deadlifts and barbell rows

4leighbee
4leighbee Posts: 1,275 Member
edited November 14 in Fitness and Exercise
Do you return the bar to the floor between every single repetition? (I'm doing three-five sets of five reps, depending on the time I have in the gym.) That is what I have read to do and it's messing with my sense of efficiency. Also, I lose form those last six inches to the ground (back rounds out), so I don't even know if it's smart for me to do that. Thanks for your advice.

Replies

  • asdowe13
    asdowe13 Posts: 1,951 Member
    Deadlifts - Yes
    Rows - I don't - but those doing heavy weights sometimes do
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    For dead lifts, yes...if you're rounding your back you need to dial back on the weight. If you're doing straight leg deads the plates should just touch the ground before you pull again.

    For rows, it depends...Pendlay rows yes, standard BB rows, no.
  • foursirius
    foursirius Posts: 321 Member
    Potentially yes depending on the type of row you are doing. A strict bent row (i.e bent at 90 degrees), also know as a pendlay row, you would return to the ground. A standard barbell row has a lot of variation on the angle you want to hit and those you sometimes will not be returning to the ground. The deadlift is yes to the ground.
  • Josalinn
    Josalinn Posts: 1,066 Member
    I use a website called http://www.weighttraining.com/ to help me track my workouts. You don't need to sign up or anything, but if look through their exercises, most have demonstration videos. I think Adowe, Cwolfman13, and Foursirius pretty much nailed your question, but I also know that it is hard to find decent videos for form.

    Good Luck =)
  • 4leighbee
    4leighbee Posts: 1,275 Member
    Great thanks for the input. I will read up on the rows more - didn't realize there was so much variety. I will also check out that website. I've gone through some videos - not enough.

    Re: My back rounding out at the very end of deadlifts/rows /returning the bar to the ground ... the really weight does seem manageable for me on the deadlifts. I've been purposefully keeping it low so I could get form right, since I'm still pretty new at this. It's like the angle that my foot and shin makes - and the angle my torso and my quad makes don't get any more acute, lol ... it seems like a flexibility issue, which is weird because I'm pretty flexible. Maybe I just have super-short arms. (Ohhhhh...sad.) I will have someone at the gym look at it, because I'm sure my description of why I have to round my back was not a good one.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    4leighbee wrote: »
    Great thanks for the input. I will read up on the rows more - didn't realize there was so much variety. I will also check out that website. I've gone through some videos - not enough.

    Re: My back rounding out at the very end of deadlifts/rows /returning the bar to the ground ... the really weight does seem manageable for me on the deadlifts. I've been purposefully keeping it low so I could get form right, since I'm still pretty new at this. It's like the angle that my foot and shin makes - and the angle my torso and my quad makes don't get any more acute, lol ... it seems like a flexibility issue, which is weird because I'm pretty flexible. Maybe I just have super-short arms. (Ohhhhh...sad.) I will have someone at the gym look at it, because I'm sure my description of why I have to round my back was not a good one.

    You should probably do some mobility work. Also, with shorter arms you may want to look into Sumo Dead-lifts.
  • zipa78
    zipa78 Posts: 354 Member
    Since the negative phase of the deadlift isn't really that important you could just drop the weights, provided that your gym has a proper platform and bumper plates. Lower it down as far as you feel good and then just drop/freefall it.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    If you can pick up a deadlift with a neutral spine, you can put it back down with a neutral spine. It's the same motion, just in reverse. It can't be a mobility problem if you were able to pick it up just fine, y'know? If your back is rounding you're just having form breakdown and it will take practice is all. But yeah, any form of conventional or sumo deadlift will always return the bar to the ground. It's called a deadlift because it's dead weight on the ground. Only exception would be a similar deadlift accessory type movement like RDLs or SLDLs.

    Only with pendlay rows do you return the bar to the ground. Any other type I've ever seen or heard of does not hit the ground each time. There may exist some other obscure form out there but I've never heard of it.
  • 4leighbee
    4leighbee Posts: 1,275 Member
    DopeItUp wrote: »
    If you can pick up a deadlift with a neutral spine, you can put it back down with a neutral spine. It's the same motion, just in reverse. It can't be a mobility problem if you were able to pick it up just fine, y'know? ....

    Great point. I bet I'm rounded at the start, too, and just not thinking about it at that point of the lift. I will ask someone to watch me tomorrow (if I can move from today's workout).
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    With deadlifts, you could set them up on another set of plates or small blocks. The weight you are lifting plays a big role in how far over you are bending. This article goes into it a bit more: https://www.t-nation.com/training/deadlifts-dirty-secret
  • blankiefinder
    blankiefinder Posts: 3,599 Member
    4leighbee wrote: »
    Great thanks for the input. I will read up on the rows more - didn't realize there was so much variety. I will also check out that website. I've gone through some videos - not enough.

