MFP vs TDEE
debrakgoogins
Posts: 2,033 Member
I have been consistently losing about a pound a week since Christmas. Following a surgery, I gained weight and went above my original starting point. I started back up with MFP but didn't reset my starting weight - wish I had known that was an option but hindsight you know. In early March, I started working with a personal trainer four days a week. I am noticing a considerable change in my body composition, mobility and strength. My BMI (according to one of the handheld devices) has reduced by 4% although I understand that can be very inaccurate. I have lost 1.5 centimeters in my stomach and hips since March 1. The scale is still moving in the right direction but slightly slower than it was. My problem is that I am hungry, HANGRY. Before, I was able to manage my hunger by eating high protein, moderate fat snacks in the AM and afternoon but not now that I am working out harder and more often my stomach is constantly grumbling.
I did some research here and decided to calculate my Scooby TDEE. FYI - I am 5'9, currently 192 pounds. I work out 4 days a week for 60 minutes doing lifting and metabolic training. I work a desk job so my goals are based on the "sedentary" setting with 50% carb, 30% fat and 20% protein. I occasionally do cardio on my off days but it isn't consistent so I didn't take that into consideration. According to the Scooby calculation, I should be eating about 200 calories more per day than I currently eat on my days that include calories earned for my workouts. I am eating 500 calories less than the Scooby number on the days that I am not working out.
For those who have more experience than I do, should I change my calorie goals (or maybe just my protein percentage) or just suck it up and be hungry? I am not disappointed with my progress, just my constant hunger.
I did some research here and decided to calculate my Scooby TDEE. FYI - I am 5'9, currently 192 pounds. I work out 4 days a week for 60 minutes doing lifting and metabolic training. I work a desk job so my goals are based on the "sedentary" setting with 50% carb, 30% fat and 20% protein. I occasionally do cardio on my off days but it isn't consistent so I didn't take that into consideration. According to the Scooby calculation, I should be eating about 200 calories more per day than I currently eat on my days that include calories earned for my workouts. I am eating 500 calories less than the Scooby number on the days that I am not working out.
For those who have more experience than I do, should I change my calorie goals (or maybe just my protein percentage) or just suck it up and be hungry? I am not disappointed with my progress, just my constant hunger.
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If you add those calories, you may find that you lose faster. Sometimes our bodies hold on to weight if it feels it's not getting enough food for our activity level.0
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I say, if you are working out hard, and you are hungry, that is your body's way of saying you need MORE CALORIES...
Go ahead and eat something... test it out... I would bet if you AREN'T eating at least SOME of your exercise calories back, you will surprisingly see a weight drop when you do!!! 0 -
When you set your TDEE, this includes exercise, so you should set it to at least lightly active, perhaps moderately active. If you are doing heavy lifting, then you need to fuel those workouts, and this is why you are hungry.
MFP does not include exercise so you set your activity level based on normal activities NOT including purposeful exercise. (and this is why you eat more calories when you do exercise because it is not included in that calculation).
Editing to add: A properly set TDEE - % calorie goal should be about in the same ballpark as a properly set MFP + exercise calories goal.0 -
You could experiment and see if you can reduce the hunger by increasing protein and/or increasing fiber. If that doesn't work for you, and you are tired of being hungry, then yeah eat a little more. Regardless of what MFP says, or what Scooby says about how much you "should" be eating, what you have been eating has produced your results, so eating a little more will mean that you slow your loss a little. For example, if you eat 200 calories more per day, your weight loss with go from a pound a week, to a pound every 11-12 days.0
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debrakgoogins wrote: »I work out 4 days a week for 60 minutes doing lifting and metabolic training.
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debrakgoogins wrote: »
I work out 4 days a week for 60 minutes doing lifting and metabolic training.
Okay, sorry, I was misreading the post. As said before, TDEE should be comparable to your MFP+exercise calories goal. The only difference is you'll eat that amount every day, even when you aren't working out. Do whatever fits for you.0 -
I would cut your carbs by 5-10% and add it to protein (you could also add some of it to fat if you prefer).
When I increased my protein several months ago, I noticed immediately...like the same day...that I was less hungry. For me, fat and protein both have the effect of keeping me full for many hours. I later increased fat because i thought I might not be eating enough, and now I am just about never hungry.
If you try that for a week or so, and you're still hungry, take your calories up a little. You are losing currently, so you may have room to do that.0 -
Again, if you set your TDEE to SEDENTARY, when you do indeed exercise, then it is not calculated properly.
