Day 5 Depression
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TL;DR all the thread.
There is no need to cut all sugar from your diet. Otherwise, you'll end up binging even more. Eat some sweet fruits or a piece of chocolate if you can manage moderation.0 -
OP have you been diagnosed as depressed? Are you on medication for it?
Why not cut by 50% the sugar you add to your drinks and gradually reduce it to nothing or drink water? It will wean you off.
Thank you for asking. Not that my mental status is a free for all, but yes I have been clinically diagnosed with depression in the past. I was recently weaned off anti-depressants under a physchologist's supervision and have been seen repeatedly to ensure that I am doing well.0 -
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23719144
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3272277/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/
http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S22/88/56G31/index.xml?section=topstories
I would like to take a minute and thank those that have supported me through this "hurdle" in the goal of bettering myself. I have provided articles for some reading on the brains response to sugar and the brains response to substance abuse as well as the definition of addiction. Please feel free to pick apart the ideas and CONFIRMED diagnoses' that these PHD and MD credentialed Dr's have developed. Please let me know what the nurse practitioner and you a STUDENT in the healthcare field think. I have made sure to pull these from trusted verified medical sites and papers. If you would like more please let me know as these can be found at Princeton, Harvard, Psychology Today ect.0 -
jasmineboyle wrote: »
No I can't keep hot chocolate in the house because I end up putting double or triple the normal amount of powder in a mug to make it an extra sweet sludge. When I say sugar addict, I mean that quite literally. You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to just buy less liquor and portion it out better. And it's not that I have intentionally cut sugar, just making healthier choices which naturally leads to consuming less empty calories like sugar.
My goal is the 40% carb, 30% fat and 30% protein so I have greatly increased my protein intake and no I haven't cut caffeine.
I'm starting to feel like a freak though because no one seems to understand the physiological addiction. It's more than knowledge, willpower and planning...
I totally understand and I'm the same. There is no "just one" with me. A lot of people on this forum will insist sugar addiction doesn't exist, but they are mistaken. (I didn't even bother reading the previous posts, because I've heard it all before and I'm not interested in arguing about it. I'm aware that the medical community is divided on the subject at the moment, but I don't need a research paper to validate it for me.)
Anyway, I'm approaching my addiction (just starting out with this approach) like I did when I quit smoking, so I'm having none... no desserts, no sugary fruits, etc. And yes, withdrawal symptoms, depression, insomnia, cravings... suck but as someone pointed out, they are temporary. Just hang in there!
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
Anyway, I'm approaching my addiction (just starting out with this approach) like I did when I quit smoking, so I'm having none... no desserts, no sugary fruits, etc. And yes, withdrawal symptoms, depression, insomnia, cravings... suck but as someone pointed out, they are temporary. Just hang in there!
What about vegetables? Dairy? Are you truly having nothing with sugar?
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hsmith0930 wrote: »
It is ridiculously offensive to me that you would try to liken your CHOICE to not deal with a little bit of discomfort the the very real and LIFE THREATENING reality that make up true chemical dependency. Peope DIE from withdrawals. Their heart stops because they stop taking drugs. You know what will happen to you if you stop eating plain sugar? You might get a headache. You might feel a bit hungrier than normal. Maybe some digestive upset. Now stop playing the victim and make the decision. You do want to make the change or you don't.
I'd just like to add, uninformed posts like this are "ridiculously offensive". No-one dies from nicotine withdrawal either but does that mean nicotine is not addictive?
Oh, and guess what happens when you go through nicotine withdrawal? You get a headache. You feel hungrier than normal. You get depressed and cranky.... etc etc
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janejellyroll wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
Anyway, I'm approaching my addiction (just starting out with this approach) like I did when I quit smoking, so I'm having none... no desserts, no sugary fruits, etc. And yes, withdrawal symptoms, depression, insomnia, cravings... suck but as someone pointed out, they are temporary. Just hang in there!
What about vegetables? Dairy? Are you truly having nothing with sugar?
I'm not having anything with any added sugar, or any foods that are naturally high in sugar (including apples, pears, grapes, bananas, dried fruit, juice, beetroot, etc), or anything with artificial sweeteners either as those seem to trigger sugar cravings in me. I liken this approach to using nicotine patches or gum as an aid to quit smoking – you get a tiny bit of the addictive substance, but none of the emotional gratification that comes with the habit.