    Re: My back rounding out at the very end of deadlifts/rows /returning the bar to the ground ... the really weight does seem manageable for me on the deadlifts. I've been purposefully keeping it low so I could get form right, since I'm still pretty new at this. It's like the angle that my foot and shin makes - and the angle my torso and my quad makes don't get any more acute, lol ... it seems like a flexibility issue, which is weird because I'm pretty flexible. Maybe I just have super-short arms. (Ohhhhh...sad.) I will have someone at the gym look at it, because I'm sure my description of why I have to round my back was not a good one.

    Since I can't lift the bar plus 45's (and therefore don't get the extra height that comes with those weights on the ends), I use step up risers, fitting them so that the weight (I'm using the pre-loaded 35's, that is all I can manage right now) with the weight rings coming down inside of the risers. I used 3 risers per side yesterday.

    Very crude and quick illustration:
    k3yd9gsrvnje.png

    (the ovals under the bars being your feet o:) )
  • 4leighbee
    4leighbee Posts: 1,275 Member
    Well, if it is shorter arms causing the trouble, this could be a solution which would allow me to go through the entire lift for each rep without breaking form.
  • MrGonzo05
    MrGonzo05 Posts: 1,120 Member
    edited March 2015
    For deadlifts, yes, return the bar to the floor and do not take advantage of any "bounce" for the next rep. You should always lift the bar off the floor from a dead stop, hence the term deadlift. You may want to completely reset each rep until you ingrain this pattern.

    For barbell rows, you do NOT typically return the bar to the floor, but it depends on the type of row you are doing. A Pendlay row does start from the floor. Here is a video showing how to perform a barbell row.

    http://youtu.be/2hbnw_wJ5-0

    This is me performing the same lift.

    http://youtu.be/PbN58XVjqGI
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    4leighbee wrote: »
    DopeItUp wrote: »
    If you can pick up a deadlift with a neutral spine, you can put it back down with a neutral spine. It's the same motion, just in reverse. It can't be a mobility problem if you were able to pick it up just fine, y'know? ....

    Great point. I bet I'm rounded at the start, too, and just not thinking about it at that point of the lift. I will ask someone to watch me tomorrow (if I can move from today's workout).

    Taking video is a great idea too, regardless. Even after a couple years I still video myself all of the time.
  • DopeItUp
    DopeItUp Posts: 18,771 Member
    edited March 2015
    4leighbee wrote: »
    Well, if it is shorter arms causing the trouble, this could be a solution which would allow me to go through the entire lift for each rep without breaking form.

    Unless you have crazy short arms you can still deadlift just fine. I'm tall (6'3") with relatively short arms so I have to conventional deadlift with a much more horizontal back and higher hips to keep my back neutral. This makes it harder but I am able to maintain proper technique. Having said that, switching to sumo made it much easier for me, especially given my proportions (tall, tall torso, with short arms is basically the worst possible conventional deadlift combination possible). I'm able to keep my back much more vertical and therefore it is not subject to rounding at all.

    Having said all that, without actually seeing a video of you I'm only guessing at what the problem is. Something simple like hamstring mobility could be the sole cause of your back rounding.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    DopeItUp wrote: »
    If you can pick up a deadlift with a neutral spine, you can put it back down with a neutral spine. It's the same motion, just in reverse. It can't be a mobility problem if you were able to pick it up just fine, y'know? If your back is rounding you're just having form breakdown and it will take practice is all. But yeah, any form of conventional or sumo deadlift will always return the bar to the ground. It's called a deadlift because it's dead weight on the ground. Only exception would be a similar deadlift accessory type movement like RDLs or SLDLs.

    Only with pendlay rows do you return the bar to the ground. Any other type I've ever seen or heard of does not hit the ground each time. There may exist some other obscure form out there but I've never heard of it.

    nods
    Taking video is a great idea too, regardless. Even after a couple years I still video myself all of the time.
    nods again.