You need to include your exercise in TDEE, so choose a higher activity level.0 -
Again, if you set your TDEE to SEDENTARY, when you do indeed exercise, then it is not calculated properly.
You need to include your exercise in TDEE, so choose a higher activity level.
I understand that. My original post may have been confusing. When I stated I have my activity level as sedentary, I meant that is what I currently have in MFP - as a reference to show the difference between MFP and TDEE.
I believe I correctly identified my exercise in the TDEE (indicating 3-5 days of moderate exercise - I didn't choose the next highest level because that was 5-6 days of strenuous which I don't always accomplish) and the MFP (sedentary because I have a desk job).
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What do you have your weight loss goal set for in MFP, and what calorie deficit did you choose in Scooby?
But yes, both methods should come out the same if the goals are the same and you are logging exercise properly. TDEE just averages the included exercise out over the week. The problem is, many people compare MFP set to 2 lb loss a week to TDEE with a 500-600 calorie deficit, which is comparing apples to oranges.0 -
What do you have your weight loss goal set for in MFP, and what calorie deficit did you choose in Scooby?
But yes, both methods should come out the same if the goals are the same and you are logging exercise properly. TDEE just averages the included exercise out over the week. The problem is, many people compare MFP set to 2 lb loss a week to TDEE with a 500-600 calorie deficit, which is comparing apples to oranges.
I have MFP set at 1 pound per week. I set my TDEE goal at lose fat - 20% calorie reduction.
MFP has me eating 1460 per day. My trainer assures me I safely burn about 260 calories during one of our sessions. That would make my goal on a work out day 1720. TDEE has my calorie goal as 1968. That seems like a considerable difference. Now, if I change my MFP to lightly active, my daily calories jump to 1700 which would be 1960 on exercise days.
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If your exercise routine is consistent, why not try the TDEE method?
Just remember that its calculating TDEE based on population averages, so it might not be exact for you (combined with how accurate you are with your intake logging). So give it a try for a few weeks. Remember that when you up your calories, you might see some upward fluctuation on the scale for a few days. This is why I say give it a couple of weeks. If after a few weeks you aren't losing at the rate you want, adjust the calories up or down based on your own data.0 -
When you set your TDEE, this includes exercise, so you should set it to at least lightly active, perhaps moderately active. If you are doing heavy lifting, then you need to fuel those workouts, and this is why you are hungry.
MFP does not include exercise so you set your activity level based on normal activities NOT including purposeful exercise. (and this is why you eat more calories when you do exercise because it is not included in that calculation).
Editing to add: A properly set TDEE - % calorie goal should be about in the same ballpark as a properly set MFP + exercise calories goal.
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Everything is an average. No method is perfect for everyone. If you are hungry, try upping your calories and see how it goes. Keep in mind, not many people are truly sedentary. We garden, do housework, go shopping, run after kids, walk dogs, etc.
I used 3 different TDEE calculators, and they all gave me different numbers, but up to 300 calories. The best way to find your true TDEE is to look at your intake and loss. If you have been meticulous in logging, add up 4 weeks or so of intake. Add 3500 calories for every lb you lost in that time. Divide by 28 days (or how every many days you use). That is your personal TDEE. Subtract 20% from that number and make it your goal.0 -
Forget the calculators - they're all guesses.
If you're losing too fast, then your deficit is to big. If you're losing to slow, then your deficit is too small. If you're losing as expected, then your deficit is just right.
One caveat - if you are running anything but a small deficit while being very active (eg equivalent of running 10k 4 times a week (thats just an example)) then it is highly likely a big portion of the weight loss is lean body mass. Big deficits and high activity levels wreek havoc on the human body.
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debrakgoogins wrote: »What do you have your weight loss goal set for in MFP, and what calorie deficit did you choose in Scooby?
But yes, both methods should come out the same if the goals are the same and you are logging exercise properly. TDEE just averages the included exercise out over the week. The problem is, many people compare MFP set to 2 lb loss a week to TDEE with a 500-600 calorie deficit, which is comparing apples to oranges.
I have MFP set at 1 pound per week. I set my TDEE goal at lose fat - 20% calorie reduction.
MFP has me eating 1460 per day. My trainer assures me I safely burn about 260 calories during one of our sessions. That would make my goal on a work out day 1720. TDEE has my calorie goal as 1968. That seems like a considerable difference. Now, if I change my MFP to lightly active, my daily calories jump to 1700 which would be 1960 on exercise days.
