hips and your shoulders. Think little steps, fast feet same as if you're running up a hill.

thaylin0 · January 2015

cheshirecatastrophe wrote: »

All right.

Running at an increased cadence has been shown to lessen impact forces on the knee. Pushing up the speed on the treadmill is an artificial way to force an increased cadence, yes.

But.

Big but.

Stretching out your legs and planting your feet in front of you is a really big no-no. Down the line, if you push towards 5K-10K-onward, that is going to *cause* knee and other problems. You want to land your feet as close to underneath you as possible, so you can recruit your glutes to help propel you up and forward. If you want long strides, pay attention to what your legs are doing behind you.

Thank you for that. I may using the incorrect terminology to be honest I am kinda knew to breaking it down like this. it seemed that may be the case. To describe it better it is when I do it at a slower speed it is like I am jumping up and down slowly but I am coming down harder with less flex in the knee so it is jarring more, but when I up the speed I dont get that jarring, my knees come up fully like I remember when I used to run in school compared to just coming up slightly at the slower speed.

Thank you for your assistance.

omma_to_3 · January 2015

I went and had an evaluation by a PT who is also a competitive runner (I went for a shoe fitting and to help correct a cross gait). What he told me (and while surprising to me, felt true based on my results) is that increasing your speed often corrects bad form. The same goes with increasing the incline. Apparently your body gets much more serious and efficient when you're pushing it speed wise. He was trying to teach me to correct my form and when he's increase the speed, boom, it just magically happened.

AllanMisner · January 2015

What is shorter strides easier on, because it does not seem to be my knee. At a 6 I am just jumping up and down mostly so I am coming almost completely down on my knee.

I think you just answered your own question. For one reason or another, you seem to have better mechanics when you run faster. What you should consider is how to improve your mechanics all the time to avoid injury in the first place. Because, running faster, and then having a break down in mechanics could lead to a more serious injury.

I’d have a running coach look at how you run and advise you on form and ensure you get the proper foot ware. Or stick to elliptical so you can avoid the risk entirely.

thaylin0 · January 2015

omma_to_3 wrote: »

I went and had an evaluation by a PT who is also a competitive runner (I went for a shoe fitting and to help correct a cross gait). What he told me (and while surprising to me, felt true based on my results) is that increasing your speed often corrects bad form. The same goes with increasing the incline. Apparently your body gets much more serious and efficient when you're pushing it speed wise. He was trying to teach me to correct my form and when he's increase the speed, boom, it just magically happened.

yes, I learned that lifting waits, the heavier the weights the more your body corrects itself if your form is slightly off, but does not mean you should allow your form to be bad at the lower weights.

thaylin0 · January 2015

AllanMisner wrote: »

What is shorter strides easier on, because it does not seem to be my knee. At a 6 I am just jumping up and down mostly so I am coming almost completely down on my knee.

I think you just answered your own question. For one reason or another, you seem to have better mechanics when you run faster. What you should consider is how to improve your mechanics all the time to avoid injury in the first place. Because, running faster, and then having a break down in mechanics could lead to a more serious injury.

I’d have a running coach look at how you run and advise you on form and ensure you get the proper foot ware. Or stick to elliptical so you can avoid the risk entirely.

Thank you.

need help wrapping my head around something related to running on a treadmill.

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