IIFYM not fitting....
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »So it looks like you're still not meeting protein, even with the shake. Eat real food (meat), it will keep you sated longer.
I agree with ndj, you can get this free.
I do eat real meat - at every meal.
I paid for this just to see how accurate my measures personally were (and they were not) - but thanks for the input anyway.
What do you mean how accurate your measures were? Why do you think the person you paid was more accurate? 150g of protein likely is overkill, 1500 calories likely isn't enough, maybe you do better on higher fat g, etc.
I mentioned that my goal is to lean out, so fat loss, but not at the sake of a lot of muscle. To be more specific, I would like to get down to 18% body fat as I think that would be manageable for me at this time.
Stats are:
Weight = 135
Body fat = 20.5%
Activity level = heavy weight lifting 4x per week (upper/lower body split), HIIT 2x per week on off days, 1 full day of rest. Length = 60 minutes on average. "Heavy" defined by compound movements, but my weight is only around 60-70lbs for squats/deadlifts, for example.
I paid for this because my measurements were not correct and I kept reading conflicting information about what formulas to use, getting hugely different answers and said F&*# it and let a professional bikini model do it for me...who did advise to change my macros as I went along, but I am just curious what more seasoned IIFYM think of this assessment and how to make it work.
More clarity: The protein shake @ breakfast usually allows me more freedom in the rest of my day to have bigger meals. I do supplement the protein into my greek yogurt, adding chia seeds & fruit, etc.
Breakfast: eggs (2) & toast
Mid-morning: protein shake
Lunch: whatever fits my macros (usually chicken, vegetable, or turned into a wrap, etc.)
Mid-afternoon: protein shake
Dinner: whatever is left in my macros.
Somehow, I am still coming up short on calories - even after I hit my macros - and by logic, that just doesn't make sense. OR I am going over on fat - so basically, if I have a steak, even lean cut, I am maxed out on fats almost immediately.
So basically the way I am working this out mentally is - chicken/fish/chicken/fish/pork/chicken/fish - steak like once a month?
Sounds absolutely awful to me. I just can't eat this much damn protein without feeling sick.
Okay, let's round up the body fat to 21 for easier calculating.
LBM = ~106lbs
Meaning 109g protein is probably enough.
Let's assume that you lose virtually no lean body mass:
18% BF = 130lbs
if you lost a bit of lean mass then you'd probably get to 18% within the next 10lbs.
Meaning a 0.5lb/week or 10% below TDEE are ideal goals for you.
Re: macros and cals being off, your entries are either wrong or they are just the product of rounding. MFP is really not the best site for specifically tracking macros, so to compensate I calculate my macros to determine caloric intake (1g carb and protein = 4 cals, 1g fat = 9 calories). I also created my own private database and tabulated cals from the macros so that there is less error in rounding.
You don't have to hit your macros spot on. I can easily be 20g over on fat and under on carbs, it's not going to kill you. I don't see how you'd be eating a steak with 40+g of fat in it, or enough fat to result in going significantly over. If you look at my diary, you will see that I eat a lot of different things, although I sometimes eat the same thing many times in a row. But I don't limit my options, because that's not sustainable long term. If you crave more fat, go ahead.
Compound lifts doesn't mean you are lifting heavy... the weight you pull/push determines if you lift heavy. What is your rep range? 3-5 reps for ~3 sets is usually most easily tolerated on a cut, and would be lifting heavy. If you can easily squat and dead 60lbs without breaking a tiny bit of sweat, you aren't lifting heavy.
Calculating an estimated TDEE:
Let's assume your 60 mins is actually closer to 45 mins when you take out rests between exercises and minor warm-up times (I also do upper/lower and I am at the gym for an hour for weights, but only 45 mins or so of that is actual lifting + rests between reps). So, average of 30 mins moderate intensity a day.
I used two calculators (one assuming 3-5hrs/week of moderate exercise; the other assuming 10hrs/day sleep/reclining, 1hr walking/standing, and 30mins moderate exercise)
Maintain: 2040-2140 cals
10% deficit: 1840-1940 calories.
I used health-calc.com and scoobysworkshop for these estimates.
Let's say you choose 1840 cals. Macros:
Protein: 110g, 440 cals
Fat: minimum of 55g (0.4x your weight), 495 cals. You could go lower (0.3x weight) but you are already demonstrating that you enjoy fatty foods, so might as well set a higher minimum goal and adjust down if you find it's too high.
Carbs: ~226g, 905 cals.
Protein and fat would be your minimums, you can eat 80g of fat if you want and eat lower on carbs.
These are all estimates, though. So it could be that you'd actually only maintain on 1900 calories. You need to eat at a goal for a while and if you don't lose according to your goal, lower or increase the cals by 50-100 and monitor for a few weeks.
Thank you so much for all of your careful thought into this response! I could kiss you!
So too much protein, based on lean body mass. What about everything I have read stating you need to eat more to prevent catabolizing muscle mass while in a cut? Just curious about your thoughts on that. I am with you on it being too much protein on a personal level, my body doesn't vibe with it & somehow, it doesn't satiate me.