I've read things that suggest there needs to be a certain concentration of an addictive substance in something to 'set off' the user (and have found this is backed up in my own experience. Apples set me off, for example, but raspberries don't). Similarly, my reformed alcoholic brother in law can eat fruit cake that has been infused with brandy without it triggering a drinking relapse.
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"Chrysalid2014 wrote: »I'm not having anything with any added sugar, or any foods that are naturally high in sugar (including apples, pears, grapes, bananas, dried fruit, juice, beetroot, etc), or anything with artificial sweeteners either as those seem to trigger sugar cravings in me.
So when your post above said "none," it meant none outside of a definition you established? This seems a bit like the guy who will tell you get stopped drinking before he explains why beer doesn't "really count."
The principle of over-coming an addiction though moderating consumption only is pretty controversial. It seems a bit bizarre to want to wrap yourself in the validating language of addiction and then reject the methods generally used in treating addiction.
Of course, as you said, you reject the idea of comparing your personal experience to what research has shown and adjusting your views on reality accordingly.
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janejellyroll wrote: »
So when your post above said "none," it meant none outside of a definition you established? This seems a bit like the guy who will tell you get stopped drinking before he explains why beer doesn't "really count."
Yes, that's what it meant. Beer counts for my bro-in-law, but rum babas and brandy infused fruit cake don't count. And he's been sober for ten years. [Edited for clarification to add: the point being that (some) recovered addicts are able to tolerate small amounts of the addictive substance in very small concentrations without triggering a relapse.]janejellyroll wrote: »
The principle of over-coming an addiction though moderating consumption only is pretty controversial. It seems a bit bizarre to want to wrap yourself in the validating language of addiction and then reject the methods generally used in treating addiction.
As eating a diet comprised of 100% meat and fish isn't an option for me, there isn't really any other way to go about it.0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Yes, that's what it meant. Beer counts for my bro-in-law, but rum babas and brandy infused fruit cake don't count. And he's been sober for ten years.
I am not sure how personal anecdotes about your brother-in-law are supposed to be received. Because your brother-in-law eats fruitcake, sugar addiction is real?
My point is that you aren't eating none, you are eating some. This seems to indicate (along with the anecdotes about your brother-in-law) that you believe addiction can be treated through simply moderating consumption. The point is that this is a somewhat controversial idea for treatment.
I realize you already said you don't care what research shows, but for people who do, I think it is worth noting.
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OP, I get it. Ignore the haters and self-righteous idiots. Because they do not experience addiction to sugar, they think it is impossible. I have been where you are. What you are dealing with sounds legit, based on my experience and your description. The "support" section on MFP is poorly moderated and you get more snarky disrespect than support here.
As to your original post, hang in there as long as you can. It gets easier, but never totally goes away. Find a healthy replacement obsession. ZombiesRun and Couch to 5K was that for me. I had to play (walking, then running) to build my virtual town.
Lastly, like most addicts, you will fall off the wagon at some point. Forgive yourself and know that the sooner you climb back on the easier it will be. You can do this!0 -
oooookay I'm blown away with the disrespect I'm seeing here.
Jasmineboyle -- don't take the naysayers to heart. I was married to an alcoholic, my father was an alcoholic, and yes, I was ADDICTED to sugar and felt every single thing you're feeling now. The two stimulants are different and they cause different reactions, but yes, it is legitimate and others being offended doesn't change that. The fact that other people take offense to it just goes to show that they don't understand what you're going through... and there is PLENTY of evidence out there that shows sugar IS chemically addictive. I won't even argue this point anymore because it's ridiculous.
I felt the same way you did--you just have to push through it. If you can hold off sugar for a week or two you will start to see everything drastically improve, including your mood. I'm a totally different person now that I don't have that addiction. My decision making skills are better, I have more energy, things don't affect me emotionally as much...the list goes on. But sticking to it long enough to get it out of your system can be tough.
