Can you lose belly fat eating at maintenance?
Replies
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alanlmarshall wrote: »That's not possible. Exercising created a deficit. What's really going on is that it is difficult to estimate small changes in energy expenditure when you have so little to lose. It's an enviable problem to have.
yes it its…she can do a slow recomp at maintenance and will lose some fat and gain some muscle…however, it is a painfully slow process….
Generalisation.
It isn't slow for everyone - you can't just throw out blanket statements like that without context. Besides which slow actually suits a lot of people that are close to their ultimate goal.
Same that recomp doesn't suit everyone cut/bulk cycles don't either. There are a whole load of variables both physical and mental that are unique to the individual.
Would agree though that as a lean female progress with recomp would be likely be slow for the OP.
ok - well everything I have seen read/abut it states that it is a slow process and can take up to a year to see any appreciable results....
if you have anything that is to the contrary to that then I would be happy to take a look at it...
I'm guessing you haven't ever recomped then?
Take a fat, 18 year old male new to training and recomp will give fast results. IMHO opinion there would be no need for a calorie surplus until their muscle gains slowed and assuming their ultimate goal hasn't been met.
Take a fully trained 30 something who is fairly lean and progress will (likely) be slow recomping. So (probably) if no other factors are more important then bulk/cut would be the better choice.
But it depends on many factors what route people take - major one being the person's end goal.
So for me at the opposite end of the spectrum from an 18 year old newbie a bulk/cut cycle would simply see me get fat, slow (I cycle a lot), add a little muscle and then have to cut off the excess fat again leaving me very close to where I started. In my 50's my ability to gain muscle isn't really restricted by my calorie intake! That's where context matters.
Even after almost 40 years of training I saw good steady progress both measurable and visible from recomping over a period of 6 months.
For the OP:
Female (so progress unlikely to be quick), lean (doesn't have an easily accessible energy store) both factors pushing towards bulk/cut.
But on the flip side - very close to ultimate goal (assumption from picture and comments made), maybe not mentally ready to get "fluffy" and gain weight again?
you accused me of generalizing, but you appear to be doing the same thing. I was curious if you had any literature on the subject of recomping that shows it is in fact not a slow process...
No, I have never done a recomp...
And I've never had to do a bulk/cut cycle - well not intentionally anyway!
My point was all about context - trying to illustrate that there are too many variables to simply state it's fast or slow or takes a year to see results. Genetics is a big issue too. Probably the quickest recomper I've seen was a teenage rugby player who grew muscle incredibly quickly without weight gain - he has since become a competitive bodybuilder and not surprisingly now has to bulk/cut to achieve his new goals.
You could read up on Alan Aragon's culking approach is you want to know more about a more structured approach than my "train hard, eat enough and physique follows performance" style of recomp.
thanks man I will do that ...
I was not really trying to challenge you ..I see you on here a lot and I think that you provide a lot of solid information ..
Like I said, my, all be it, limited understanding of recomp is that it is a slow process ....but I will look up the alan aragon stuff for sure...0 -
alanlmarshall wrote: »That's not possible. Exercising created a deficit. What's really going on is that it is difficult to estimate small changes in energy expenditure when you have so little to lose. It's an enviable problem to have.
yes it its…she can do a slow recomp at maintenance and will lose some fat and gain some muscle…however, it is a painfully slow process….
Generalisation.
It isn't slow for everyone - you can't just throw out blanket statements like that without context. Besides which slow actually suits a lot of people that are close to their ultimate goal.
Same that recomp doesn't suit everyone cut/bulk cycles don't either. There are a whole load of variables both physical and mental that are unique to the individual.
Would agree though that as a lean female progress with recomp would be likely be slow for the OP.
ok - well everything I have seen read/abut it states that it is a slow process and can take up to a year to see any appreciable results....
if you have anything that is to the contrary to that then I would be happy to take a look at it...
I'm guessing you haven't ever recomped then?
Take a fat, 18 year old male new to training and recomp will give fast results. IMHO opinion there would be no need for a calorie surplus until their muscle gains slowed and assuming their ultimate goal hasn't been met.
Take a fully trained 30 something who is fairly lean and progress will (likely) be slow recomping. So (probably) if no other factors are more important then bulk/cut would be the better choice.
But it depends on many factors what route people take - major one being the person's end goal.
So for me at the opposite end of the spectrum from an 18 year old newbie a bulk/cut cycle would simply see me get fat, slow (I cycle a lot), add a little muscle and then have to cut off the excess fat again leaving me very close to where I started. In my 50's my ability to gain muscle isn't really restricted by my calorie intake! That's where context matters.
Even after almost 40 years of training I saw good steady progress both measurable and visible from recomping over a period of 6 months.
For the OP:
Female (so progress unlikely to be quick), lean (doesn't have an easily accessible energy store) both factors pushing towards bulk/cut.
