Why counting calories could be making you fatter.
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the 173 pounds I'm down from counting calories all whilst eating chocolate, ice cream and cake in large quantities must be all in my imagination.0
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I think that's one marguerite pizza and sex isn't the big calorie burner that people like to kid themselves into thinking is a reasonable substitute for actual exercise.
I've found that counting calories is good for people that have not an instinctual sense of quantity.
2 volumes are the same volume but with two different nutrient densities isn't doing anyone any favours by trying to pretend they are the same. They aren't.
Eating until you are full only works in the old days when meat, fats, and sweets were a rare treat. Now I must measure everything and eat at least 3 servings of some type of beans per day. And when I say 3 servings, that is actually 9 servings by what they list on the package of dried beans since beans for me are a meat substitute. A meat substitute that tastes better than meat at any rate. You'll see a very high carb count eating a lot of dried beans but most of those carbs are fibre so they aren't digested and don't contribute calories.
For my other meat, milk, cheese, and egg substitutes I use tofu, soy protein isolate, brewer's yeast, agar agar (binder), and vital wheat gluten.0 -
No, they don't. That link you provided proved my point. Thanks!!!herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
No, most foods do not include an "allowance" for TEF. You are completely wrong about that.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Depending on the foods, it can be significant. I am not sure how many less calories rare meat has vs well done, but there was a recent study released specifically on almonds. Almonds are apparently very hard for the body to digest, and some of the calories just aren't available. I believe that is said that 1/3 of the calories in almonds aren't digested/used by the body. Considering the standard 1 ounce serving of almonds has almost 200 calories, that means it is really only about 134 calories. That is not something to dismiss...I often eat an ounce of almonds, and some days eat even more.EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »Ummmm ....
"...a rare steak is harder to digest than a well-done one - so will be less calorific."
I can't.
It's true. Raw meat (rare steak is just a raw meat meat sandwich) is harder to digest and produces fewer net calories than cooked meat.
I get the concept, but I can't imagine that the difference would be that great. Not enough that people would notice any signifigant weight loss if they ate the same calories but in harder to digest foods.
There was also an article on resistant starch and rice recently. Cooling rice after it is cooked lowers the calories by about 50%. And even if you later reheat it, the calories still stay lower.
These are just a few examples off the top of my head. This stuff matters.
Not really. You just adjust your count accordingly.
It's majoring in the minors - if you count your calories, adjusting for TEF if it's not already been accounted for, and maintain a deficit, which will depend on individual needs and circumstances, you will lose weight. Everything else is window dressing.
Not really? So you think it is not significant that chilling starchy foods before eating can reduce calories by 50% is insignificant? Maybe you have a fast metabolism and can eat enough that it truly doesn't matter...if so, you're lucky. I am not so lucky... 50% is very significant to me.
And how does mfp adjust the calorie count for how you cook your meat? Or your rice or pasta? Or the fact that 1/3 of the calories in almonds can't be used by the body? Oh, that's right...it doesn't. So it is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible for the average person to simply "adjust their count" accordingly.
Nope. Because it won't in reality. Most foods already have an allowance for TEF built in.
It's a nice bonus, but it doesn't change the fundamentals.
And it is not just TEF we are talking about. In the case of almonds, it is that the body just can't access the calories at all...NOT that the body burns more digesting them. They are never absorbed in the first place.
Actually they do.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-food-manufacturers/
Food labelling uses the Altwater system that splits the food down by composition and assigns calorie values to them based on nutrients. Those values include an allowance for thermic effect, although, like the whole system, it isn't precise.
As for your reduction in calories, so far you've shown that the number for almonds may be wrong, in which case it will simply be adjusted downwards, and referred to an experiment on rice which promised 50% reductions in calories, but which has so far only shown 10-12%, which may or may not be significant. So about a 20 Kcal saving on a standard portion.
So, yeah. Majoring in the minors and no real difference.
The Atwater system attempts to measure how much energy the food provides (that's why it subtracts fiber...it is not digested by the body, and thus provides no energy)...it completely ignores how much energy the body uses to process and digest it. THAT is the thermic effect. Atwater measures (or tries to) calories in. It ignores calories out...which is TEF.