TDEE isn't really defined by the calculator, but what you burn (living and through exercise) over the week. So if you think you burn a particular amount more than the calculator is accounting for you'd include it. The only differences (as others have said) would be due to the difference in your goal--for many 20% of TDEE is a bit less than 1 lb/week, whereas the MFP goal is for more. MFP's calculator may also give a different number than some other calculator (it can't include BF%) and may be different than observed TDEE.
MFP apparently has calculated that your maintenance if sedentary is 1960, and if lightly active (but no other exercise) is 2300. This means it thinks your BMR is about 1633. (I thought lightly active was a multiplier of 1.5, which would give 2450, but not sure about that.)
TDEE has your maintenance (with activity) at about 2450, which gives you 1960 with a 20% cut (-490 or just under a lb). So whatever you told it about your exercise/activity caused it to estimate about 490 calories on average per day beyond just being sedentary (if all else is equal). This is consistent with the difference I get from Scooby between sedentary and assuming 3-5 hours/week of strenuous exercise.
So the question seems to be if 490 calories every day is a good estimate of what you actually do on average (with the understanding that it's more some days and less others). If so, that's what you should be logging in MFP too, so it should even out. If not, then you might want to adjust the TDEE number if you go that way.
It sounds as if you are questioning whether your actual workout burns are as high as Scooby is estimating. The Scooby activity entries are pretty imprecise (arguably this is appropriate, since you can't really know it and need to adjust anyway). Also, they probably add in some daily activity for people who say they are more active beyond the workouts, I don't know how their calculation for activity works. If you are concerned that the amount you burn in walking around plus exercise isn't so high, don't use the Scooby number.
I'd say try it and adjust if your results aren't good, though.0 -
Forget the calculators - they're all guesses.
If you're losing too fast, then your deficit is to big. If you're losing to slow, then your deficit is too small. If you're losing as expected, then your deficit is just right.
Maybe I was unclear. I'm not disappointed with my rate of loss. I am hungrier now that I am consistently working with a trainer a few times a week.
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@lemurcat12 Thank you. Actually, thank you to everyone. My concern is that I am happy with my rate of loss...will changing my calories to that extreme drastically change my rate of loss? I don't want to be hungry but I also don't want to ruin my momentum.0
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If you eat a bit more, you'll still lose, and you'll have more energy to fuel your workouts and it will help your muscles recover. Also it will feel easier, you won't feel as deprived. Also you won't have to stress about estimating your workout burns (as long as you work your butt off every time). I vote for TDEE pretty much always, it's just easier in so many ways.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »debrakgoogins wrote: »What do you have your weight loss goal set for in MFP, and what calorie deficit did you choose in Scooby?
But yes, both methods should come out the same if the goals are the same and you are logging exercise properly. TDEE just averages the included exercise out over the week. The problem is, many people compare MFP set to 2 lb loss a week to TDEE with a 500-600 calorie deficit, which is comparing apples to oranges.
I have MFP set at 1 pound per week. I set my TDEE goal at lose fat - 20% calorie reduction.
MFP has me eating 1460 per day. My trainer assures me I safely burn about 260 calories during one of our sessions. That would make my goal on a work out day 1720. TDEE has my calorie goal as 1968. That seems like a considerable difference. Now, if I change my MFP to lightly active, my daily calories jump to 1700 which would be 1960 on exercise days.
TDEE isn't really defined by the calculator, but what you burn (living and through exercise) over the week. So if you think you burn a particular amount more than the calculator is accounting for you'd include it. The only differences (as others have said) would be due to the difference in your goal--for many 20% of TDEE is a bit less than 1 lb/week, whereas the MFP goal is for more. MFP's calculator may also give a different number than some other calculator (it can't include BF%) and may be different than observed TDEE.
MFP apparently has calculated that your maintenance if sedentary is 1960, and if lightly active (but no other exercise) is 2300. This means it thinks your BMR is about 1633. (I thought lightly active was a multiplier of 1.5, which would give 2450, but not sure about that.)
TDEE has your maintenance (with activity) at about 2450, which gives you 1960 with a 20% cut (-490 or just under a lb). So whatever you told it about your exercise/activity caused it to estimate about 490 calories on average per day beyond just being sedentary (if all else is equal). This is consistent with the difference I get from Scooby between sedentary and assuming 3-5 hours/week of strenuous exercise.
So the question seems to be if 490 calories every day is a good estimate of what you actually do on average (with the understanding that it's more some days and less others). If so, that's what you should be logging in MFP too, so it should even out. If not, then you might want to adjust the TDEE number if you go that way.