But on the flip side - very close to ultimate goal (assumption from picture and comments made), maybe not mentally ready to get "fluffy" and gain weight again?
You are right about the last bit lol I'll prob get depressed if I put weight back on hahaha.0 -
Both work as I've done both myself, it will work for some but not others baring in mind. I saw results at around the 3month mark when maintaining, I was maintaining muscle mass but could see I was getting more vascular and leaner then I decided to change up my calories to around a 250cal deficit and saw results in about a month and a half. I would recommend eating in a deficit of about 200-300 cals if you are in a rush to get rid of the excess fat (of which I can't see any) eat in a deficit, but if your not in any kind of a rush I'd give maintaining a go. I'm back on a maintaining phase as of tomorrow
I'm eating 250 cals under maintenance atm
I do cardio and weights. Let's see how it goes 0 -
You've got to understand that men and women are very different.
People quite often don't quite get how losing 4/5 pounds of body fat at our low weight can make an enormous difference to our body fat percentage, putting us in a great place to make leaner gains. I can see that your weight OR body fat isn't low enough yet to get where you want to go. I also know you aren't experienced enough yet, or male enough to successfully recomp lol.
I also think you aren't as far under maintenance as you think you are, and will be dropping about a pound a month at this rate. I think that is awesome, if you have the patience. But to truly get the body you dream of, you are going to have to build some muscle shape, and you need to bulk a bit, about 3lbs, which is months of hard work, and you'll need to be in calorie excess to do it.0 -
joepratt503 wrote: »To the OP, a recomp will work but really your goal needs to be more training oriented than loss oriented or it will be very discouraging (at least it would be to me). If it were me, I would slowly add back in calories until you are full on maintenance (also knows as reverse dieting) which will help fix your metabolism if there is an issue. Do that for a month or so and then re-cut and see if you can knock out that last little bit. My personal experience tells me it might be your macros that are causing issues...some people need extra low fat others extra low carbs and others are just low cal across the board. You will need to play with those and see if any combination works better for that week and go from there.
Considering where you are...you are in the enviable position of having to really "plan" your diet for results...so many of us can do all sorts of stupid stuff and still have it work but you are that much farther along
I was eating 500 cals under maintenance for about two months and nothing really changed. Got told I was in a stall and that my metabolism has slowed down. So a week ago I started eating only 250 cals under maintenance. Let's see how this goes lol.
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jaysiekemso wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »Netting a little under maintenance helped me in that area.
My maintenance is about 1850 lol im eating 1610 a day atm hopefully it works
Off topic a little but.....your maintenance is 1850?! That's awesome!!!! I have to eat that to lose 1 lb per week and I am 100 lbs heavier than you. I wonder how high that makes my maintenance.(SCORE!) LOL.
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_whatsherface wrote: »jaysiekemso wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »Netting a little under maintenance helped me in that area.
My maintenance is about 1850 lol im eating 1610 a day atm hopefully it works
Off topic a little but.....your maintenance is 1850?! That's awesome!!!! I have to eat that to lose 1 lb per week and I am 100 lbs heavier than you. I wonder how high that makes my maintenance.(SCORE!) LOL.
She is including 3 hours of cardio per week and 6 gym sessions. I still think it might be overestimated, hence the fact that she is stalling at 1610. Maintenance?
But we will find out! If she has the patience to lose that slowly.0 -
Springfield1970 wrote: »You've got to understand that men and women are very different.
People quite often don't quite get how losing 4/5 pounds of body fat at our low weight can make an enormous difference to our body fat percentage, putting us in a great place to make leaner gains. I can see that your weight OR body fat isn't low enough yet to get where you want to go. I also know you aren't experienced enough yet, or male enough to successfully recomp lol.
I also think you aren't as far under maintenance as you think you are, and will be dropping about a pound a month at this rate. I think that is awesome, if you have the patience. But to truly get the body you dream of, you are going to have to build some muscle shape, and you need to bulk a bit, about 3lbs, which is months of hard work, and you'll need to be in calorie excess to do it.
Question about this-- originally recomping was suggested to me by Sarauk2sf specifically because I wasn't experienced enough to do a bulk and because I wasn't ready mentally for fat gain. Can I ask what the reasoning is for not recomping as a beginner? It seems like it'd be easier to take advantage of newbie gains (that's certainly what happened for me, things have slowed WAY down since then).
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Springfield1970 wrote: »_whatsherface wrote: »jaysiekemso wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »Netting a little under maintenance helped me in that area.
My maintenance is about 1850 lol im eating 1610 a day atm hopefully it works
Off topic a little but.....your maintenance is 1850?! That's awesome!!!! I have to eat that to lose 1 lb per week and I am 100 lbs heavier than you. I wonder how high that makes my maintenance.(SCORE!) LOL.
She is including 3 hours of cardio per week and 6 gym sessions. I still think it might be overestimated, hence the fact that she is stalling at 1610. Maintenance?
