Doctor says 1200, trainer says 3800, what do you say??
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My question is: is the doctor taking in to account the exercise? The trainer is probably suggesting that you "eat back" at least a portion of the calories you burn while exercising. In my opinion (and I am not a dr or trainer), 1200 seems too low; 3800 seems to high. The MFP suggestion of 2600 (or whatever), seems more reasonable for a 6'4 male (I think I read that) who is exercising.
My husband is 6'3 and about 200lbs (he is not trying to lose/gain); he maintains (while working out) at around 2500 cals.0 -
Trainers are never supposed to go against doctors orders! I'm shocked. You can however have them in the same page with everything if you sign the right papers so they can speak together about your weight loss. Also, depending on circumstances and insurance, your doctor might be able to write s script for personal training.0
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Most people don't realize most doctors are not qualified to give weight loss advice because they are not required to take nutrition classes while attending medical school.
My doctor sent me to qualified nutritionist when I needed advice on weight loss. I was very happy with the guidance I received from my nutritionist.0 -
personally i would go by the scooby workshop calculators and set your goal from there. take into consideration that a vlcd is not long term sustainable and you could be not getting enough nutrients from food. i was on 1200 calories for 4 months and i lost 2 stone but it was not sustainable when especially since i only have 17-20lbs to go now so i have set the goal at a slower loss and slowly increased calories. i couldnt even get through a workout at 1200 calories any more. certainly take a look at http://scoobysworkshop.com/0
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Ask your doctor why he says 1200 calories?
That's crazy low for a man, and would be hard to stick to for anyone.
Maybe ask him to refer you to a registered Dietician.
As for the trainer - I wouldn't listen to any trainer for nutritional advice.
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Unless you have some urgent chronic health issue where you MUST lose as much weight as possible NOW then 1200 is really quite unnecessary. Of course losing weight will improve your health drastically, but a person your size will lose weight just fine eating more than that.
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tippettbrian78 wrote: »What is your dr's reason? If for example he/she has concerns about your health that need your weight to drop fast, then this is different than just giving you a random number. But this is something to discuss with the dr, not the trainer.
I'm just too fat! That plus my family history has about every bad thing know to man in it.
I think you should invest some time into learning about weight gain/loss and how it works. Seeing how your life is going to be devoted to it for quite some time it's clear you don't know anything about it just by the numbers you put out there. You can't lose 2lbs per week eating 1200 calories and 5lbs per week eating 3800. It makes no sense and with a little knowledge you would have known this. The more you learn about it the more you can control it yourself.0 -
I don't know if you're a man or a woman. But for either, 1200 is not nearly enough and 3800 sounds way too high. I do not count calories myself. But in general, you need to consider your height and the bodyfat you want to get to and your build (small, med or large frame) and your age. Then decide for yourself using some reliable online tools. Like fat2fit. In general, if you're female, somewhere between 1500 and 1700 and a male somewhat more. The amount of weight you lost seems excessive to me but it was probably water. It comes off quickly at first and then slows down as you take off fat. But trainers are salespeople. They are really not qualified to advise you on nutrition. At the same time, most doctors are clueless about nutrition. You are on your own in this area.0
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I'd ask for a referral to a specialist. If your doctor is so concerned that he thinks you should be eating so little, I would want a complete plan not just a seemingly random number.0
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teagirlmedium wrote: »teagirlmedium wrote: »Safe wise 2 pounds, but you said your trainer said to average 5 pounds. If the person is actually your trainer then you should do what they say. If you are going to pay a trainer you should follow their program. That or tell your trainer what your doctor said and tell them to adjust their plans for you to fit the weight loss goal your doctor said to aim for.
Excuse me?
So someone should follow the advice of a person who has potentially no qualifications as opposed to a qualified medical professional who has her medical records to hand
My trainer would never give me dietary advice ...he just pointed me to MFP
What qualifications does your trainer have in nutrition by the way OP?
Yes, the OP said the person was their trainer. To me that means the OP has chosen to pay this person per hour for the trainer to help them lose weight. Which means the OP should stick to what the trainer says, because they have chosen to pay a bunch of money for the trainer to give them advice and help them work out every time they see the trainer. If the OP does not listen to the trainer then the OP is just wasting money on someone they are not really going to listen to. If you finished reading my post you would have seen that I also said the OP could just tell the trainer to adjust their plan to fit what the doctor said the OP's weight loss goal should be.