If you haven't already I'd look into keto, that's what I used to help me during that rough patch because when your body is in ketosis you can seriously eat as much as you want (of the approved foods) and since I was so distraught over THE LACK OF MY STIMULANT, I wanted to eat and eat and eat....after a few days that tapered off, but it was good to have the backup.
Feel free to add me if you'd like support. And I'm sorry that the posters in this thread are being ridiculous. That seems to happen around here, there's a bit of a hive mind and if you don't do exactly as everyone else you're "wrong."0 -
Am afraid you miss the point in that is it a proven physiological addiction or is it not? Clearly a lot of people think it is and others think it isnt. you arent really going to convince either camp.
In the context of losing weight, then its suely more constructive to work out ways of becoming less reliant on sugar if thats one of the things that stands in your way of hitting your calorific deficit. Be practial and pragmatic instead of dwelling on things.
Hunger and nutrition were more important factors to me and if I wnat sugar that badly then I will go an exercise for it. In the meantime I look to reduce sugar in practical ways, not because its evil but because it makes it more difficult to hit goals. At some stage losing weight becomes more importnat than the hit you get from sugar and you figue out alternatives.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »Good luck in your endeavours. You're going to need it.
Toodles.
I don't know how you feel comfortable with yourself at night, having such a disgusting attitude.
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theutahdesertfox wrote: »others being offended doesn't change that. The fact that other people take offense to it just goes to show that they don't understand what you're going through...
Disagreeing with someone isn't the same thing as being offended.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »jasmineboyle wrote: »OK small AP lesson. For all those out there whobelieve that sugar is not an addiction I challenge you to look up the definition of an addiction and what it does to your brain. You will find that the addictions to cocaine and alcohol have the same effect on your brain that sugar does and when you grow up with having a constant influx of sugar you tend to have the same reaction as an adequate this is been scientifically proven and can have an addiction.I also find it interesting that a place where you are supposed to get support can have so much negativity.
Nevermind the derision or the hysterics or the personal umbrage displayed by those who think junkies and drunks are the only "addicts" to be taken seriously or who deserve a modicum of empathy.
The long term damage done to the human body caused by morbid obesity rivals the bodily damage caused by recreational drug use and too much vodka.
Socially, people who eat to self destruct at least have the courtesy not to rob, scam and physically assault the rest of us to get their hands on what they're compelled to fill their bodies with.
I'll take a food "addict" any day over that lot.
There are 4 different 12 Step groups for food addicts in existence that I'm aware of, and they are all thriving and saving peoples' lives every day.
Food Addicts Anonymous
Food Addicts in Recovery Anonymous
Overeaters Anonymous
Greysheeters Anonymous
If support is your biggest requirement right now, I suggest you look up one of these groups in your area. Now that you've gotten a taste of MFP.
And, of course, enablers don't help, although the real tragedy is that they think they do.
Whatever.
Tell that to the millions of obese and morbidly obese who have been helped to return to normal weight and maintain normal weight by face-to-face 12 Step Food Fellowship meetings, like the ones I listed.
You'd have to do that in person though.
And it might be a tad more inconvenient then smearing your smug *kitten* online.
Have you ever been to one of those meetings? I have, and I don't think they are what you think they are.
I had to attend a meeting for a mental health class in college. The cocaine addicts anonymous meeting was less than helpful, so I went to OEA. It was like a pro-ana forum in person. The most unhealthy behaviors were lauded and encouraged. No one had a healthy relationship with food and the people who were the least healthy were held up as examples. The obsessive thought processes were there in full force. One woman was going to have to to go a family members birthday party, which lead to a 30 minute conversation about how to avoid cake. Get on a pro-ana site, you'll find the same thing. Several of them would not eat solid food and had a lot of "never" foods, which are characteristic of restrictive eating disorders.
In short, I am very skeptical that these groups do anything to help the mental health and wellbeing of their members.0 -
How about adding natural raw cacao to smoothies? You only need a tiny bit and it does give a kick which is much nicer than sugar I find. I add bananas, soy milk and cacao to smoothies with a leaf of fresh mint and its like after eights
The other option is to blend coconut oil, dates and cacao into a mush then roll them up into little balls and refrigerate. No sugar but perfect chocolately treats which are little powerballs 
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Guys if you wnat to go down the addicted to sugar route then why not join one of the groups or establish your own? Its a controversial subject, which many people are not convinced by and you wont change their views, just like they wont change yours.