But we will find out! If she has the patience to lose that slowly.
My maintenance is probably higher than 1850. I'm eating 1600 cals at the moment. When I worked out my TDEE I chose "lightly active" which is 1 - 3 exercises a week. Not sure if that means cardio exercises or cardio exercises AND weights training. Because weights training don't burn many calories. I do two BodyAttack classes a week (I burn 500cals in each class) and one Grit Strength class (390 cals). And weights for about an hour to an hour and a half, 6 days a week. I've only started doing all this a week ago. Before that for about 2 months I was eating 1300 cals a day and did about 4 Bodyattack classes and 6 weights training a week. Do you reckon I was in a stall? Because I wasn't seeing results back then, everything stayed the same. I'm eating a lil more now and cut down on cardio too. Hopefully im doing the right thing0 -
_whatsherface wrote: »jaysiekemso wrote: »20yearsyounger wrote: »Netting a little under maintenance helped me in that area.
My maintenance is about 1850 lol im eating 1610 a day atm hopefully it works
Off topic a little but.....your maintenance is 1850?! That's awesome!!!! I have to eat that to lose 1 lb per week and I am 100 lbs heavier than you. I wonder how high that makes my maintenance.(SCORE!) LOL.
The heavier you are the higher your maintenance is
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »You've got to understand that men and women are very different.
People quite often don't quite get how losing 4/5 pounds of body fat at our low weight can make an enormous difference to our body fat percentage, putting us in a great place to make leaner gains. I can see that your weight OR body fat isn't low enough yet to get where you want to go. I also know you aren't experienced enough yet, or male enough to successfully recomp lol.
I also think you aren't as far under maintenance as you think you are, and will be dropping about a pound a month at this rate. I think that is awesome, if you have the patience. But to truly get the body you dream of, you are going to have to build some muscle shape, and you need to bulk a bit, about 3lbs, which is months of hard work, and you'll need to be in calorie excess to do it.
Question about this-- originally recomping was suggested to me by Sarauk2sf specifically because I wasn't experienced enough to do a bulk and because I wasn't ready mentally for fat gain. Can I ask what the reasoning is for not recomping as a beginner? It seems like it'd be easier to take advantage of newbie gains (that's certainly what happened for me, things have slowed WAY down since then).
You have to know your numbers ie your Tdee, exercise burns, maintenance really well, and have the faith to sit through weeks/months of stalls without panicking and bingeing, or over cutting. It takes a couple of years to get this all together plus learning to lift properly, and figuring out exactly how you want your body to look and how much you can bend your lifestyle to it.
Bulking and cutting is so much more black and white! You can see visible results, track things easier, and not get caught up in all the mind games of recomping. I honestly think it's much harder for women to recomp. Especially if you are one of the many women, like me that have put the fear of dieting into our bodies and have the eternal munchies!
With bulking you get the satisfaction of more food, seeing your strength go up, added growth hormone, visible healthy nails, skin and hair, it's like turning the clock back.
With cutting you get the hunger hormones taking a back seat, a timeline you can see an end to and of course results on the scale, measuring tape.
It's so much more satisfying and obvious.
Recomping, muddy and confusing! Plus maintenance is A *kitten*!
I'm not even sure how much newbie gains are for women. Muscle is so hard to come by for us.
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Springfield1970 wrote: »You've got to understand that men and women are very different.
People quite often don't quite get how losing 4/5 pounds of body fat at our low weight can make an enormous difference to our body fat percentage, putting us in a great place to make leaner gains. I can see that your weight OR body fat isn't low enough yet to get where you want to go. I also know you aren't experienced enough yet, or male enough to successfully recomp lol.
I also think you aren't as far under maintenance as you think you are, and will be dropping about a pound a month at this rate. I think that is awesome, if you have the patience. But to truly get the body you dream of, you are going to have to build some muscle shape, and you need to bulk a bit, about 3lbs, which is months of hard work, and you'll need to be in calorie excess to do it.
Why do you think I'm not as far under maintenance as I think I am? Lol am I calculating my TDEE wrong? Ahh so confused lol. By the way how do I get out of a stall?0 -
Have you been eating 1600 a day for 5-6 weeks and not changed weight? It wasn't totally clear from your origanl post how long you'd been at this number.....0
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Springfield1970 wrote: »Have you been eating 1600 a day for 5-6 weeks and not changed weight? It wasn't totally clear from your origanl post how long you'd been at this number.....
Oh sorry. Um I was eating 1300 cals a day for the last two months and nothing changed (That was about 500 cals under maintenance). Only a week ago that I started eating 1610 cals a day. Still do the same amount of weights training but I cut down on cardio a bit.0 -
Then you're either underestimating your intake, truly at maintenance, or in a stall.
Only time will tell. Track everything meticulously. The discoveries you make now will set you up for years of maintenance, cutting and bulking.
