Cholesterol numbers moving the wrong way on low carb/ high protein diet

pwrchrd
pwrchrd Posts: 25 Member
edited November 15 in Health and Weight Loss
Greetings,

Been on this journey for nearly three months using a low carb / high protein/fat diet to change some bad cholesterol numbers;

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The weight is coming off, slowly, but my cholesterol numbers are not improving;

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Unfortunately, I did not get a particle size test in my baseline so I don't know if those numbers have improved. Except for triglycerides, all the numbers are terrible. Am I dieting my way to a heart attack?

All my reading says low carb should reduce insulin response and improve cholesterol ratios. My Dr. says, not everyone responds that way. He wants to put my Zetia but says he doesn't expect more than a 5-10% reduction. Seems like a lot of pill swallowing for a 5-10% reduction. Statins, all types, cause me severe muscle pain in my shoulders.

Any thoughts?

Depressed!
«13

Replies

  • Robertus
    Robertus Posts: 558 Member
    How much dietary cholesterol are you eating?
  • MyiahRose
    MyiahRose Posts: 183 Member
    If you do not plan on doing low carb for the rest of your life then stop now. No need to do a fad diet. A calorie deficit with balanced macros will do you well.
  • pwrchrd
    pwrchrd Posts: 25 Member
    Dietary cholesterol has been pretty high, but I read that consuming cholesterol isn't as bad as once thought. Most likely from the up tick in egg consumption for the morning protein.

    6na1eij5p5hl.png
  • HeidiCooksSupper
    HeidiCooksSupper Posts: 3,831 Member
    How much of your fat is saturated fat? This article explains the differences http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/replacing-saturated-fat-with-polyunsaturated-fat-linked-with-lower-risk-of-heart-disease/
  • pwrchrd
    pwrchrd Posts: 25 Member
    Saturated fat numbers;

    u371tj6ogo3p.png
  • girlviernes
    girlviernes Posts: 2,402 Member
    how's your physical activity?
  • pwrchrd
    pwrchrd Posts: 25 Member
    5+ days a week, 1 hr (or more) a day, average cals burned 600-900 hr!
  • elphie754
    elphie754 Posts: 7,574 Member
    pwrchrd wrote: »
    5+ days a week, 1 hr (or more) a day, average cals burned 600-900 hr!

    That burn sounds really high.
  • KillerCanuck
    KillerCanuck Posts: 1
    I'm no expert but there are 2 different kinds of cholesterol. The small kind is really bad for you and clogs arteries whereas the big kind is totally healthy. Once a dr checks your cholesterol they can then do another test to see if it's the bad kind. I did low carb high fat for a while and increased my good (large) cholesterol. I couldn't keep it up though due to the low carb making me feel depressed over time. Fat isn't the killer at all, it's the sugars! You should try and watch the documentary Cereal Killers it's all about a man who goes on a lower carb really high fat diet and the results are incredible. His cholesterol goes way up but after the dr's do some further testing they find it too be the good (large) kind. I hope this can be of some help! :)
  • pwrchrd
    pwrchrd Posts: 25 Member
    Yea the burn is high, and I wear a heartrate monitor. It's a gym that does HIIT workouts, kickboxing, circuit, kettlebells, e.g. P90X style, with trainers that really motivate you!