Id have thought the priority would have been to find ways to effectively lose weight.0 -
Guys if you wnat to go down the addicted to sugar route then why not join one of the groups or establish your own? Its a controversial subject, which many people are not convinced by and you wont change their views, just like they wont change yours.
Id have thought the priority would have been to find ways to effectively lose weight.[/quote
Lovely of you to suggest the group thing though. I think it's a veiled way of saying "Don't Talk About This Here Because Your Priorities Are Wrong. You Should Be Talking About Effective Ways To Lose Weight"
No, it's a suggestion that you might get more support for your view in a group with like-minded people, where on the main forums you'll have to spend your time arguing when you could be exercising.0 -
rockmama72 wrote: »No, it's a suggestion that you might get more support for your view in a group with like-minded people, where on the main forums you'll have to spend your time arguing when you could be exercising.
Shouldn't you be exercising now? Waste no more time. Run along.
Not sure where the hostility came from, but um... I'm not wrong. You'll never agree with everyone on the main forums.
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Its amazing the amount of people that are picking apart peoples comments. Instead of agreeing to disagree it seems there are people here just watching and waiting to pounce on any comment that doesnt fit what they feel is right and wrong. Why bother posting? If you do not like the OPs original comment dont comment, keep scrolling.
Best of luck to the OP in your weight loss.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »All your sources apart from the second one, which is a general commentary on the mechanics of addiction which doesn't mention sugar at all, are rat studies.
So it's strange that you missed the latest global review, which takes into account previous research, and which actually deals with human studies. It's also by PhDs and MDs, so you should be happy with its credentials.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763414002140
Bottom line: There is no significant evidence that sugar or any food is addictive, whilst there is plenty that behavioural habits can exist and be reinforced. In other words, it's not the sugar. It's you.
Unless you have a long snout, a tail, sharp teeth, and whiskers, that is.
While I haven't had time to read the entire article yet, it seem like it is saying that all addictions are compulsive behavior and there is no such thing as an addiction at all. They specifically linked substance abuse (drugs and alcohol) to a compulsive behavior rather than a chemical dependance on a substance.
Quotes from that article "Drug addiction has been defined as a chronically relapsing disorder characterized by (1) compulsion to seek and take the drug, (2) loss of control in limiting drug intake, and (3) emergence of a negative emotional state (e.g., dysphoria, anxiety and irritability) reflecting a motivational withdrawal syndrome when access to the drug is prevented; Koob (2013) refers to the term ‘reward deficit disorder’ for alcoholism and other drug addictions, which are based on multiple motivational mechanisms and progress from impulsivity (positive reinforcement) to compulsivity (negative reinforcement). Compulsive drug seeking can be derived from multiple neuroadaptations. Koob stresses that a key component of addiction is based on the construct of negative reinforcement defined as drug taking that alleviates a negative emotional state. This state is hypothesized to result from the dysregulation of specific neurochemical elements involved in reward and stress within the basal forebrain structures (Koob, 2013)."
This process is EXACTLY what I am going through.
....?
So if you are picking apart the use of the word addict because you believe no such thing exists, then yes, I am "NOT addicted" in a very similar way that alcoholics are "NOT addicted". And my non-addiction reward defecit disorder greatly affects me. I am looking for behavior modifications and encouragement to assist me in my endeavor to break the cycle of a negative emotional state and compulsive behavior.0 -
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Sprinkled in between this debate on sugar and addictions are some very real, very helpful tips on how to manage this first stage of food restrictions. Thank you to everyone who has something constructive and respectful to say.0
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First, I'm sorry about all the negative & know-it-All responses you've gotten.
Here's what I do: my husband keeps that stuff in the house still. Cookies, little debbies etc. he buys them and hides them from me.out of sight out if mind usually. But If I need something sweet I'll ask for one and he'll dig it out for me without showing me where it is. So much of it is just sheer willpower. Good luck!0 -
hsmith0930 wrote: »It is ridiculously offensive to me that you would try to liken your CHOICE to not deal with a little bit of discomfort the the very real and LIFE THREATENING reality that make up true chemical dependency.