Re: Macros/cals off - I figured my estimates and/or the entries were incorrect (or both). I will be more diligent in scanning the foods and brands I am using in specific. I have already implemented my tablespoons and measuring cups for liquid measures and it has helped me fit those macros a little better thus far. As far as being over/under goes - I think that was part of the learning curve & realizing that if I wanted steak later in the day, I needed to have egg whites for breakfast instead, etc. Required more planning on my part to understand better why I was going over. Are you also suggesting that swapping out more fats one day in place of carbohydrates is acceptable under certain circumstances? (Cheat meal or otherwise....that steak I crave so much & didn't immediately plan to have when I made eggs for breakfast?) It sounds like you are suggesting you can swap out the ratios every once and awhile, just want to clarify as I go forward and make adjustments.
Lifting heavy/TDEE:
I think your calculations here would be correct. This is the activity level I advised to the individual who originally calculated my macros in the plan. I started lifting a year ago and had a lot of advancements to be made in form before I could safely attempt more weight. A session with an 80lb squat or deadlift does get my heart racing, but primarily for that move alone & not so much the others. According to another calculator, 1980 is maintenance for me. Based on my results from the macro report I paid for, I would have to assume that a deficit around 1500-1600 would be about right for more aggressive weight loss (conducive with other calculator's results and my own calculations via formulas) - which is probably how I got here, feeling so hungry in the first place. Since starting and incorporating a protein supplement, I have better adjusted to the lower intake. I am guessing I jumped into it too fast at the lowered intake and my body just needed time to catch up? Lesson learned for next time?
Thank you again for your insight!
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Also - if anyone has some sound, solid resources where I could read more (not IIFYM.com please, already scoured it a million times) that would be helpful, too! Thanks
Also, I am a research-based snob - if they can't cite a source, I don't continue reading...
there is a group on hear…side steel and sarah run called "eat, train, progress" you can either join it or post on their board ..they are very informative and helpful
Thank you! I'll look into that.0 -
I try to reach my protein intake first before fat, then try for fat before carbs. This does not always work out but it helps with my base. I feel eating more Protein keeps me satisfied rather then eating the carbs.0
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Heavy is usually considered 3-5 reps. 8 is pretty moderate, and once you get to heavier weights it will probably not be as sustainable while in your deficit.Oh and if anyone is wondering why I originally quoted 60-70lbs for squats/deadlifts and now it's up to 80lbs for each - I went up for each. Also, yes - I am lifting at 3 sets for 8 reps on heavy loads @ana3067
Are you able to do 8 reps no problem? Like breeze through them? If so then increase the weight. Although I definitely recommending aiming for below 6 reps while you are eating at a deficit.
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I try to reach my protein intake first before fat, then try for fat before carbs. This does not always work out but it helps with my base. I feel eating more Protein keeps me satisfied rather then eating the carbs.
Me, too. In fact, I really only care about protein, fat and making sure I'm getting enough fiber (through veggies or supplements). I'm almost never spot on in my macros but try to get as close to my protein and fat goals as possible. What's funny is that I look more at the ratios than the actual grams (but it usually works out the same). That is, there are a few days when I'm running around and can't get all my meals in. But I always try to make sure my % of protein and fat hit my goals. The same would be true if I went over my calories.
OP, I'm sure you'll be fine and you've gotten a lot of great tips/tools so far. Good luck!!!0 -
I don't have specific sources, but when I've done my own Googling most recommended 0.8x your total weight or 1x your LBM. They are similar numbers anyways, so not a huge difference which you choose. I have gone back and forth on my protein intake but recently decided I'd rather cheapen the diet, enjoy more carbs, and lower my protein to 0.8x weight (well, actually a few grams under). If eating 110g after a while doesn't seem like enough then you can always increase it. The biggest issue is going to be if you decrease your calories too much and decrease the loads you lift too much. I had to take a break for my tennis elbow and my arm muscles definitely took a bit of a hit for it
Give 110 a try for a month, see how you feel and if you notice any negatives in body composition. If so then increase protein a bit.
You can have your macros however you want. I don't plan my high fat days, but some days I decide to have a cheese omelet in the morning (getting up to 30g of fat), and then I'll have higher fat throughout the evening, perhaps salmon with some cottage cheese and maybe later on something with peanut butter. If I go over on fat randomly it doesn't matter. If you are consistently way under your carb goal and notice energy issues, then perhaps try carb cycling instead (have high carb days on workout days and high fat on rest days) or you could have a refeed (eat at maintenance or a bit above, meet your protein needs and then try to fill the rest with carbs, so choose lean protein sources) once a week/bi-weekly. Or yuo could try eating your main carbs before the workout and then just eat as you'd like the rest of the day while meeting protein minimum needs. About a week ago I ate ~80g fat twice in a row, my goal is ~60-65g. I can easily wind up having cheesey eggs for breakfast with some peanut butter on the side and then steak and salmon in the same day if I wanted to. If you notice that going under on carbs too much causes issues then you can adjust accordingly and try some of the methods I mentioned here, or pre-log if you know you want steak (then you can see how much fat you have left).