    Yes it would have been good to know what my cholesterol particle make up was in November so I could have compared it to my March results. Particle pattern "A"s are supposedly better than "B"s but I am not sleeping comfortably with these numbers.
  • Justygirl77
    Justygirl77 Posts: 385 Member
    I had this man's book on my shelf many years before I recently read it. He has a chapter on how dehydration is the cause of high cholesterol. Simply rehydrating the body (especially drinking 2C of water about 20min before a meal to hydrate digestive organs prevents the body from building up cholesterol on the arteries. To reverse cholesterol build up, add in walking 1hr 2X per day (or equivalent exercise) to keep a 24/7 metabolic burn. Here's the link if you want to check it out:
    The book is called The Body's Many Cries for Water, and was very interesting/helpful to me!
    http://watercure.com/
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Justygirl77 wrote: »
    I had this man's book on my shelf many years before I recently read it. He has a chapter on how dehydration is the cause of high cholesterol. Simply rehydrating the body (especially drinking 2C of water about 20min before a meal to hydrate digestive organs prevents the body from building up cholesterol on the arteries. To reverse cholesterol build up, add in walking 1hr 2X per day (or equivalent exercise) to keep a 24/7 metabolic burn. Here's the link if you want to check it out:
    The book is called The Body's Many Cries for Water, and was very interesting/helpful to me!
    http://watercure.com/

    That guy also claims that dehydration contributes to cancer and AIDS. He has no peer-reviewed research. I would proceed with extreme caution.
  • steelcity74
    steelcity74 Posts: 2 Member
    so, KillerCanuck is on the right path. Cholesterol is necessary for proper brain function, the theory that it's bad for you is totally incorrect. Sugar causes inflammation in the arteries and the cholesterol responds to help repair. This in turn builds up as part of the healing process not because cholesterol is the bad guy. With your cal intake and exercise routine you have no real concern for your cholesterol numbers. If you still want to try to lower, a fiber supplement like metamucil will help. One to two glasses daily will remove cholesterol. However, looking at your numbers, there is nothing that I would be concerned about. Many cardiologists are now recognizing the fact that cholesterol is genetic and not controlled by diet and exercise. Of course diet and exercise will have some effect but when your genetic makeup tells your body to hold on to it, your body will hold on to it. Be careful with anything under 1200 cal/day. Your body will work to break down itself to keep it at functioning levels. By all means necessary, stay away from the meds - that will start an avalanche of problems. Of course this is just my 2 cents worth. Most doctors are fed the same info in med school and by pharma companies so they don't see outside the box. I'm not a doctor but I do have a BS in Sports Medicine and I'm a certified strength and conditioning specialist through the NSCA. I also read many books about this to assist in keeping myself healthy.
  • Justygirl77
    Justygirl77 Posts: 385 Member
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Justygirl77 wrote: »
    I had this man's book on my shelf many years before I recently read it. He has a chapter on how dehydration is the cause of high cholesterol. Simply rehydrating the body (especially drinking 2C of water about 20min before a meal to hydrate digestive organs prevents the body from building up cholesterol on the arteries. To reverse cholesterol build up, add in walking 1hr 2X per day (or equivalent exercise) to keep a 24/7 metabolic burn. Here's the link if you want to check it out:
    The book is called The Body's Many Cries for Water, and was very interesting/helpful to me!
    http://watercure.com/

    That guy also claims that dehydration contributes to cancer and AIDS. He has no peer-reviewed research. I would proceed with extreme caution.
    What he said on that subject is that he believes that the research into that disease should proceed in that direction.

  • PeachyCarol
    PeachyCarol Posts: 8,029 Member
    I'm not an expert, nor am I on a low carb diet. I've just had a brief conversation with my doctor about this after I had bad numbers come back on a previous physical.

    She (my doctor) is on a statin. She eats a good diet and exercises. You know what her problem is? Genetic. She, after reviewing my diet with me says that my problem is likely the same.

    Sometimes, we just get dealt a lousy genetic hand. The saturated fat might not be good in this case, but I don't know enough how that plays into everything to say one way or another.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Justygirl77 wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Justygirl77 wrote: »
    I had this man's book on my shelf many years before I recently read it. He has a chapter on how dehydration is the cause of high cholesterol. Simply rehydrating the body (especially drinking 2C of water about 20min before a meal to hydrate digestive organs prevents the body from building up cholesterol on the arteries. To reverse cholesterol build up, add in walking 1hr 2X per day (or equivalent exercise) to keep a 24/7 metabolic burn. Here's the link if you want to check it out:
    The book is called The Body's Many Cries for Water, and was very interesting/helpful to me!
    http://watercure.com/

    That guy also claims that dehydration contributes to cancer and AIDS. He has no peer-reviewed research. I would proceed with extreme caution.
    What he said on that subject is that he believes that the research into that disease should proceed in that direction.