Just don't go down the whole 'metabolism stalled, starvation mode myth shenanigans' it's bull and will stop you finding the truth.
I explained the theory behind the stall earlier. Give it time.0 -
Recomp is simply eating at (or around) maintenance calories while training. You can gradually reduce fat and add muscle.
It's the alternative to bulk/cut cycles.
It can be as simple as just eating at maintenance and training - your physique will change over time to reflect your performance. Or there are more complex routines involving calorie cycling which are more for those people with specific physique priorities.
Worth a read
http://bretcontreras.com/to-bulk-and-cut-or-not/
In for more pictures of half-naked Chris and Hugh.
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Springfield1970 wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »You've got to understand that men and women are very different.
People quite often don't quite get how losing 4/5 pounds of body fat at our low weight can make an enormous difference to our body fat percentage, putting us in a great place to make leaner gains. I can see that your weight OR body fat isn't low enough yet to get where you want to go. I also know you aren't experienced enough yet, or male enough to successfully recomp lol.
I also think you aren't as far under maintenance as you think you are, and will be dropping about a pound a month at this rate. I think that is awesome, if you have the patience. But to truly get the body you dream of, you are going to have to build some muscle shape, and you need to bulk a bit, about 3lbs, which is months of hard work, and you'll need to be in calorie excess to do it.
Question about this-- originally recomping was suggested to me by Sarauk2sf specifically because I wasn't experienced enough to do a bulk and because I wasn't ready mentally for fat gain. Can I ask what the reasoning is for not recomping as a beginner? It seems like it'd be easier to take advantage of newbie gains (that's certainly what happened for me, things have slowed WAY down since then).
You have to know your numbers ie your Tdee, exercise burns, maintenance really well, and have the faith to sit through weeks/months of stalls without panicking and bingeing, or over cutting. It takes a couple of years to get this all together plus learning to lift properly, and figuring out exactly how you want your body to look and how much you can bend your lifestyle to it.
Bulking and cutting is so much more black and white! You can see visible results, track things easier, and not get caught up in all the mind games of recomping. I honestly think it's much harder for women to recomp. Especially if you are one of the many women, like me that have put the fear of dieting into our bodies and have the eternal munchies!
With bulking you get the satisfaction of more food, seeing your strength go up, added growth hormone, visible healthy nails, skin and hair, it's like turning the clock back.
With cutting you get the hunger hormones taking a back seat, a timeline you can see an end to and of course results on the scale, measuring tape.
It's so much more satisfying and obvious.
Recomping, muddy and confusing! Plus maintenance is A *kitten*!
I'm not even sure how much newbie gains are for women. Muscle is so hard to come by for us.
I personally find the opposite to be true. I already had a good idea of my numbers and I'm a patient woman so the time didn't bother me. I found my short bulk to be much more of a mind game than my year of recomp. And I like maintenance. It's easy for me to keep the same calorie goal all the time instead of getting used to eating more and then having to adjust to eating less again. I suspect all of that is a matter of preference and temperament.
The part about lifting is the part that's throwing me. The way it was explained to me at the time is that it takes more lifting knowledge to bulk, and that generally speaking it's better to recomp first while you learn the ropes. Then when you're actually eating at a surplus you know that you're doing so you don't just gain fat.
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »You've got to understand that men and women are very different.
People quite often don't quite get how losing 4/5 pounds of body fat at our low weight can make an enormous difference to our body fat percentage, putting us in a great place to make leaner gains. I can see that your weight OR body fat isn't low enough yet to get where you want to go. I also know you aren't experienced enough yet, or male enough to successfully recomp lol.
I also think you aren't as far under maintenance as you think you are, and will be dropping about a pound a month at this rate. I think that is awesome, if you have the patience. But to truly get the body you dream of, you are going to have to build some muscle shape, and you need to bulk a bit, about 3lbs, which is months of hard work, and you'll need to be in calorie excess to do it.
Question about this-- originally recomping was suggested to me by Sarauk2sf specifically because I wasn't experienced enough to do a bulk and because I wasn't ready mentally for fat gain. Can I ask what the reasoning is for not recomping as a beginner? It seems like it'd be easier to take advantage of newbie gains (that's certainly what happened for me, things have slowed WAY down since then).
You have to know your numbers ie your Tdee, exercise burns, maintenance really well, and have the faith to sit through weeks/months of stalls without panicking and bingeing, or over cutting. It takes a couple of years to get this all together plus learning to lift properly, and figuring out exactly how you want your body to look and how much you can bend your lifestyle to it.
Bulking and cutting is so much more black and white! You can see visible results, track things easier, and not get caught up in all the mind games of recomping. I honestly think it's much harder for women to recomp. Especially if you are one of the many women, like me that have put the fear of dieting into our bodies and have the eternal munchies!