And the rice depends on variety. And it is still significant...even with the worst variety. If somebody could eat 10-12% more calories without gaining based on choosing the right foods, they would probably call that significant.0 -
quiksylver296 wrote: »Soup is an easy habit to get into. 'It's a good lunch and fills you up more than just eating the ingredients on their own.
'This is because it has the added ingredient of salty water, which fills you up.'
This might be my favorite part. I'm just gonna drink salt water from now on. That sounds like an awesome new diet plan. (For those who might not recognize, total sarcasm. Do NOT do this.)EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »
\quiksylver296 wrote: »Soup is an easy habit to get into. 'It's a good lunch and fills you up more than just eating the ingredients on their own.
'This is because it has the added ingredient of salty water, which fills you up.'
This might be my favorite part. I'm just gonna drink salt water from now on. That sounds like an awesome new diet plan. (For those who might not recognize, total sarcasm. Do NOT do this.)
HA!! I saw that, too. WT Actual F?EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »
Isn't he just saying that soup ingredients + water is more filling than soup ingredients alone? I think that's pretty non-controversial, and one of the reasons why many consider drinking plenty of water to be important for successful weight loss.EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »
\quiksylver296 wrote: »Soup is an easy habit to get into. 'It's a good lunch and fills you up more than just eating the ingredients on their own.
'This is because it has the added ingredient of salty water, which fills you up.'
This might be my favorite part. I'm just gonna drink salt water from now on. That sounds like an awesome new diet plan. (For those who might not recognize, total sarcasm. Do NOT do this.)
HA!! I saw that, too. WT Actual F?
Drinking water is good. Eating soup for 'salty water' to fill you up? No.
Set your face to "stunned" friendo, this is true. Eating soup as an appetizer reduces entree calorie intake by over 20%. The same phenomenon of volume-associated satiety ("volumetrics") is seen with water and air as well as broth.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2128765/
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/4/448.full
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/72/2/361.full0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »
No, they don't. That link you provided proved my point. Thanks!!!herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
No, most foods do not include an "allowance" for TEF. You are completely wrong about that.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Depending on the foods, it can be significant. I am not sure how many less calories rare meat has vs well done, but there was a recent study released specifically on almonds. Almonds are apparently very hard for the body to digest, and some of the calories just aren't available. I believe that is said that 1/3 of the calories in almonds aren't digested/used by the body. Considering the standard 1 ounce serving of almonds has almost 200 calories, that means it is really only about 134 calories. That is not something to dismiss...I often eat an ounce of almonds, and some days eat even more.EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »Ummmm ....
"...a rare steak is harder to digest than a well-done one - so will be less calorific."
I can't.
It's true. Raw meat (rare steak is just a raw meat meat sandwich) is harder to digest and produces fewer net calories than cooked meat.
I get the concept, but I can't imagine that the difference would be that great. Not enough that people would notice any signifigant weight loss if they ate the same calories but in harder to digest foods.
There was also an article on resistant starch and rice recently. Cooling rice after it is cooked lowers the calories by about 50%. And even if you later reheat it, the calories still stay lower.
These are just a few examples off the top of my head. This stuff matters.
Not really. You just adjust your count accordingly.
It's majoring in the minors - if you count your calories, adjusting for TEF if it's not already been accounted for, and maintain a deficit, which will depend on individual needs and circumstances, you will lose weight. Everything else is window dressing.
Not really? So you think it is not significant that chilling starchy foods before eating can reduce calories by 50% is insignificant? Maybe you have a fast metabolism and can eat enough that it truly doesn't matter...if so, you're lucky. I am not so lucky... 50% is very significant to me.
And how does mfp adjust the calorie count for how you cook your meat? Or your rice or pasta? Or the fact that 1/3 of the calories in almonds can't be used by the body? Oh, that's right...it doesn't. So it is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible for the average person to simply "adjust their count" accordingly.
Nope. Because it won't in reality. Most foods already have an allowance for TEF built in.
It's a nice bonus, but it doesn't change the fundamentals.