    I video every 2-3 weeks.
  • ashleycde
    ashleycde Posts: 622 Member
    How much are you lifting? Unless you reach a certain weight for the bar to be high enough off the ground, you're going to compromise your form trying to deadlift off the ground, because you have to bend too far over, causing your back to round. Stack some plates on either side, and put the barbell on these stacked plates. This should fix the problem. My starting deadlift with Stronglifts 5x5 was 95 lbs and I had to stack 2 45 lbs plates on each side to get it to the right height. Then you can set the deadlift down on the ground each rep (or on the plates, rather). For barbell row I don't return the bar to ground until I finish my set. I'm still new to lifting as well, but I've had a trainer from my friend's gym helping me with form and technique. Last time the trainer wasn't there and I worked in with someone, and he gave me some pointers as well. If they're willing to help, learn from other lifters. From my experience, gym people are really nice.
  • 4leighbee
    4leighbee Posts: 1,275 Member
    DopeItUp wrote: »
    4leighbee wrote: »
    Well, if it is shorter arms causing the trouble, this could be a solution which would allow me to go through the entire lift for each rep without breaking form.

    Unless you have crazy short arms you can still deadlift just fine...

    This caught my eye, so I thought I'd just mention in case I had created some strange visuals out there ... I really don't have freaky short arms like a T-Rex. I have pretty normal arms. :) Okay - now I will return to reading ...
  • 4leighbee
    4leighbee Posts: 1,275 Member
    ashleycde wrote: »
    How much are you lifting? Unless you reach a certain weight for the bar to be high enough off the ground, you're going to compromise your form trying to deadlift off the ground, because you have to bend too far over, causing your back to round. Stack some plates on either side, and put the barbell on these stacked plates. This should fix the problem. My starting deadlift with Stronglifts 5x5 was 95 lbs and I had to stack 2 45 lbs plates on each side to get it to the right height. Then you can set the deadlift down on the ground each rep (or on the plates, rather). For barbell row I don't return the bar to ground until I finish my set. I'm still new to lifting as well, but I've had a trainer from my friend's gym helping me with form and technique. Last time the trainer wasn't there and I worked in with someone, and he gave me some pointers as well. If they're willing to help, learn from other lifters. From my experience, gym people are really nice.

    Okay - yep. I'm only at 30 + the bar - would that be 75? (Seems like a shorter bar than at the bench press and the squat.) It doesn't feel like a lot of weight. I'm still a bit nervous to do a lot of weight because I don't have all these form issues resolved. This is a good idea - plates or the steps or something to bring the bar up off the ground some. I am rushing around today - checking in between episodes of Supermom - but thank you each for your comments and suggestions. I will look at every link and watch the video(s). Thanks very much.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    4leighbee wrote: »
    Do you return the bar to the floor between every single repetition?
    Depends.

    Are they the type where you do end and start at a dead stop, or from a hang? I then follow that consistently for the entire set, or prescribed series of sets.
  • 4leighbee
    4leighbee Posts: 1,275 Member
    Lol ... I thought you guys might appreciate this.

    I was just watching videos on barbell rows, and it occurred to me that because the weight plate with the largest circumference that I use is only ten pounds (pretty small diameter), returning the bar to the ground for me means my arms have further to go to the ground than yours ... by at least a few inches. That may have an impact on why I struggle keeping a neutral back for those last six inches or so ... I literally have further to go to get to the ground because I have itty bitty weights on the bar, lol. Either way, I have worked it out. I'm feeling great and getting more experience and building weight every week. :smile: Have a great night!
  • BraveNewdGirl
    BraveNewdGirl Posts: 937 Member
    4leighbee wrote: »
    Lol ... I thought you guys might appreciate this.

    I was just watching videos on barbell rows, and it occurred to me that because the weight plate with the largest circumference that I use is only ten pounds (pretty small diameter), returning the bar to the ground for me means my arms have further to go to the ground than yours ... by at least a few inches. That may have an impact on why I struggle keeping a neutral back for those last six inches or so ... I literally have further to go to get to the ground because I have itty bitty weights on the bar, lol. Either way, I have worked it out. I'm feeling great and getting more experience and building weight every week. :smile: Have a great night!
    I'm only using 10s for my barbell rows as of yet too because I'm quite new to lifting as well. That being the case, my rows look a lot like this:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/bent-over-barbell-row

    I just found that returning the weight to the floor every single rep as per StrongLifts 5x5's recommendations time meant bending my knees too deeply. This definitely lets me maintain a neutral back and keeps the legs out of it more.
  • 4leighbee
    4leighbee Posts: 1,275 Member
    Yes this is what I've been doing for now too. Feels good. Good to hear someone else with a similar issue! Thx.
  • DawnEmbers
    DawnEmbers Posts: 2,451 Member
    For the issue of using smaller than 45 plates, I stack plates on each side. Do this for warmup sets on deadlifts and on rows in general. With row I stack a 35 on top of a 45 and use the 25s on the bar for the lift.

    That is what has worked for me so far.
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