With bulking you get the satisfaction of more food, seeing your strength go up, added growth hormone, visible healthy nails, skin and hair, it's like turning the clock back.
With cutting you get the hunger hormones taking a back seat, a timeline you can see an end to and of course results on the scale, measuring tape.
It's so much more satisfying and obvious.
Recomping, muddy and confusing! Plus maintenance is A *kitten*!
I'm not even sure how much newbie gains are for women. Muscle is so hard to come by for us.
I personally find the opposite to be true. I already had a good idea of my numbers and I'm a patient woman so the time didn't bother me. I found my short bulk to be much more of a mind game than my year of recomp. And I like maintenance. It's easy for me to keep the same calorie goal all the time instead of getting used to eating more and then having to adjust to eating less again. I suspect all of that is a matter of preference and temperament.
The part about lifting is the part that's throwing me. The way it was explained to me at the time is that it takes more lifting knowledge to bulk, and that generally speaking it's better to recomp first while you learn the ropes. Then when you're actually eating at a surplus you know that you're doing so you don't just gain fat.
Sounds good I don't think I'm ready to bulk, im no where near experienced enough. 5 months ago I didn't even know what macros were lol
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »You've got to understand that men and women are very different.
People quite often don't quite get how losing 4/5 pounds of body fat at our low weight can make an enormous difference to our body fat percentage, putting us in a great place to make leaner gains. I can see that your weight OR body fat isn't low enough yet to get where you want to go. I also know you aren't experienced enough yet, or male enough to successfully recomp lol.
I also think you aren't as far under maintenance as you think you are, and will be dropping about a pound a month at this rate. I think that is awesome, if you have the patience. But to truly get the body you dream of, you are going to have to build some muscle shape, and you need to bulk a bit, about 3lbs, which is months of hard work, and you'll need to be in calorie excess to do it.
Question about this-- originally recomping was suggested to me by Sarauk2sf specifically because I wasn't experienced enough to do a bulk and because I wasn't ready mentally for fat gain. Can I ask what the reasoning is for not recomping as a beginner? It seems like it'd be easier to take advantage of newbie gains (that's certainly what happened for me, things have slowed WAY down since then).
You have to know your numbers ie your Tdee, exercise burns, maintenance really well, and have the faith to sit through weeks/months of stalls without panicking and bingeing, or over cutting. It takes a couple of years to get this all together plus learning to lift properly, and figuring out exactly how you want your body to look and how much you can bend your lifestyle to it.
Bulking and cutting is so much more black and white! You can see visible results, track things easier, and not get caught up in all the mind games of recomping. I honestly think it's much harder for women to recomp. Especially if you are one of the many women, like me that have put the fear of dieting into our bodies and have the eternal munchies!
With bulking you get the satisfaction of more food, seeing your strength go up, added growth hormone, visible healthy nails, skin and hair, it's like turning the clock back.
With cutting you get the hunger hormones taking a back seat, a timeline you can see an end to and of course results on the scale, measuring tape.
It's so much more satisfying and obvious.
Recomping, muddy and confusing! Plus maintenance is A *kitten*!
I'm not even sure how much newbie gains are for women. Muscle is so hard to come by for us.
I personally find the opposite to be true. I already had a good idea of my numbers and I'm a patient woman so the time didn't bother me. I found my short bulk to be much more of a mind game than my year of recomp. And I like maintenance. It's easy for me to keep the same calorie goal all the time instead of getting used to eating more and then having to adjust to eating less again. I suspect all of that is a matter of preference and temperament.
The part about lifting is the part that's throwing me. The way it was explained to me at the time is that it takes more lifting knowledge to bulk, and that generally speaking it's better to recomp first while you learn the ropes. Then when you're actually eating at a surplus you know that you're doing so you don't just gain fat.
It's interesting to hear other people's experiences!
I find maintenance really difficult! I do too much cardio and my hunger is through the roof. But that's because I love triathlon. I bulk and cut when I'm off season.
I agree that there needs to be a good period of time to get experienced with heavy lifting and make use of any newbie gains! It's always difficult to know what to do next though, but a good adventure
OP I hope you keep this thread alive and update us! Please take measurements and weigh yourself so we can see what works for you, it's really useful for us.
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jaysiekemso wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »You've got to understand that men and women are very different.
People quite often don't quite get how losing 4/5 pounds of body fat at our low weight can make an enormous difference to our body fat percentage, putting us in a great place to make leaner gains. I can see that your weight OR body fat isn't low enough yet to get where you want to go. I also know you aren't experienced enough yet, or male enough to successfully recomp lol.
I also think you aren't as far under maintenance as you think you are, and will be dropping about a pound a month at this rate. I think that is awesome, if you have the patience. But to truly get the body you dream of, you are going to have to build some muscle shape, and you need to bulk a bit, about 3lbs, which is months of hard work, and you'll need to be in calorie excess to do it.