And it is not just TEF we are talking about. In the case of almonds, it is that the body just can't access the calories at all...NOT that the body burns more digesting them. They are never absorbed in the first place.
Actually they do.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-food-manufacturers/
Food labelling uses the Altwater system that splits the food down by composition and assigns calorie values to them based on nutrients. Those values include an allowance for thermic effect, although, like the whole system, it isn't precise.
As for your reduction in calories, so far you've shown that the number for almonds may be wrong, in which case it will simply be adjusted downwards, and referred to an experiment on rice which promised 50% reductions in calories, but which has so far only shown 10-12%, which may or may not be significant. So about a 20 Kcal saving on a standard portion.
So, yeah. Majoring in the minors and no real difference.
The Atwater system attempts to measure how much energy the food provides (that's why it subtracts fiber...it is not digested by the body, and thus provides no energy)...it completely ignores how much energy the body uses to process and digest it. THAT is the thermic effect. Atwater measures (or tries to) calories in. It ignores calories out...which is TEF.
And the rice depends on variety. And it is still significant...even with the worst variety. If somebody could eat 10-12% more calories without gaining based on choosing the right foods, they would probably call that significant.
I think you're overestimating how insignificant the impact that would have psychologically. If someone's in it to lose weight in the first place and is still counting calories, it's all well and fine, but for the average person?
Simply look to what diet soda consumption likely does to a great many people. They think they have extra calories to spend elsewhere, and eat to excess.
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EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »Ummmm ....
"...a rare steak is harder to digest than a well-done one - so will be less calorific."
I can't.
It's true. Raw meat (rare steak is just a raw meat meat sandwich) is harder to digest and produces fewer net calories than cooked meat.
Rare =/= raw.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »
No, they don't. That link you provided proved my point. Thanks!!!herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
No, most foods do not include an "allowance" for TEF. You are completely wrong about that.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Depending on the foods, it can be significant. I am not sure how many less calories rare meat has vs well done, but there was a recent study released specifically on almonds. Almonds are apparently very hard for the body to digest, and some of the calories just aren't available. I believe that is said that 1/3 of the calories in almonds aren't digested/used by the body. Considering the standard 1 ounce serving of almonds has almost 200 calories, that means it is really only about 134 calories. That is not something to dismiss...I often eat an ounce of almonds, and some days eat even more.EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »Ummmm ....
"...a rare steak is harder to digest than a well-done one - so will be less calorific."
I can't.
It's true. Raw meat (rare steak is just a raw meat meat sandwich) is harder to digest and produces fewer net calories than cooked meat.
I get the concept, but I can't imagine that the difference would be that great. Not enough that people would notice any signifigant weight loss if they ate the same calories but in harder to digest foods.
There was also an article on resistant starch and rice recently. Cooling rice after it is cooked lowers the calories by about 50%. And even if you later reheat it, the calories still stay lower.
These are just a few examples off the top of my head. This stuff matters.
Not really. You just adjust your count accordingly.
It's majoring in the minors - if you count your calories, adjusting for TEF if it's not already been accounted for, and maintain a deficit, which will depend on individual needs and circumstances, you will lose weight. Everything else is window dressing.
Not really? So you think it is not significant that chilling starchy foods before eating can reduce calories by 50% is insignificant? Maybe you have a fast metabolism and can eat enough that it truly doesn't matter...if so, you're lucky. I am not so lucky... 50% is very significant to me.
And how does mfp adjust the calorie count for how you cook your meat? Or your rice or pasta? Or the fact that 1/3 of the calories in almonds can't be used by the body? Oh, that's right...it doesn't. So it is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible for the average person to simply "adjust their count" accordingly.
Nope. Because it won't in reality. Most foods already have an allowance for TEF built in.
It's a nice bonus, but it doesn't change the fundamentals.
And it is not just TEF we are talking about. In the case of almonds, it is that the body just can't access the calories at all...NOT that the body burns more digesting them. They are never absorbed in the first place.
Actually they do.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-food-manufacturers/
Food labelling uses the Altwater system that splits the food down by composition and assigns calorie values to them based on nutrients. Those values include an allowance for thermic effect, although, like the whole system, it isn't precise.