So because he's giving someone money he should take their advice on areas they are not qualified to advise on? ...I'm sorry but I find that a dangerous viewpoint...there is a reason the weight loss, health and fitness industry is a multi-million pound industry with snake oil salesmen, fads and gimmicks that rarely work long term
A trainer is supposed to be qualified for fitness advice, but again they vary and finding the right one with the right knowledge can be tricky
I think the OP should either educate himself or consult a professional dietician0 -
The reading I've done says 1 percent of body weight per week. At a higher weight you can lose weight faster than at a lower weight. I agree with amused Monkey that the benefits of losing weight slightly faster when you are heavier outweigh the drawbacks. The important thing is to have adequate calories (1200 or more) and nutrition and to eat in a manner that you can sustain.0
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GoPerfectHealth wrote: »The reading I've done says 1 percent of body weight per week. At a higher weight you can lose weight faster than at a lower weight. I agree with amused Monkey that the benefits of losing weight slightly faster when you are heavier outweigh the drawbacks. The important thing is to have adequate calories (1200 or more) and nutrition and to eat in a manner that you can sustain.
To add to this, for most males 1800 would be minimum.
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Regarding the ability of nutritionists and doctors to give appropriate advice: Doctors don't have that much training on nutrition so what they know is based on their own curiosity, research and clinical experience. Nutritionists and registered dietitians have a lot of training, but also have a set of biases and beliefs. Some will say "no" to low-carb, and "no" to a 1200 calorie diet. They often have good advice about how particular diets will affect your health markers, but sometimes they are just following standard recommendations. There is a great deal left to learn about nutrition.
In the end, each person has to look at the information and decide for themselves the appropriate course of action.
OP, you might spend the next few months experimenting with calorie targets to see what your results are and to see how you feel. Sometimes even a small calorie difference can make a diet sustainable. For me, there is a big difference between 1200 calories and 1350.
And there is a big difference between 6 oz of salmon and 2 slices of pizza. Salmon will sustain me, but pizza not so much.
Good luck!
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teagirlmedium wrote: »teagirlmedium wrote: »Safe wise 2 pounds, but you said your trainer said to average 5 pounds. If the person is actually your trainer then you should do what they say. If you are going to pay a trainer you should follow their program. That or tell your trainer what your doctor said and tell them to adjust their plans for you to fit the weight loss goal your doctor said to aim for.
Excuse me?
So someone should follow the advice of a person who has potentially no qualifications as opposed to a qualified medical professional who has her medical records to hand
My trainer would never give me dietary advice ...he just pointed me to MFP
What qualifications does your trainer have in nutrition by the way OP?
Yes, the OP said the person was their trainer. To me that means the OP has chosen to pay this person per hour for the trainer to help them lose weight. Which means the OP should stick to what the trainer says, because they have chosen to pay a bunch of money for the trainer to give them advice and help them work out every time they see the trainer. If the OP does not listen to the trainer then the OP is just wasting money on someone they are not really going to listen to. If you finished reading my post you would have seen that I also said the OP could just tell the trainer to adjust their plan to fit what the doctor said the OP's weight loss goal should be.
So because he's giving someone money he should take their advice on areas they are not qualified to advise on? ...I'm sorry but I find that a dangerous viewpoint...there is a reason the weight loss, health and fitness industry is a multi-million pound industry with snake oil salesmen, fads and gimmicks that rarely work long term
A trainer is supposed to be qualified for fitness advice, but again they vary and finding the right one with the right knowledge can be tricky
I think the OP should either educate himself or consult a professional dietician
^^^THIS.0 -
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I don't think we have enough information here to advise this person. He's morbidly obese, and it's not unheard of for a doctor to put a person in that category on a VLCD for a period of time to get them down to a lower weight quickly.
All I'm going to say on the matter is ignore the trainer. I'm going to hope that the OP is seeing a specialist who advised him regarding the 1200 calories.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »I don't think we have enough information here to advise this person. He's morbidly obese, and it's not unheard of for a doctor to put a person in that category on a VLCD for a period of time to get them down to a lower weight quickly.
All I'm going to say on the matter is ignore the trainer. I'm going to hope that the OP is seeing a specialist who advised him regarding the 1200 calories.
True, and if I read correctly the Dr is a Ph.D., not an MD.tippettbrian78 wrote: »0 -
teagirlmedium wrote: »teagirlmedium wrote: »Safe wise 2 pounds, but you said your trainer said to average 5 pounds. If the person is actually your trainer then you should do what they say. If you are going to pay a trainer you should follow their program. That or tell your trainer what your doctor said and tell them to adjust their plans for you to fit the weight loss goal your doctor said to aim for.
Excuse me?
So someone should follow the advice of a person who has potentially no qualifications as opposed to a qualified medical professional who has her medical records to hand
My trainer would never give me dietary advice ...he just pointed me to MFP
What qualifications does your trainer have in nutrition by the way OP?