Question about this-- originally recomping was suggested to me by Sarauk2sf specifically because I wasn't experienced enough to do a bulk and because I wasn't ready mentally for fat gain. Can I ask what the reasoning is for not recomping as a beginner? It seems like it'd be easier to take advantage of newbie gains (that's certainly what happened for me, things have slowed WAY down since then).
You have to know your numbers ie your Tdee, exercise burns, maintenance really well, and have the faith to sit through weeks/months of stalls without panicking and bingeing, or over cutting. It takes a couple of years to get this all together plus learning to lift properly, and figuring out exactly how you want your body to look and how much you can bend your lifestyle to it.
Bulking and cutting is so much more black and white! You can see visible results, track things easier, and not get caught up in all the mind games of recomping. I honestly think it's much harder for women to recomp. Especially if you are one of the many women, like me that have put the fear of dieting into our bodies and have the eternal munchies!
With bulking you get the satisfaction of more food, seeing your strength go up, added growth hormone, visible healthy nails, skin and hair, it's like turning the clock back.
With cutting you get the hunger hormones taking a back seat, a timeline you can see an end to and of course results on the scale, measuring tape.
It's so much more satisfying and obvious.
Recomping, muddy and confusing! Plus maintenance is A *kitten*!
I'm not even sure how much newbie gains are for women. Muscle is so hard to come by for us.
I personally find the opposite to be true. I already had a good idea of my numbers and I'm a patient woman so the time didn't bother me. I found my short bulk to be much more of a mind game than my year of recomp. And I like maintenance. It's easy for me to keep the same calorie goal all the time instead of getting used to eating more and then having to adjust to eating less again. I suspect all of that is a matter of preference and temperament.
The part about lifting is the part that's throwing me. The way it was explained to me at the time is that it takes more lifting knowledge to bulk, and that generally speaking it's better to recomp first while you learn the ropes. Then when you're actually eating at a surplus you know that you're doing so you don't just gain fat.
Sounds good I don't think I'm ready to bulk, im no where near experienced enough. 5 months ago I didn't even know what macros were lol
One day you'll be ready and brave enough! I hope it's sooner rather than later. Cutting is easy, so don't worry about a bit of fat gain with bulking. Building curvy muscle is really difficult but such an amazing experience.
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Springfield1970 wrote: »Then you're either underestimating your intake, truly at maintenance, or in a stall.
Only time will tell. Track everything meticulously. The discoveries you make now will set you up for years of maintenance, cutting and bulking.
Just don't go down the whole 'metabolism stalled, starvation mode myth shenanigans' it's bull and will stop you finding the truth.
I explained the theory behind the stall earlier. Give it time.
I second this.
Those numbers match mine 1650/1800ish for losing/maintenance- and I am 5'8" at 165 pounds- I lift 3 times a week- I spend 15 hours a week in dance of various intensity (actual dance- not zumba) and I finally re-started dropping some body fat after adding in 2 additional/shorter sessions of cardio.
- So- yeah- I'm NOW losing again this month after finally sucking it up to add cardio...
But I'm now doing
Three (and occasionally four) 90-120 min sessions lifting
10-15 hours of Dance movement- rehersal- and technical drilling classes
Two- 15-30 min cardio (mostly running) sessions.
Being said- OP- you're eating more than you think- and or you need to be lifting.
I suggest staying at the calorie intake and getting on a progressive lifting program- something 3-4 times a week and not a 6 week isolation program- build some solid muscle. That will improve your over all look and structure- because continuing to lose weight and have little to no frame under it in terms of muscle will not improve your appearance.0 -
Springfield1970 wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »You've got to understand that men and women are very different.
People quite often don't quite get how losing 4/5 pounds of body fat at our low weight can make an enormous difference to our body fat percentage, putting us in a great place to make leaner gains. I can see that your weight OR body fat isn't low enough yet to get where you want to go. I also know you aren't experienced enough yet, or male enough to successfully recomp lol.
I also think you aren't as far under maintenance as you think you are, and will be dropping about a pound a month at this rate. I think that is awesome, if you have the patience. But to truly get the body you dream of, you are going to have to build some muscle shape, and you need to bulk a bit, about 3lbs, which is months of hard work, and you'll need to be in calorie excess to do it.
Question about this-- originally recomping was suggested to me by Sarauk2sf specifically because I wasn't experienced enough to do a bulk and because I wasn't ready mentally for fat gain. Can I ask what the reasoning is for not recomping as a beginner? It seems like it'd be easier to take advantage of newbie gains (that's certainly what happened for me, things have slowed WAY down since then).
You have to know your numbers ie your Tdee, exercise burns, maintenance really well, and have the faith to sit through weeks/months of stalls without panicking and bingeing, or over cutting. It takes a couple of years to get this all together plus learning to lift properly, and figuring out exactly how you want your body to look and how much you can bend your lifestyle to it.