Wait,... are you trying to say that obesity is not a life threatening reality? Because I know a few thousand Americans who would disagree with that.0 -
jasmineboyle wrote: »futuremanda wrote: »Are you willing to eat more natural sugars? (Fruit, dairy, etc) <-- Might help with the adjustment.
Maybe find an option you'd be unlikely to overdo? Like, say, hot chocolate. If you had that in the house, would you realistically go drink five mugs, or would you just make one?
Did you cut anything else by the way? You say you did a cupboard cleanse... are you getting enough fat and protein? Are you trying to go low carb? Did you cut caffeine (on purpose, or by accident -- i.e. cutting out cola would cut your caffeine if you're not then drinking more coffee or tea to compensate)? Keep your fat & protein & carb intake up: don't go low carb on the whole (right now at least) and don't try to cut caffeine simultaneously.
Otherwise, you may just have to push through if this is something you want, and if you are not willing to try eating it in moderation (at least right now). It can't really last forever, right? Get out, get sunlight, get moving, get enough food, keep busy, remind yourself that it's temporary.
ETA: Did you also mega-slash your calories? I cannot stress enough the one massive, stressful change at a time (if you must make one at all) thing. Depression can be triggered by many such things, so if you're also suddenly on a huge deficit, that could be part of the issue. Pop up to maintenance or a bit below (250 cals maybe, 0.5 lb a week) until you adjust.
No I can't keep hot chocolate in the house because I end up putting double or triple the normal amount of powder in a mug to make it an extra sweet sludge. When I say sugar addict, I mean that quite literally. You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to just buy less liquor and portion it out better. And it's not that I have intentionally cut sugar, just making healthier choices which naturally leads to consuming less empty calories like sugar.
My goal is the 40% carb, 30% fat and 30% protein so I have greatly increased my protein intake and no I haven't cut caffeine.
I'm starting to feel like a freak though because no one seems to understand the physiological addiction. It's more than knowledge, willpower and planning...
Hi sweetie! I too am a sugar addict and girl you are not a freak! Ok at first you will feel depressed but it will pass! I had a huge sugar problem and sometimes struggle still when trigger foods are brought home like around easter and Halloween. Other wise I do not bringit home. Message me or friend me and ill help you through! People do not understand s7gar addiction and that at the stage u r at no such thing as moderation! It will get better and you will feel better.0 -
Lily's makes great chocolate sweetened with Stevia. Fewer calories and far less calories from sugar. Might help.
http://lilyssweets.com0 -
hsmith0930 wrote: »I thought I was the same way. I really did think that if I had treats in the house I was doomed to eat them, and since we keep goodies for the kids I was destined to never lose weight. Then I realized I was wrong. It is MY CHOICE to eat what I want. Whether that is 15 candy bars, because I WANT to eat that, or just one or two hershey's minis. The food is not making that decision for me. And if I WANT to eat more than would be considered a typical serving, that's fine. It's my choice to do that.
I can choose to incorporate it into my calories, and eat less of something else. Or I can choose to go over my calorie goal and accept that I may lose a little less that week, which, oh well. It's not like a race where I have to lose X pounds by a certain time. This is just how I am living my life now, so sometimes I will eat more than others and that is totally fine. It will all settle out in the long term, as long as I am making sure MOST days are adhering to my calorie goals.
You don't have to be depressed and deprived. I understand that feeling and I've felt that feeling a lot. Then I stopped being a victim to the food and chose to be in control.
Same! And part of my problem was I was always either on a diet or off of it. And since I "couldn't" have certain things on a diet I would eat them all while I could when I was off. Craziness! Now that I have my permission to eat anything at any time, I don't feel that panicky urge to eat it while I can.
I am with you ladies here
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I hope the OP takes what she can use from this thread, and leaves the rest. OP, it's worth trying to stop intake of foods with added sugar. If you can make it a week, you might have it licked.
Some people can "eat anything at any time," and it works. But if you have an issue with sugar, that may not be the way to go. Because if you can't just eat one Hershey's kiss, an you know that, what's the point of eating one? No amount of bullying or shaming will change that fact. Accept it and find the solution that works for you.
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