As for your reduction in calories, so far you've shown that the number for almonds may be wrong, in which case it will simply be adjusted downwards, and referred to an experiment on rice which promised 50% reductions in calories, but which has so far only shown 10-12%, which may or may not be significant. So about a 20 Kcal saving on a standard portion.
So, yeah. Majoring in the minors and no real difference.
The Atwater system attempts to measure how much energy the food provides (that's why it subtracts fiber...it is not digested by the body, and thus provides no energy)...it completely ignores how much energy the body uses to process and digest it. THAT is the thermic effect. Atwater measures (or tries to) calories in. It ignores calories out...which is TEF.
And the rice depends on variety. And it is still significant...even with the worst variety. If somebody could eat 10-12% more calories without gaining based on choosing the right foods, they would probably call that significant.
I think the point is that we can't quantify well enough how TEF, food textures, cooking, reheating, etc. impact caloric impact to the degree that we should be accounting for it in our daily calorie goals. Similar to exercise - most on here would not advocate fully eating back your exercise calories, because it is really hard to get accurate measurements on how much you have burned through exercise. Just think of it as a bonus - rather than eat more almonds, or eat more cooled/reheated starches, just eat the normal amount and if you lose a little more, great. overall the impact isn't going to be so large in the scheme of things that you would be in the position of dangerous under-nourishment.
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I'm not a chemist. Read this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29629761 for the basics then try pubmed for the associated peer-review literature
I fear you are seriously misunderstanding this article.
Reducing blood glucose rises does not in any way suggest a decreased calorie absorption. It means that the food has a lower glycemic index which is a measure independent of the number of calories you absorb.
Making "resistant starches" doesn't reduce the calorie burden, just the insulin-stimulation burden.0 -
It's not a real study...just a tv show experiment written about on a website I never heard of. But the results of that seem to agree with what I was saying. Blood sugar levels rose less with the chilled then reheated pasta than they did with pasta that hadn't been chilled.EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Depending on the foods, it can be significant. I am not sure how many less calories rare meat has vs well done, but there was a recent study released specifically on almonds. Almonds are apparently very hard for the body to digest, and some of the calories just aren't available. I believe that is said that 1/3 of the calories in almonds aren't digested/used by the body. Considering the standard 1 ounce serving of almonds has almost 200 calories, that means it is really only about 134 calories. That is not something to dismiss...I often eat an ounce of almonds, and some days eat even more.EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »Ummmm ....
"...a rare steak is harder to digest than a well-done one - so will be less calorific."
I can't.
It's true. Raw meat (rare steak is just a raw meat meat sandwich) is harder to digest and produces fewer net calories than cooked meat.
I get the concept, but I can't imagine that the difference would be that great. Not enough that people would notice any signifigant weight loss if they ate the same calories but in harder to digest foods.
There was also an article on resistant starch and rice recently. Cooling rice after it is cooked lowers the calories by about 50%. And even if you later reheat it, the calories still stay lower.
These are just a few examples off the top of my head. This stuff matters.
I assume you mean this: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/08/03/158083010/if-almonds-bring-you-joy-enjoy-more-for-fewer-calories
That is great! I think that calorie counts sould be as accurate as possible. That said, some people will see this and assume they can eat almonds, rare steak, reheated pasta/rice and be on the road to health and vitality. I am not certain that is true. There is no gimic, just CICO.
And a calorie is just a calorie. The food may change, and thus the calories may change, but what calories exist are still just calories.
It probably refers to the same study. I just didn't read that specific article.
The problem is some of the calorie count information people who count calories...or even those who don't count calories but use that information to make good choices...rely on is wrong.
http://www.everydayhealth.com/columns/johannah-sakimura-nutrition-sleuth/true-false-does-reheating-pasta-help-you-lose-weight/
What say you to this?
However that is a very poorly written article. She starts talking about things the experiment wasn't even trying to measure...like criticizing it because it only looked at short-term changes in blood sugar and didn't measure long term body fat changes. Of course it only looked at short term changes. Digestion happens over a matter of hours...not months or years.