Bulking and cutting is so much more black and white! You can see visible results, track things easier, and not get caught up in all the mind games of recomping. I honestly think it's much harder for women to recomp. Especially if you are one of the many women, like me that have put the fear of dieting into our bodies and have the eternal munchies!
With bulking you get the satisfaction of more food, seeing your strength go up, added growth hormone, visible healthy nails, skin and hair, it's like turning the clock back.
With cutting you get the hunger hormones taking a back seat, a timeline you can see an end to and of course results on the scale, measuring tape.
It's so much more satisfying and obvious.
Recomping, muddy and confusing! Plus maintenance is A *kitten*!
I'm not even sure how much newbie gains are for women. Muscle is so hard to come by for us.
I personally find the opposite to be true. I already had a good idea of my numbers and I'm a patient woman so the time didn't bother me. I found my short bulk to be much more of a mind game than my year of recomp. And I like maintenance. It's easy for me to keep the same calorie goal all the time instead of getting used to eating more and then having to adjust to eating less again. I suspect all of that is a matter of preference and temperament.
The part about lifting is the part that's throwing me. The way it was explained to me at the time is that it takes more lifting knowledge to bulk, and that generally speaking it's better to recomp first while you learn the ropes. Then when you're actually eating at a surplus you know that you're doing so you don't just gain fat.
It's interesting to hear other people's experiences!
I find maintenance really difficult! I do too much cardio and my hunger is through the roof. But that's because I love triathlon. I bulk and cut when I'm off season.
I agree that there needs to be a good period of time to get experienced with heavy lifting and make use of any newbie gains! It's always difficult to know what to do next though, but a good adventure
OP I hope you keep this thread alive and update us! Please take measurements and weigh yourself so we can see what works for you, it's really useful for us.
Yup will update it it's only been a week and i haven't seen any changes yet 
but the good thing is I've been eating more and doing less cardio.. Not putting on weight so im happy lol
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Springfield1970 wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »You've got to understand that men and women are very different.
People quite often don't quite get how losing 4/5 pounds of body fat at our low weight can make an enormous difference to our body fat percentage, putting us in a great place to make leaner gains. I can see that your weight OR body fat isn't low enough yet to get where you want to go. I also know you aren't experienced enough yet, or male enough to successfully recomp lol.
I also think you aren't as far under maintenance as you think you are, and will be dropping about a pound a month at this rate. I think that is awesome, if you have the patience. But to truly get the body you dream of, you are going to have to build some muscle shape, and you need to bulk a bit, about 3lbs, which is months of hard work, and you'll need to be in calorie excess to do it.
Question about this-- originally recomping was suggested to me by Sarauk2sf specifically because I wasn't experienced enough to do a bulk and because I wasn't ready mentally for fat gain. Can I ask what the reasoning is for not recomping as a beginner? It seems like it'd be easier to take advantage of newbie gains (that's certainly what happened for me, things have slowed WAY down since then).
You have to know your numbers ie your Tdee, exercise burns, maintenance really well, and have the faith to sit through weeks/months of stalls without panicking and bingeing, or over cutting. It takes a couple of years to get this all together plus learning to lift properly, and figuring out exactly how you want your body to look and how much you can bend your lifestyle to it.
Bulking and cutting is so much more black and white! You can see visible results, track things easier, and not get caught up in all the mind games of recomping. I honestly think it's much harder for women to recomp. Especially if you are one of the many women, like me that have put the fear of dieting into our bodies and have the eternal munchies!
With bulking you get the satisfaction of more food, seeing your strength go up, added growth hormone, visible healthy nails, skin and hair, it's like turning the clock back.
With cutting you get the hunger hormones taking a back seat, a timeline you can see an end to and of course results on the scale, measuring tape.
It's so much more satisfying and obvious.
Recomping, muddy and confusing! Plus maintenance is A *kitten*!
I'm not even sure how much newbie gains are for women. Muscle is so hard to come by for us.
I personally find the opposite to be true. I already had a good idea of my numbers and I'm a patient woman so the time didn't bother me. I found my short bulk to be much more of a mind game than my year of recomp. And I like maintenance. It's easy for me to keep the same calorie goal all the time instead of getting used to eating more and then having to adjust to eating less again. I suspect all of that is a matter of preference and temperament.
The part about lifting is the part that's throwing me. The way it was explained to me at the time is that it takes more lifting knowledge to bulk, and that generally speaking it's better to recomp first while you learn the ropes. Then when you're actually eating at a surplus you know that you're doing so you don't just gain fat.
It's interesting to hear other people's experiences!
I find maintenance really difficult! I do too much cardio and my hunger is through the roof. But that's because I love triathlon. I bulk and cut when I'm off season.
I agree that there needs to be a good period of time to get experienced with heavy lifting and make use of any newbie gains! It's always difficult to know what to do next though, but a good adventure
OP I hope you keep this thread alive and update us! Please take measurements and weigh yourself so we can see what works for you, it's really useful for us.
