Why do people think you will lose muscle if you lose more than 2lbs a week?
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Let me guess. You are male, probably under 40, and you probably have a good 40lbs of fat stored for an emergency. Which means that a relatively safe 1.5% of your body weight loss per week is, drumroll, more than 2lbs a week, right?
Google is your friend, it is YOUR body, and you can do whatever YOU want with it.
Go get your body measured reliably with a dxa scan, body pod, or at worse calipers wielded by an experienced measuring person, and report back to us concretely how a few months of low calorie or very low calorie dieting work out for you!
But I do notice that for a person who doesn't believe in the loss of muscle while dieting, you are taking every muscle sparing precaution (except for the level of calorie cut) since you did say that you eat your protein and you lift too....
So I eat my protein too and I do NOT lift, even though i know i should, and I was extremely happy to find out that my 93day 21.4lb loss consisted of 20.2lbs fat and 1.2lbs lean body mass. Oh, and am still more than 30% blubber. YMMV. I recall seeing the results of a very low calorie study when searching for something else on google and they had apparently achieved a 2:1 fat to muscle loss... which to me doesn't sound that good!
Where was I? Oh, and I hear that you can both feel stronger and perform better with less muscle mass! WTF? Well training the muscles you have and being able to get all your muscle fibers to do something at the same time also counts for something! (Alert: this is pure hearsay: my own muscles are snoozing at this time)
why is that so hard to believe? How do companies do 25% more work with the exact same staff? They train the staff to be more productive or they implement policies to make them more productive.
Same thing with muscles. You can train your muscles to become stronger without adding new mass. I believe the term is neuromuscular adaptation …
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therooster5 wrote: »I think people say that as an excuse as to why they're not trying to lose more. This is nothing against someone who only wants to lose 1-2 pounds a week. But if you want to lose more weight and fat than that, you can. I am currently losing 3-3.5 pounds of fat a week on an accelerated diet because I hate losing weight so much I just want to get it over with. I exercise my muscles and eat my protein goal and I feel stronger than I did before even though supposedly I'm losing a ton of muscle along with my fat. If anyone has any concrete evidence that I'm wrong I'll be glad to hear it.
How much do you have to lose?
I lowered my loss rate because I discovered that I'd lost more muscle than I wanted (though lots of fat too) when continuing to lose at 1.5-2 lbs/week when I was in the healthy weight zone for my height (or close to it). At the weight I am now I'm much more interested in my fat percentage and overall LBM than losing more weight (although I'd like to lose 5 more lbs or so), so I'm taking it slow. My evidence is my DEXA scans. (Feeling stronger has nothing to do with it--I felt stronger and was demonstrably more fit despite the lost muscle.)
This happened while I was following a progressive lifting program and eating really nutritious food, including plenty of protein. (I was also doing a lot of cardio.)
If you lose at a slower rate there's not that much difference between losing and being in maintenance, IMO. However, do what works for you--I lost at 2-3 lbs/week at my heaviest and wouldn't have wanted to go slower then.0 -
Amanda4change wrote: »Reading this study, eating a high protein diet may offer some protection against muscle loss, however there is still loss.
http://m.advances.nutrition.org/content/3/2/119.full
Thank you for an actual source to back up your opinion!
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Let me guess. You are male, probably under 40, and you probably have a good 40lbs of fat stored for an emergency. Which means that a relatively safe 1.5% of your body weight loss per week is, drumroll, more than 2lbs a week, right?
Google is your friend, it is YOUR body, and you can do whatever YOU want with it.
Go get your body measured reliably with a dxa scan, body pod, or at worse calipers wielded by an experienced measuring person, and report back to us concretely how a few months of low calorie or very low calorie dieting work out for you!
But I do notice that for a person who doesn't believe in the loss of muscle while dieting, you are taking every muscle sparing precaution (except for the level of calorie cut) since you did say that you eat your protein and you lift too....
So I eat my protein too and I do NOT lift, even though i know i should, and I was extremely happy to find out that my 93day 21.4lb loss consisted of 20.2lbs fat and 1.2lbs lean body mass. Oh, and am still more than 30% blubber. YMMV. I recall seeing the results of a very low calorie study when searching for something else on google and they had apparently achieved a 2:1 fat to muscle loss... which to me doesn't sound that good!
Where was I? Oh, and I hear that you can both feel stronger and perform better with less muscle mass! WTF? Well training the muscles you have and being able to get all your muscle fibers to do something at the same time also counts for something! (Alert: this is pure hearsay: my own muscles are snoozing at this time)
I'm not sure I understand all of what you're saying but thank you. I probably have about 40 stored up as I am 190 and am about 20-22% fat at the moment. And I don't think muscle loss doesn't happen, I just think its preventable. But good job on only losing 1.2 of muscle or whatever!
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therooster5 wrote: »Amanda4change wrote: »Reading this study, eating a high protein diet may offer some protection against muscle loss, however there is still loss.
http://m.advances.nutrition.org/content/3/2/119.full
Thank you for an actual source to back up your opinion!
I actually posted two studies. Both say the same thing high protein diets (double the daily recommendation can help limit muscles loss, though there is STILL loss). Also it should be noted that BOTH studies were done using calorie deficits equal to 2 pound per week loss, not a higher loss. Again both studies say there is a limit to the protection of loss of lbm by higher protein consumption.