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KombuchaCat wrote: »I didn't read the article, but when someone mentioned the bullet points, I checked those out:
TV show aired tomorrow night aims to explore science of calories
It's the type of calories we consume - and not the number - that's important
Eating the 'right' kind of calories can fill you up and stave off hunger pangs
Consuming the 'wrong' type will leave you hungry - and probably heavier
However it 's often easier to burn off calories than many of us realise
Show reveals a morning of housework burns as many calories as workout
#1...no idea what the show said
#2...I disagree with in general...unless you look at #3 and #4.
#3...Yup, filling up on protein and fat will keep you feeling full longer
#4...Yup, spending all your calories on sugar and sweets will leave you hungry...which could make you overeat
#5...eh...it depends
#6...could be, depending on how and what you're cleaning
so, my take on it, I don't see anything blatantly "wrong" with their bullet points.
Agree. While a strait calorie in calorie out will help you lose weight you can choose foods that are more nutrient dense that will fill you up and trigger hormones that tell your brain you are full. Thus less food cravings and eating enough while not eating too much is way easier.
This assumes that people are struggling with not being full (or not being satisfied, really) or cravings.0 -
I'm not a chemist. Read this http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29629761 for the basics then try pubmed for the associated peer-review literature
I fear you are seriously misunderstanding this article.
Reducing blood glucose rises does not in any way suggest a decreased calorie absorption. It means that the food has a lower glycemic index which is a measure independent of the number of calories you absorb.
Making "resistant starches" doesn't reduce the calorie burden, just the insulin-stimulation burden.
YES, THIS.
GI is irrelevant to weight loss. If you don't have a medical condition that makes it relevant for your health, ignore it and choose the food that satisfies your nutritional needs and satiety.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Simply look to what diet soda consumption likely does to a great many people. They think they have extra calories to spend elsewhere, and eat to excess.
Great point.0 -
No, what he calls the digestive effect is NOT the thermic effect. They are two completely different things. That is what you are not understanding.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
No, they don't. That link you provided proved my point. Thanks!!!herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
No, most foods do not include an "allowance" for TEF. You are completely wrong about that.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Depending on the foods, it can be significant. I am not sure how many less calories rare meat has vs well done, but there was a recent study released specifically on almonds. Almonds are apparently very hard for the body to digest, and some of the calories just aren't available. I believe that is said that 1/3 of the calories in almonds aren't digested/used by the body. Considering the standard 1 ounce serving of almonds has almost 200 calories, that means it is really only about 134 calories. That is not something to dismiss...I often eat an ounce of almonds, and some days eat even more.EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »Ummmm ....
"...a rare steak is harder to digest than a well-done one - so will be less calorific."
I can't.
It's true. Raw meat (rare steak is just a raw meat meat sandwich) is harder to digest and produces fewer net calories than cooked meat.
I get the concept, but I can't imagine that the difference would be that great. Not enough that people would notice any signifigant weight loss if they ate the same calories but in harder to digest foods.
There was also an article on resistant starch and rice recently. Cooling rice after it is cooked lowers the calories by about 50%. And even if you later reheat it, the calories still stay lower.
These are just a few examples off the top of my head. This stuff matters.
Not really. You just adjust your count accordingly.
It's majoring in the minors - if you count your calories, adjusting for TEF if it's not already been accounted for, and maintain a deficit, which will depend on individual needs and circumstances, you will lose weight. Everything else is window dressing.
Not really? So you think it is not significant that chilling starchy foods before eating can reduce calories by 50% is insignificant? Maybe you have a fast metabolism and can eat enough that it truly doesn't matter...if so, you're lucky. I am not so lucky... 50% is very significant to me.
And how does mfp adjust the calorie count for how you cook your meat? Or your rice or pasta? Or the fact that 1/3 of the calories in almonds can't be used by the body? Oh, that's right...it doesn't. So it is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible for the average person to simply "adjust their count" accordingly.
Nope. Because it won't in reality. Most foods already have an allowance for TEF built in.
It's a nice bonus, but it doesn't change the fundamentals.