It sounds as if you are questioning whether your actual workout burns are as high as Scooby is estimating. The Scooby activity entries are pretty imprecise (arguably this is appropriate, since you can't really know it and need to adjust anyway). Also, they probably add in some daily activity for people who say they are more active beyond the workouts, I don't know how their calculation for activity works. If you are concerned that the amount you burn in walking around plus exercise isn't so high, don't use the Scooby number.
I'd say try it and adjust if your results aren't good, though.
The point is she is hungry. So, probably not eating as much as she could be, while still seeing weight loss, but increasing fuel for performance and preserving lean body mass.
I understand that calculators are estimates. Just correcting what seems like an easy mistake.
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debrakgoogins wrote: »Again, if you set your TDEE to SEDENTARY, when you do indeed exercise, then it is not calculated properly.
You need to include your exercise in TDEE, so choose a higher activity level.
I understand that. My original post may have been confusing. When I stated I have my activity level as sedentary, I meant that is what I currently have in MFP - as a reference to show the difference between MFP and TDEE.
I believe I correctly identified my exercise in the TDEE (indicating 3-5 days of moderate exercise - I didn't choose the next highest level because that was 5-6 days of strenuous which I don't always accomplish) and the MFP (sedentary because I have a desk job).
Oh, okay, I misunderstood.
You could probably eat a more and still lose at a good rate. And, you will be able to preserve lean body mass, and have more fuel for performance.
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The point is she is hungry. So, probably not eating as much as she could be, while still seeing weight loss, but increasing fuel for performance and preserving lean body mass.
I said nothing about what she should eat (except encouraging her to try the higher TDEE and adjust if needed). I was just trying to explain why the numbers were different and what they were based on. So I am not sure what the "mistake" is here or really your response to my post.
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debrakgoogins wrote: »@lemurcat12 Thank you. Actually, thank you to everyone. My concern is that I am happy with my rate of loss...will changing my calories to that extreme drastically change my rate of loss? I don't want to be hungry but I also don't want to ruin my momentum.
If it reduces your rate of loss you can always just lower the calories a little until you are happy with it again. The thing you have to watch out for is that often adding a new workout program can reduce losses at first anyway, since you get more water weight. But on the other hand how many calories you burn is dependent on your intensity and movement throughout the day, and that could increase/be better if you aren't feeling so hungry.0 -
debrakgoogins wrote: »@lemurcat12 Thank you. Actually, thank you to everyone. My concern is that I am happy with my rate of loss...will changing my calories to that extreme drastically change my rate of loss? I don't want to be hungry but I also don't want to ruin my momentum.
If you increase your calories, your weight loss will likely slow a bit. How much depends on your body and how much more you eat. But, if you aren't hungry all the time, you are more likely to stick with the changes, put more effort in to your workouts, and be less likely to binge or "cheat". So the tradeoff is usually worth it.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »The point is she is hungry. So, probably not eating as much as she could be, while still seeing weight loss, but increasing fuel for performance and preserving lean body mass.
I said nothing about what she should eat (except encouraging her to try the higher TDEE and adjust if needed). I was just trying to explain why the numbers were different and what they were based on. So I am not sure what the "mistake" is here or really your response to my post.
Oh, because I'm a dope and at a quick glance I thought you had quoted my post, and so I was clarifying my point. So, nevermind. lol.
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Thank you again everyone for your help. I have decided to adjust my macros for a start. I changed to a split that gives me more protein to help me feel full longer. I will try that for two weeks then go from there.0
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I think I get what you mean.... The only exercise I get Is walking. Some days I might walk over 20,000 steps, other days it might only be 10,000. It's never exactly the same. So I set my activity level to sedentary, let fitbit sync to mfp and then I can decide how much or how little to eat that day.
Some days I burn 350 calories, other days 850. I let mfp do the math for me0 -
My own experience with this is that by increasing my calories (and having the content of those calories be nutritious and not just sugar) I was no longer hungry AND my workouts were more productive. My rate of loss slowed to a half pound a week ... on the up side, I had more energy, made more gains in strength, mobility and balance, and made appreciable changes (for the good) in body measurements. Don't be a slave to the scale 0
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I have noticed that even though strength training doesn't burn near as many calories as the HIIT exercise I do, it makes me hungrier- Perhaps because I am newer to weight lifting. I added a whey protein shake to my menu - it is very filling and the extra protein seems to help.0
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