Yup will update it it's only been a week and i haven't seen any changes yet but the good thing is I've been eating more and doing less cardio.. Not putting on weight so im happy lol
Springfield1970 wrote: »jaysiekemso wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »Springfield1970 wrote: »You've got to understand that men and women are very different.
People quite often don't quite get how losing 4/5 pounds of body fat at our low weight can make an enormous difference to our body fat percentage, putting us in a great place to make leaner gains. I can see that your weight OR body fat isn't low enough yet to get where you want to go. I also know you aren't experienced enough yet, or male enough to successfully recomp lol.
I also think you aren't as far under maintenance as you think you are, and will be dropping about a pound a month at this rate. I think that is awesome, if you have the patience. But to truly get the body you dream of, you are going to have to build some muscle shape, and you need to bulk a bit, about 3lbs, which is months of hard work, and you'll need to be in calorie excess to do it.
Question about this-- originally recomping was suggested to me by Sarauk2sf specifically because I wasn't experienced enough to do a bulk and because I wasn't ready mentally for fat gain. Can I ask what the reasoning is for not recomping as a beginner? It seems like it'd be easier to take advantage of newbie gains (that's certainly what happened for me, things have slowed WAY down since then).
You have to know your numbers ie your Tdee, exercise burns, maintenance really well, and have the faith to sit through weeks/months of stalls without panicking and bingeing, or over cutting. It takes a couple of years to get this all together plus learning to lift properly, and figuring out exactly how you want your body to look and how much you can bend your lifestyle to it.
Bulking and cutting is so much more black and white! You can see visible results, track things easier, and not get caught up in all the mind games of recomping. I honestly think it's much harder for women to recomp. Especially if you are one of the many women, like me that have put the fear of dieting into our bodies and have the eternal munchies!
With bulking you get the satisfaction of more food, seeing your strength go up, added growth hormone, visible healthy nails, skin and hair, it's like turning the clock back.
With cutting you get the hunger hormones taking a back seat, a timeline you can see an end to and of course results on the scale, measuring tape.
It's so much more satisfying and obvious.
Recomping, muddy and confusing! Plus maintenance is A *kitten*!
I'm not even sure how much newbie gains are for women. Muscle is so hard to come by for us.
I personally find the opposite to be true. I already had a good idea of my numbers and I'm a patient woman so the time didn't bother me. I found my short bulk to be much more of a mind game than my year of recomp. And I like maintenance. It's easy for me to keep the same calorie goal all the time instead of getting used to eating more and then having to adjust to eating less again. I suspect all of that is a matter of preference and temperament.
The part about lifting is the part that's throwing me. The way it was explained to me at the time is that it takes more lifting knowledge to bulk, and that generally speaking it's better to recomp first while you learn the ropes. Then when you're actually eating at a surplus you know that you're doing so you don't just gain fat.
Sounds good I don't think I'm ready to bulk, im no where near experienced enough. 5 months ago I didn't even know what macros were lol
One day you'll be ready and brave enough! I hope it's sooner rather than later. Cutting is easy, so don't worry about a bit of fat gain with bulking. Building curvy muscle is really difficult but such an amazing experience.
Thank you I hope so too. At the moment im just learning everything by myself.. I wish I could afford a PT lol
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You don't need a personal trainer! Not with the Internet and people going you good advice on MFP.
You need to keep records and be meticulous and find out for yourself.
Follow Bret Contraras, he understands women's bodies like no other! I'm quite often at the gym with his book, and there are countless helpful YouTube vids.
You need to study, and most of all be patient.0 -
Springfield1970 wrote: »You don't need a personal trainer! Not with the Internet and people going you good advice on MFP.
You need to keep records and be meticulous and find out for yourself.
Follow Bret Contraras, he understands women's bodies like no other! I'm quite often at the gym with his book, and there are countless helpful YouTube vids.
You need to study, and most of all be patient.
Yeah I'm studying I always watch YouTube videos and read things a lot. I pretty much learned all this myself. Being patient is so hard haha I want results asap. Cool, I'll look him up
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Wow guys it's been ages lol k so I ended up going on a bulk and just started cutting lol0
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jaysiekemso wrote: »
It went from feeling flabby to okay in around 2 months. It felt taut after around 8. But I'm a lazy exercizer - I sit on a pilates ball all day (which is fantatic for core muscles and posture) and walk. Someone who worked at it would be faster.
It was my strong impression that after weight loss (40 pounds), my belly had extra 'space' in it like it did after I had by babies (I gained and lost 50 pounds each time). The fat that had taken up room was gone, but the muscles and skin were too large. It was straight flab. I know the muscles and skin shrank back to an appropriate size. I think - with no evidence - that the cells in which the fat was stored also got smaller over time. In any case - I looked fine again. 3 years later I still look fine and not flabby.
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