And it is not just TEF we are talking about. In the case of almonds, it is that the body just can't access the calories at all...NOT that the body burns more digesting them. They are never absorbed in the first place.
Actually they do.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-food-manufacturers/
Food labelling uses the Altwater system that splits the food down by composition and assigns calorie values to them based on nutrients. Those values include an allowance for thermic effect, although, like the whole system, it isn't precise.
As for your reduction in calories, so far you've shown that the number for almonds may be wrong, in which case it will simply be adjusted downwards, and referred to an experiment on rice which promised 50% reductions in calories, but which has so far only shown 10-12%, which may or may not be significant. So about a 20 Kcal saving on a standard portion.
So, yeah. Majoring in the minors and no real difference.
The Atwater system attempts to measure how much energy the food provides (that's why it subtracts fiber...it is not digested by the body, and thus provides no energy)...it completely ignores how much energy the body uses to process and digest it. THAT is the thermic effect. Atwater measures (or tries to) calories in. It ignores calories out...which is TEF.
And the rice depends on variety. And it is still significant...even with the worst variety. If somebody could eat 10-12% more calories without gaining based on choosing the right foods, they would probably call that significant.
Um... The Atwater system allows for digestive effect, which is part TEF, which is why its different from the Rubner system that doesn't and produces higher values as a result.
http://m.jn.nutrition.org/content/28/6/443.full.pdf
That is supposedly measuring (and not very effectively in some cases) what is not available to the body. All it does is subtract the energy available from the waste products from the energy available from the food. This is where he adjusts for things like insoluble fiber content.
It ignores completely how much energy the body uses to digest food. There is no way it could using his methodology. TEF is a completely separate component.
This has a detailed explanation of the difference. http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.full0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
No, they don't. That link you provided proved my point. Thanks!!!herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
No, most foods do not include an "allowance" for TEF. You are completely wrong about that.herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Depending on the foods, it can be significant. I am not sure how many less calories rare meat has vs well done, but there was a recent study released specifically on almonds. Almonds are apparently very hard for the body to digest, and some of the calories just aren't available. I believe that is said that 1/3 of the calories in almonds aren't digested/used by the body. Considering the standard 1 ounce serving of almonds has almost 200 calories, that means it is really only about 134 calories. That is not something to dismiss...I often eat an ounce of almonds, and some days eat even more.EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »Ummmm ....
"...a rare steak is harder to digest than a well-done one - so will be less calorific."
I can't.
It's true. Raw meat (rare steak is just a raw meat meat sandwich) is harder to digest and produces fewer net calories than cooked meat.
I get the concept, but I can't imagine that the difference would be that great. Not enough that people would notice any signifigant weight loss if they ate the same calories but in harder to digest foods.
There was also an article on resistant starch and rice recently. Cooling rice after it is cooked lowers the calories by about 50%. And even if you later reheat it, the calories still stay lower.
These are just a few examples off the top of my head. This stuff matters.
Not really. You just adjust your count accordingly.
It's majoring in the minors - if you count your calories, adjusting for TEF if it's not already been accounted for, and maintain a deficit, which will depend on individual needs and circumstances, you will lose weight. Everything else is window dressing.
Not really? So you think it is not significant that chilling starchy foods before eating can reduce calories by 50% is insignificant? Maybe you have a fast metabolism and can eat enough that it truly doesn't matter...if so, you're lucky. I am not so lucky... 50% is very significant to me.
And how does mfp adjust the calorie count for how you cook your meat? Or your rice or pasta? Or the fact that 1/3 of the calories in almonds can't be used by the body? Oh, that's right...it doesn't. So it is extremely difficult, perhaps impossible for the average person to simply "adjust their count" accordingly.
Nope. Because it won't in reality. Most foods already have an allowance for TEF built in.
It's a nice bonus, but it doesn't change the fundamentals.
And it is not just TEF we are talking about. In the case of almonds, it is that the body just can't access the calories at all...NOT that the body burns more digesting them. They are never absorbed in the first place.
Actually they do.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-food-manufacturers/
Food labelling uses the Altwater system that splits the food down by composition and assigns calorie values to them based on nutrients. Those values include an allowance for thermic effect, although, like the whole system, it isn't precise.
