Lean muscle lost
Merkavar
Posts: 3,082 Member
Hey
Is there any sort of healthy range of lean body weight lost? My understanding is that losing 1kg won't be 1kg of fat, some muscle is lost.
If you had accurate body fat percentage measurements you could work out how much fat and muscle was lost couldn't you?
Is there a healthy or normal range of muscle lost?
Say I was losing 1kg if body weight a week. But my body fat total only went down by .75 kg the other .25 would most likely be muscle etc.
Are there any guidelines etc that if you find your losing too much muscle it's a sign you need more protein or strength exercises.
Since some muscle loss is likely inevitable I was just wondering what amount of muscle lost would be alarming, cause for concern.
No need to tell me that body fat scales etc are inaccurate, I think most are aware of that :P
Is there any sort of healthy range of lean body weight lost? My understanding is that losing 1kg won't be 1kg of fat, some muscle is lost.
If you had accurate body fat percentage measurements you could work out how much fat and muscle was lost couldn't you?
Is there a healthy or normal range of muscle lost?
Say I was losing 1kg if body weight a week. But my body fat total only went down by .75 kg the other .25 would most likely be muscle etc.
Are there any guidelines etc that if you find your losing too much muscle it's a sign you need more protein or strength exercises.
Since some muscle loss is likely inevitable I was just wondering what amount of muscle lost would be alarming, cause for concern.
No need to tell me that body fat scales etc are inaccurate, I think most are aware of that :P
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It seems that the not super controversial (yeah right, like that's going to happen) suggestions for retention of fat free mass areAre there any guidelines etc that if you find your losing too much muscle it's a sign you need more protein or strength exercises.
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i) smaller deficit not to exceed loss of 1.5% of bodyweight per week in obese individuals and 1% per week in overweight individuals, and yes, I am simplifying instead of using % fat since most people cannot accurately find out their fat %
ii) eating 0.8g of protein per lb of body weight
iii) maximize progressive lifting and minimize aerobic exercise.
If you have a lot of available fat a deficit of 20% TDEE is probably OK. if you don't, you might want to taper off to 15% or even 10%
I don't know that there is a "sign" it is time to do more based on body fat % and the measurement thereof would be a huge issue by itself. So, just do everything you can (and are happy doing) to minimize it in the first place!
There is still disagreement as to what the ratio of fat to non fat loss are, and in what conditions they happen. At least to my lay-person's look through the literature I didn't find consistent answers. Study after study reported different mixes of lean to not lean losses (and different definitions too...)
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One issue I run into is there doesn't seem to be a consistent amount of protein. I hear everything from .8 to 1 g per kg/pound of lean/total body weight.
So I get protein levels of 80-180.0 -
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I have heard in the past that it should be .8g per lb of lbm or 1g per lb of bodyweight.0
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It's supposed to be total bodyweight. 0.8g per lb. So as a 204lb person I am supposed to shoot for 163g of protein. As a man you can probably eat a little more than that if you wanted. Protein helps build muscle, so you want that to be the highest percentage of your daily macros
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You also won't necessarily know your accurate BF% unless you get it professionally done....but you can get a rough idea with scales and measurements. If you're strength training while also losing weight you will retain muscle (and gain it to a certain point), you won't lose muscle mass. Most people don't lose muscle mass unless they have an eating disorder and/or are severely undernourished. As you lose weight and work out more, you'll find that you get stronger.0
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You will lose some muscle mass regardless. Your body doesn't need to support your former weight. You will still feel stronger as your muscle to weight ratio will be more favourable.
The figure I've decided on for myself is 0.8g per lb of body weight (1.76g per kg of body weight).
I've seen figures as low as 0.6g and as high as 1g with the conclusion that 0.8g already provides sufficient fudge factor to account for occasional under eating, fake protein powder/bar claims, and non-absorption by eating too much in one sitting.0 -
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That's not what I am eating if that's what you thought.
Just saying that's the range of protein I have seen for my body weight, lean body weight in kg and pounds.0 -
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Oh geez. 110kg x any of those numbers comes out to be a lot of protein.