I'm betting your heart races more due to your rep range. Whenever I have tried up to 8 reps while dieting I wound up getting REALLY winded, reaaally sweaty. It's just too much for me to handle, so I do 3-5 rep range. I also can't do conventional deadlifts and squats on the same day for energy reasons, but this often happens once one or both lifts gets above your body weight; I do squats with romanian deadlifts (requires lighter weight by default, so works well after squats) and then conventional or sumo deadlifts with lunges (also requires lighter weight in most cases). Lower body work tires me out the most, but I never get so winded that it's hard to complete the exercise. If this is happening then you'd likely need to etiher lower the weight, lower the rep range, or both. At 80lbs for both I don't see you needing to separate them into separate days just yet.
The two calculators I used put your maintenance in the 2000s, not 1900s. So that means that with your small weight loss goal a 500+ deficit would probably just be too much, hence a 10% goal being much better (or 15% at the most). So I definitely recommend eating more than 1500, but that's up to you. You could try eating 1800-1900, see if you maintain after eating that for a month (there'd be initial scale gain, although less if you gradually increase to it), and if you are still losing a bit then you know that your maintenance is higher. If you maintain then you can do a 10% deficit for slow but non-hunger-inducing dieting based on that maintenance number.0 -
You should also Email you Macro Coach and see what they say for you. If you paid for the macro planning I am sure they gave you a certain time frame for their services.0
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Heavy is usually considered 3-5 reps. 8 is pretty moderate, and once you get to heavier weights it will probably not be as sustainable while in your deficit.Oh and if anyone is wondering why I originally quoted 60-70lbs for squats/deadlifts and now it's up to 80lbs for each - I went up for each. Also, yes - I am lifting at 3 sets for 8 reps on heavy loads @ana3067
Are you able to do 8 reps no problem? Like breeze through them? If so then increase the weight. Although I definitely recommending aiming for below 6 reps while you are eating at a deficit.
Not able to breeze through them at all. It is usually quite the sweaty workout. I am working on building strength towards that 3-5 with heavier weight, but I pace myself & allow my tendons to catch up before I attempt.
Just curious about the logic behind keeping the reps low while in a deficit? (Energy expenditure?) That would explain why I feel so hungry/low energy - but I can't imagine I am really burning that much if I am only lifting? I have cut out cardio for now and limited any thing I do to two HIIT/Plyo sessions at 20 min max on off days from lifting.
It just doesn't seem enough, to me, to qualify for the "workout 6x a week" status when calculating my macros. Over thinking things?
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How tall are you? 1500 calories per day sounds a bit low to me for someone who works out 6X per week and only has a little to lose. Unless you're really short, I don't see your TDEE being in the 1900 range.0
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Heavy is usually considered 3-5 reps. 8 is pretty moderate, and once you get to heavier weights it will probably not be as sustainable while in your deficit.Oh and if anyone is wondering why I originally quoted 60-70lbs for squats/deadlifts and now it's up to 80lbs for each - I went up for each. Also, yes - I am lifting at 3 sets for 8 reps on heavy loads @ana3067
Are you able to do 8 reps no problem? Like breeze through them? If so then increase the weight. Although I definitely recommending aiming for below 6 reps while you are eating at a deficit.
Not able to breeze through them at all. It is usually quite the sweaty workout. I am working on building strength towards that 3-5 with heavier weight, but I pace myself & allow my tendons to catch up before I attempt.
Just curious about the logic behind keeping the reps low while in a deficit? (Energy expenditure?) That would explain why I feel so hungry/low energy - but I can't imagine I am really burning that much if I am only lifting? I have cut out cardio for now and limited any thing I do to two HIIT/Plyo sessions at 20 min max on off days from lifting.
It just doesn't seem enough, to me, to qualify for the "workout 6x a week" status when calculating my macros. Over thinking things?
Logic for lower reps is that higher rep range is just harder to recover from, and from what I recall lower rep range is more useful while in a deficit because the lower rep range deals with your central nervous system. Higher rep ranges are more to help with hypertrophy (building muscle) and when in a deficit.. you aren't building muscle. So it tends to be recommended to go with lower rep. You could easily just add 5-10lbs to your current lifts until you can only do 5ish reps comfortably.
If you are low energy and hungry you are probably not eating enough, unless you are also eating too high carb. I had a 2500 calorie day a few weeks ago. It was like 400+g of carbs and I was STARVING. On 2500 calories! Did you wind up changing your calorie goal at all or are you still on 1500 and less?
Yea, overthinking a bit. Calculators are just estimates. So if you lose slower than expected, lower your calories a bit. If you lose faster, raise them a bit. but I do prefer calculators like exrx.net and health-calc.com because they don't use generic dials/drop-downs and are more customizable.0
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