As for your reduction in calories, so far you've shown that the number for almonds may be wrong, in which case it will simply be adjusted downwards, and referred to an experiment on rice which promised 50% reductions in calories, but which has so far only shown 10-12%, which may or may not be significant. So about a 20 Kcal saving on a standard portion.
So, yeah. Majoring in the minors and no real difference.
The Atwater system attempts to measure how much energy the food provides (that's why it subtracts fiber...it is not digested by the body, and thus provides no energy)...it completely ignores how much energy the body uses to process and digest it. THAT is the thermic effect. Atwater measures (or tries to) calories in. It ignores calories out...which is TEF.
And the rice depends on variety. And it is still significant...even with the worst variety. If somebody could eat 10-12% more calories without gaining based on choosing the right foods, they would probably call that significant.
I think you're overestimating how insignificant the impact that would have psychologically. If someone's in it to lose weight in the first place and is still counting calories, it's all well and fine, but for the average person?
Simply look to what diet soda consumption likely does to a great many people. They think they have extra calories to spend elsewhere, and eat to excess.
No, I don't think it should have any psychological impact at all...for people with healthy habits.
Not everyone who drinks diet soda eats more to make up the calories they "saved". Some do...some don't. There are tons of people here claiming they drink it every day and lose weight...so that is obviously where the psychology you speak of plays in. Those that eat more are obviously not forming a habit that is supportive of long term weight management. But that does not mean other people can't drink diet soda and use it to remove empty calories they would otherwise drink. I personally don't drink any soda..but I just prefer other things.
I eat almonds regularly...always have...I like them. However, now that I know the calories are overstated, I am not eating extra almonds to make up the difference. That would be counterproductive. I just look at the "savings" as a nice benefit.
The point is knowledge like this can be used to make more informed, better choices...even for people who don't count calories. If how you cook something impacts effective calories, you don't need to adjust anything or eat more or less...but you can consider that when deciding how to prepare it. Or you can choose one snack instead of another, at least on occasion...to help maintain a healthy weight. Some people will make that effort or change, others won't...the individual can decide if it is worth it for them.
The point is being healthy is the result of many individual habits. No one thing will make or break you., but making mindful informed choices goes a long way. If you can't be bothered to chill your pasta, you can still be healthy and maintain or lose weight. But it could be an easy change that could give an incremental benefit to others.
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EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »EvilShenanigansTX wrote: »Ummmm ....
"...a rare steak is harder to digest than a well-done one - so will be less calorific."
I can't.
It's true. Raw meat (rare steak is just a raw meat meat sandwich) is harder to digest and produces fewer net calories than cooked meat.
I get the concept, but I can't imagine that the difference would be that great. Not enough that people would notice any signifigant weight loss if they ate the same calories but in harder to digest foods.
It's not monumentally large. Over the course of a six month cycle, it might save you a week or two of dieting.
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Liftin4food wrote: »From the Daily Mail website this morning:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3011031/The-real-truth-calories-counting-making-FATTER.html
Daily mail is not a good source. They just aren't.0 -
The differences in TEF between different foods isn't that big anyway. Months back there was a thread about it with a study (I guess?) that found a sub 100 calorie difference in TEF between a potential diet consisting of 100% carbs vs. 100% protein at I dunno either 1500 or 2000 calories total intake I think. It's been a while and I suck at finding stuff on pubmed.0
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herrspoons wrote: »That said, since Atwater's figures are so averaged and generous, the effect of TEF doesn't seem to have a major impact, leading them to the conclusion that a calorie is a calorie.
TEF is already accounted for on the intake side, even if it's not intentional or explicit - the guidelines we've built for caloric intake requirements already bake in TEF, because they're based on positive health outcomes.
The only time it *might* be necessary for a weight-loser to adjust for TEF would be if they moved to an extreme set of macro ratios, stayed there for a very long time, and were running small deficits.
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This article is *kitten*, counting calories is important in overall weight loss but you have to count macros too if your goals are more body composition based. 1000 calories worth of cake does not equal 1000 calories worth of chicken breast no matter how badly people would like that to be so0
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