Yes, the OP said the person was their trainer. To me that means the OP has chosen to pay this person per hour for the trainer to help them lose weight. Which means the OP should stick to what the trainer says, because they have chosen to pay a bunch of money for the trainer to give them advice and help them work out every time they see the trainer. If the OP does not listen to the trainer then the OP is just wasting money on someone they are not really going to listen to. If you finished reading my post you would have seen that I also said the OP could just tell the trainer to adjust their plan to fit what the doctor said the OP's weight loss goal should be.
Trainers might be qualified to design an exercise program ... even that is a stretch for many of them now. They are not qualified to design specialized diet plans. That is why registered dietitians exist. Everything you've said in this thread is not just wrong, it is inherently dangerous.
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AmazonMayan wrote: »tippettbrian78 wrote: »Thanks for the advice everyone. I scheduled an appointment with the company nutritionist on Monday. I'm 6'4" and MFP recommends 2680 a day. Maybe MFP is smarter than either of them!
I don't see how you can make it on 1200 being that tall and overweight. I'm 6' female and my suggested calories is close to 2000 and I'm losing just fine. I would crash hard, pass out, have no energy, etc. on 1200 daily.
It's often easier for super-obese to handle huge deficits, because they can metabolize fat stores for energy at a much higher rate than someone significantly leaner.
1200 for someone that size is unlikely to be problem and almost certainly the advantages of losing quickly will be greater than any small disadvantages from.
Whoever told you to eat 3800 doesn't understand how to calculate TDEE, so I wouldn't pay much attention to them.0 -
Based on what you said, I can't tell who said what. I would lean more toward listening to the doctor, because trainers are more focused on nutrition and less on health. Being physically fit is great, but it does you little good if you are dead.0
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gotobedhungry wrote: »teagirlmedium wrote: »Safe wise 2 pounds, but you said your trainer said to average 5 pounds. If the person is actually your trainer then you should do what they say. If you are going to pay a trainer you should follow their program. That or tell your trainer what your doctor said and tell them to adjust their plans for you to fit the weight loss goal your doctor said to aim for.
My trainer years and years ago ...
She didn't know that i was recovering from anorexia. And her advice was *kitten*.
How is she supposed to know you're recovering from an ED unless you tell her?
Of course the advice is crap - you withheld key information from her.
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tippettbrian78 wrote: »What's a safe weight loss goal to set? Trainer says I should average 5lbs a week, doc says 2. Which is actually "safe"?
5 a week is close to the max healthy levels, 4 is fine as long as you're getting your vitamins and minerals as well as protein. Being the weight that you are means that you can safely lose weight faster than someone who weighs less (not trying to be a dick just letting you know) so try for 4 pounds a week I'd say and if you can't sustain that then stay at at least 2 or above. 1300 calories isn't enough though, don't go below 1500 ever and I would suggest 2000 for you as that is more sustainable and you will feel better throughout the day.
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Every doctor seems to recommend 1200 these days. Most doctors do not have the additional training after med school/practicum when it comes to nutrition. Ask to be referred to a Dietician and Nutritionist.0
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Here's a newbie help post with links to helpful info such as sexypants, (go read that now, then come back here)tippettbrian wrote:I've lost 15 pounds in two weeks eating around 1300 calories a day and doing cardio. I started off at 350 pounds and want to get to at least 230. What advice can some of you pros give a noob?
((seriously, now))
accurate food measuring & logging, goal setting (weight, calories, macros), motivation & encouragement, exercise basics, suggestions on setting macros, etc.
36 y.o. male
6'4"
Going by this BMI chart, a healthy weight range for your height is 155-200.
This calculator from the Baylor College of Medicine will tell you not only your BMI, but how many servings of the various food groups to eat to maintain that weight.
If you enter your healthy goal weight, this will help you plan your food intake.
https://www.bcm.edu/cnrc-apps/healthyeatingcalculator/eatingCal.html
That says that the top end of a healthy weight range is 193.5 (giving you a BMI of 24.9), and if you were inactive you'd need 1926 calories to maintain that weight. Being active about 1 hour a day ups that to 2978.
So if you eat at your inactive calorie goal, ignore exercise calories (to compensate for mismeasuring food), you should get to that weight.
Alternatively, see what it takes to support your current weight and subtract 1000 cal/day to lose 2 lb/week.
The calculator says that at 320 lb and inactive, you'd need 3461 cal/day. (It won't let me put in a weight above 320.)
So try for 2400 and see how it goes. That's well above the minimum for men of average height (1500 cal/day).
If you find that tolerable, you could go a little lower and lose a little faster while you're so far above a healthy weight. As you hit a plateau, cut 50-100 cal and wait a couple weeks to see the weight loss restart.