    Based on what? His claim that water will cure MS doesn't seem to be based on any research, at least none that can be found by those seeking to document his claims. In fact, there is no peer-reviewed research associated with any of his claims. Why should research on cancer and AIDS go into those directions? His hunch? Is it anything like his hunch that dehydration causes Alzheimer's Disease?

    What research supports the claim that "Simply rehydrating the body (especially drinking 2C of water about 20min before a meal to hydrate digestive organs prevents the body from building up cholesterol on the arteries"? This is advice that you gave to the OP, supposedly from that book. Where is this documented?
  • Justygirl77
    Justygirl77 Posts: 385 Member
    OP, I noticed a page on the site addressing cholesterol and dehydration you might find interesting...

    http://watercure.com/sci_myth.html
  • girlchemist1
    girlchemist1 Posts: 15 Member
    You could go on tomorrow and end up with a cholesterol level similar to the first test. You can't really say much with two points. Math says three makes a line, and therefore demonstrates a trend.

    That beung said, genetically high cholesterol is hard to overcome. My mom takes zetia and it dropped her level in half. Her dad died at 39 of a surprise massive heart attack and my mom has over 10 stents keeping arteries open at age 62. (Thank god I was adopted.)

    If this runs in your family, it might be part of a good plan for you. If it doesn't or your unsure, I bet waiting a few more months to be sure won't harm you too much.
  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
    Justygirl77 wrote: »
    OP, I noticed a page on the site addressing cholesterol and dehydration you might find interesting...

    http://watercure.com/sci_myth.html

    Here's another fascinating one from his website about how AIDS isn't caused by a virus. On top of everything, he's an AIDS-denialist. I thought you said he just thought it needed further research, but he seems pretty sure of himself here. Wonder what he was basing his theories on because it wasn't peer-reviewed research.

    http://watercure.com/sci_aids.html
  • _Terrapin_
    _Terrapin_ Posts: 4,301 Member
    OP(this is you pwrchrd) have an undesirable cholesterol number, undesirable LDL number, your triglycerides have improved to desirable, and your HDL number is borderline. One of the issues for people eating high fat is 'what type'. Saturated fats raise LDL's.

    So something to be mindful of is this: typically, how do certain fats make those numbers move. Saturated fats move triglycerides down comparable to Omega -6-poly unsaturated fats, and monounsaturated fats. The tradeoff is saturated fat raises LDL's more then Omega 6 polyunsaturated fat, Omega-3 poly unsaturated fat, monosaturated fat, and even trans-fatty acids. So you can have saturated fats in your intake, but monitor this number since it is the one which will move your numbers the directions you are seeing from your last blood screening. "The pendulum swinging" has a negative effect when people hear 'high fat as a MACROnutrient is good' when in reality it is more fat in moderation(hint hint something less then your current intake) with carbs and protein is probably safer long term when looking at these numbers. If you ignore the type of fat you consume then your numbers have the chance to look like what you're seeing.

    For your situation, consider increasing monounsaturated fats. Olive and conola oils, macadamia nuts. And/or increase the poly also(fish and plants). This isn't a drastic change to your current intake but a tweaking.

    Second to last- -> your intake maybe dial back to 40% fat, eat more of the above, reduce some of the saturated fat, and see how the bloodwork goes. You may sacrifice some weight loss by replacing your fat with some carbs, but then coming in first place for weight loss and being at room temperature sort of isn't the combination you are going for; seriously, just reduce back the saturated fat, add more monounsaturated fats, and the number ought to be better in 3 months.

    Last, small changes can yield the result you are looking for and avoid the statins. Best of luck.