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Look guys here's the truth. Everyone's situation is different. I am NOT SAYING THAT YOUR METABOLISM IS DIFFERENT. But different amounts of fat and muscle in the body change the situation dramatically. For example someone with a decent amount of fat. Say .. 20 - 25%, Or even higher. Has a larger fat metabolism and can therefore account for more calories from fat oxidation in a day. At the same time someone with more muscle has to be more careful as his body is more willing to break that muscle down to cover a large deficit than someone with a normal or already sub par relative muscle mass. Someone who is obese with little muscle mass can probably get away with eating very very little and not lose any muscle. But a body builder at 15% body fat has to be very very careful with how fast they cut.0
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Forbes has pointed out that lean body mass is lost in concert with body fat during weight loss
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10865771
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2376744/0 -
I think you are making a huge generalization without being here long enough to do so.
Sooo .. being a long term member of Myfitnesspal somehow makes you an authority in the matter? And being new means your talking trash?
I know there are people who make new accounts and come on just to troll and start arguments or to be contrary to popularly held opinions on this board but that statemtn was just very very silly.
You in fact just made a huge generalization about people who make huge generalization.
We may have reached generalizationception.
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So are you saying that it's NOT a huge and invalid generalization to claim that people only say it's better not to lose at too aggressive a rate because they need an excuse for losing more slowly?
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A lot depends on how much weight there is to lose. 3 pounds a week is much different thing for a male at 40% body fat than for a male at 15% body fat.
I absolutely agree. when I was 90 kg I could easily loose 1 or 1.5 kg every week without any side effects but after losing 20-25 kg I cant do that any more.0 -
therooster5 wrote: »I think people say that as an excuse as to why they're not trying to lose more. This is nothing against someone who only wants to lose 1-2 pounds a week. But if you want to lose more weight and fat than that, you can. I am currently losing 3-3.5 pounds of fat a week on an accelerated diet because I hate losing weight so much I just want to get it over with. I exercise my muscles and eat my protein goal and I feel stronger than I did before even though supposedly I'm losing a ton of muscle along with my fat. If anyone has any concrete evidence that I'm wrong I'll be glad to hear it.
You don't know what you're losing. It's probably water and all sorts.
If you're obese you may be able to do this safely.
The closer you get to goal the more danger there is of losing valuable tissue, muscle, nails, calcium, organs, skin.
Careful. Don't encourage unhealthy weight loss.
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20 pounds to lose and losing 3 a week? How aggressive is your deficit?
Large losses can be sustained by the morbidly obese. Not by people with only 20 pounds to lose.
I again have to question how little you're eating to lose weight so quickly.0 -
Ive been losing an average 2lbs a week for the past 6.5months. I haven't lost any muscle.. in fact I may have actually gained some (not sure, if I didn't wasnt much). But I also started off at about 345. Maybe losing 2lbs/week starting at 220 might not work the same.
Ill probably scale down my weiight loss to 1lb per week as I approach 240ish
The important thing to do IMO is make sure to eat enough protein and to do heavy weightlifting 3x a week to maintain your LBM as you lose weight, at least that is what has worked so far for me.0 -
Because that's not unhealthy for your body and doesn't very potentially lead to risking a lack of nutrient intake.
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therooster5 wrote: »isulo_kura wrote: »You will always lose some muscle when losing weight that's just what happens . It's minimising that loss that you want to do. Those in the morbidly and super morbidly obese losing some muscle is not a big issue initially. You only have 20 pounds in weight to lose so for a start what's the rush?
What makes you think you will lose muscle automatically no matter what? If you get enough protein and exercise your muscles regularly you won't.
because physics and that's just how it happens. oy.0 -
Where was I? Oh, and I hear that you can both feel stronger and perform better with less muscle mass! WTF? Well training the muscles you have and being able to get all your muscle fibers to do something at the same time also counts for something! (Alert: this is pure hearsay: my own muscles are snoozing at this time)
why is that so hard to believe?.... Same thing with muscles. You can train your muscles to become stronger without adding new mass. I believe the term is neuromuscular adaptation …
Err.... isn't that what I said?!
Just trying to gently explain to the OP how he can be both stronger and losing muscle mass at the same time!
However, many people, experience cognitive dissonance when told that, and since I don't have first hand concrete proof as the OP demanded... I felt compelled to point out that it is just hearsay on my part : - )
Glad to find out I was right!
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Then how come I havent according to both my scale which tells me my body fat percentage, as well as skin fold test? (I know neither are 100% accurate, but they both have been giving me fairly consistent readings with each other)therooster5 wrote: »isulo_kura wrote: »You will always lose some muscle when losing weight that's just what happens . It's minimising that loss that you want to do. Those in the morbidly and super morbidly obese losing some muscle is not a big issue initially. You only have 20 pounds in weight to lose so for a start what's the rush?
What makes you think you will lose muscle automatically no matter what? If you get enough protein and exercise your muscles regularly you won't.
because physics and that's just how it happens. oy.
330 lbs both tests indicated 45% BF
300lb scale indicated 40% calipers 39%
and did a test today at 282lb scale said 35% and callipers said 33%.
So it appears I been maintaining LBM or possibly even slightly increasing it all while losing an average 2lbs/week for the past 6.5 months
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