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You don't think he's paying the doctor???teagirl wrote:the OP has chosen to pay this person per hour for the trainer to help them lose weight. Which means the OP should stick to what the trainer says, because they have chosen to pay a bunch of money for the trainer to give them advice and help them work out every time they see the trainer. If the OP does not listen to the trainer then the OP is just wasting money on someone they are not really going to listen to
I think he should tell the trainer to stick to what he's qualified for. (If he's qualified... find out his credentials, education, see what his certifying organization says he's allowed to do. I'm going to bet he's not allowed to talk nutrition, since he probably isn't an RD.)
Also, OP, you don't need to have someone with you every time to work out.
Learn what you need to do, have the trainer write up an exercise program, including how you can make it harder as you get more fit. That might take 2-3 hours, but it's a good investment. Maybe you'd want a tuneup every few months, just to make sure you're on track.
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Did you see where he said he's 350 lb & a has very bad family medical history??deksgrl wrote:Unless you have some urgent chronic health issue where you MUST lose as much weight as possible NOW then 1200 is really quite unnecessary
ETA: and aren't "urgent" and "chronic" sort of mutually exclusive?
.
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therooster5 wrote: »...so try for 4 pounds a week....and I would suggest 2000 for you...
Those are inconsistent. To get a 4 pound weekly deficit on a 2000 cal/day intake is going to require the dude to run a 10k every day to generate a big enough deficit.
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teagirlmedium wrote: »teagirlmedium wrote: »Safe wise 2 pounds, but you said your trainer said to average 5 pounds. If the person is actually your trainer then you should do what they say. If you are going to pay a trainer you should follow their program. That or tell your trainer what your doctor said and tell them to adjust their plans for you to fit the weight loss goal your doctor said to aim for.
Excuse me?
So someone should follow the advice of a person who has potentially no qualifications as opposed to a qualified medical professional who has her medical records to hand
My trainer would never give me dietary advice ...he just pointed me to MFP
What qualifications does your trainer have in nutrition by the way OP?
Yes, the OP said the person was their trainer. To me that means the OP has chosen to pay this person per hour for the trainer to help them lose weight. Which means the OP should stick to what the trainer says, because they have chosen to pay a bunch of money for the trainer to give them advice and help them work out every time they see the trainer. If the OP does not listen to the trainer then the OP is just wasting money on someone they are not really going to listen to. If you finished reading my post you would have seen that I also said the OP could just tell the trainer to adjust their plan to fit what the doctor said the OP's weight loss goal should be.
Dumb. Just because you "paid money" you would blindly follow advice that on the surface appears unreasonable? ? Because you paid for it? Does that sound smart at all?
And don't you also pay the doc? Mine doesn't see me for free.0 -
allenpriest wrote: »teagirlmedium wrote: »teagirlmedium wrote: »Safe wise 2 pounds, but you said your trainer said to average 5 pounds. If the person is actually your trainer then you should do what they say. If you are going to pay a trainer you should follow their program. That or tell your trainer what your doctor said and tell them to adjust their plans for you to fit the weight loss goal your doctor said to aim for.
Excuse me?
So someone should follow the advice of a person who has potentially no qualifications as opposed to a qualified medical professional who has her medical records to hand
My trainer would never give me dietary advice ...he just pointed me to MFP
What qualifications does your trainer have in nutrition by the way OP?
Yes, the OP said the person was their trainer. To me that means the OP has chosen to pay this person per hour for the trainer to help them lose weight. Which means the OP should stick to what the trainer says, because they have chosen to pay a bunch of money for the trainer to give them advice and help them work out every time they see the trainer. If the OP does not listen to the trainer then the OP is just wasting money on someone they are not really going to listen to. If you finished reading my post you would have seen that I also said the OP could just tell the trainer to adjust their plan to fit what the doctor said the OP's weight loss goal should be.
Dumb. Just because you "paid money" you would blindly follow advice that on the surface appears unreasonable? ? Because you paid for it? Does that sound smart at all?
And don't you also pay the doc? Mine doesn't see me for free.
I would not have gotten a trainer. But the OP did. If I did choose to pay for a trainer I would follow the program they have given me. Because I am not going to pay someone to help me reach a goal and then ignore some of the things they tell me to do. That would be setting myself up to fail and a waste of money. I would have done what I suggested the OP do at the end of my paragraph above with is tell the trainer to set a program up that would follow the weight loss goal the doctor said I should follow. If I thought the advice the trainer had given me sounded unreasonable I would not choose that person as a trainer.
Also, if you had paid attention to what the OP has been posting, you would have seen that the OP has already said they have made an appointment with their companies nutrition on Monday.0 -
Just want to comment on the trainers...
Go into any gym and the trainers are usually in phenominal shape. I don't blame people for thinking they know what they're talking about...0
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