    Oh, the February numbers for me n=1 total cholesterol 196, Triglycerides 90, HDL 52, LDL 126. The small changes above I mentioned above pushed the HDL number up a little, LDL's down by 10, and the triglycerides off the FU&^*()% chart. More then happy with my results.
  • SwankyTomato
    SwankyTomato Posts: 442 Member
    Throwing this out to you, since my dh had a heart attack in 2012 & a triple bypass at 45, due to clogged arteries from his abnormally high cholesterol.

    He goes to a "lipid clinic" for his cholesterol now. He has what they call metabolic syndrome. His cholesterol readings were very high when he was in his 20's and would be anywhere from 300-500.

    He would also get pain from statins.

    Right now he is taking fish oil and a statin which seems to be OK, since having a triple bypass. Hmmmm....

    My 2 cents on this cholesterol matter is that if you have had abnormally high readings most of your life they should do a heart cath test. He had stress tests till the cows came home and it showed nothing.
  • MysticRealm
    MysticRealm Posts: 1,264 Member
    pwrchrd wrote: »
    Yea the burn is high, and I wear a heartrate monitor. It's a gym that does HIIT workouts, kickboxing, circuit, kettlebells, e.g. P90X style, with trainers that really motivate you!

    Since no one seems to have mentioned this yet. To my knowledge heart rate monitors are designed for steady state cardio. If you use them for things like HIIT or kickboxing and such it will give very exaggerated calorie burns.
  • badgerbadger1
    badgerbadger1 Posts: 954 Member
    Listen to your Doctor and not random people on the interwebs.
  • runnrchic
    runnrchic Posts: 130 Member
    I eat about 60% carbs and my good cholesterol is 71, ratio is 2.3. I do not eat many meats and get most proteins from plants. Try just cutting back on animal products and replace them with plant proteins.
  • Robertus
    Robertus Posts: 558 Member
    edited March 2015
    pwrchrd wrote: »
    Dietary cholesterol has been pretty high, but I read that consuming cholesterol isn't as bad as once thought. Most likely from the up tick in egg consumption for the morning protein.

    6na1eij5p5hl.png
    Too high. Dietary cholesterol definitely has beneficial effects, but too much is still too much. Some people started saying that the consumption of dietary cholesterol did not really affect cholesterol levels in the body based on a meta-analysis of studies that combined data and may have confounded various factors from different studies without proper controls to support such a conclusion. See this doctor's blog, who says dietary cholesterol is indeed as bad as ever:

    http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/page/2/http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/page/2/
  • Robertus
    Robertus Posts: 558 Member
    pwrchrd wrote: »
    Saturated fat numbers;

    u371tj6ogo3p.png
    Again, too high.

  • allyphoe
    allyphoe Posts: 618 Member
    edited March 2015
    FWIW, after that avocado study came out in January, I ate an avocado every single day for 8 weeks. Knocked 58 points off my total cholesterol, with no change in HDL. That's a much bigger change than the study saw, so YMMV. Previous rounds of low fat and low carb gave me no significant change in cholesterol, nor did overall weight loss.

    I don't particularly care for avocado, but it has no apparent side effects!

    ETA: I had been running 40/30/30 fat/protein/carb, but with the avocado, I find it hard to keep my fat under 45%. 25% carbs for me is 110-120g, so not particularly low carb.
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  • Robertus
    Robertus Posts: 558 Member
    MrM27 wrote: »
    ... We know that dietary cholesterol doesn't have a big impact on HDL and LDL ...
    Do we really know that? I've heard people say that, but I've also heard doctors say dietary cholesterol is indeed very important, at least for those who have less of a genetic predisposition. See the link I posted above for one physician who strongly disputes those who claim dietary cholesterol does not affect blood cholesterol: http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/page/2/http://www.pcrm.org/nbBlog/index.php/page/2/

    I am no expert about this stuff, by the way, but all of the conflicting misinformation about nutrition makes me wary of anything I read on the Internet, including the link I posted above.
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