I think I need to have a look at my protein intake again.
Here I come Google.0 -
That's not what I am eating if that's what you thought.
Just saying that's the range of protein I have seen for my body weight, lean body weight in kg and pounds.
You are not remembering that correctly. 1.8 - 2.2 grams per kg or .6-.87g per lb of bodyweight.
I may be misunderstanding but I'm sure I am remembering correctly.
I just googled protein requirements and found two sites that gave .8-1g of protein per kg. that's what I'm saying depending on where you look you get a different answer.
Do you have a source for the numbers your giving? Maybe I can look there.
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There is no pure conclusion with an exact number. People arrive at ranges based on various studies. Google Foo it.
Lyle McDonald seems to give out 0.6g to 0.8g protein when adding muscle mass.
Baysian Bodybuilding says no more than 0.82g per lb to preserve or build muscle with no recorded advantage at more than 0.64g per lb.
So to ME, it appears that a 0.8g goal for most days is overkill enough, with a mental 0.5g minimum. These are per lb of total weight.0 -
That's not what I am eating if that's what you thought.
Just saying that's the range of protein I have seen for my body weight, lean body weight in kg and pounds.
You are not remembering that correctly. 1.8 - 2.2 grams per kg or .6-.87g per lb of bodyweight.
I may be misunderstanding but I'm sure I am remembering correctly.
I just googled protein requirements and found two sites that gave .8-1g of protein per kg. that's what I'm saying depending on where you look you get a different answer.
Do you have a source for the numbers your giving? Maybe I can look there.
Show me your site that says .8 - 1g per kg
Not the person you asked, but here it is:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/protein-questions/
0.8 grams per kg is the minimun, the upper limit depending on your health issues (or lack of health issues)0 -
Not the person you asked, but here it is:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/protein-questions/
0.8 grams per kg is the minimun, the upper limit depending on your health issues (or lack of health issues)
That figure is the minimum recommendation for a person who is maintaining their weight.
i.e. there is no extra load for either trying to preserve or built muscle.
Are all the figures in play, even 0.6g per lb, much higher than the minimum recommendations? Yes, they are.
There are three things about protein that I like! It keeps me full longer than most carbs do. It costs more calories than carbs to process. And it possibly has muscle sparing benefits.
On the downside it may have an effect on your kidneys if you have existing problems.
Based on the above, I don't have a problem with trying to keep my intake near or above 150g(which is much more than 0.6 and less than 0.8 per lb. i.e. at almost 2x the minimum).
YMMV
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.8 g/kg bodyweight is the usual recommendation to just maintain bodily health. It doesn't get into whether there's a need for more when at a deficit (as many believe) and it's not trying to be the optimal for maintaining lean muscle mass or strength training. The consensus seems to be that there's a benefit up to at least .8-1 g/lb of LBM for muscle.
The .8 g/lb of bodyweight, I think, is a way to estimate LBM for those who don't know it and give you a 1 lb/LBM number. It's not all that useful for obese people or many women, since your bodyweight is going to be much higher (it assumes roughly 20% body fat).
What makes sense for me, for women, is to go for .8 g/lb of goal weight. If it's a reasonable goal weight 20% body fat probably isn't a terrible estimate (likely it will be higher, but that builds in some wiggle room, and if you are seriously aiming for lower you probably know your body fat percentage well enough to be able to use something besides this rough estimate).
For men this would have to be adjusted, but 1 g/lb or even .8 g/lb if you have lots to lose is probably unnecessary. I'd take a rough estimate of LBM and go for .8-1 of that.
All that aside, I personally end up eating way more protein than I need under any of these formulas, but that's because I'm relatively small (5'3), so my total protein number still isn't that high and I like lots of protein rich foods.0 -
There are too many variables in LBM and diet to give one answer. Some calculations are based on LBM only, some on total body mass. Different protiens are more bio available than others, ect. If you feel energetic and healthy, most likely you are good.0
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