Half-Marathon plan seems a little.......short on the long runs??

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joehempel
joehempel Posts: 1,761 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I'm training to run for a sub 2 half-marathon and using the miCoach app. Currently maintaining an 8:15-8:30 pace on my "hard" runs, 9:25-10:30 on the "medium" and less than 10:30 on the "easy". My intervals are about 5:30-6:00 pace.

The longest run they have you do (each is a timed run, not distance) is 1:25. Now, my thoughts have always been on the long run days to run long, but run slow-er, but hit a certain mileage because more time on your feet the better.

Seeing this is a bit counter-intuitive to me. Why am I going to run only about 9 miles for my longest run for a 13.1 mile run??

I've heard "oh the adrenaline will carry you through" BS......I've run several half-marathons, that adrenaline runs out before the finish.

Any thoughts??

Replies

  • scottb81
    scottb81 Posts: 2,538 Member
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    If you are capable then you will be a lot better off extending some of those long runs to 2 hrs. Distance is still unimportant. Magic things begin happening after the 90 minute mark. The pace should be about the same as your normal easy pace.
  • CarsonRuns
    CarsonRuns Posts: 3,039 Member
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    To address the long run specifically, it really depends on your level of fitness, how long you have been running and how long of a LSD (Long Steady Distance) run you have done in the past. For the first timer, a LSD up to about 1:25 seems a little on the low side to me. I would say 1:45 would be better as most of the beginners that fall into that category are going to be shooting for something in the 2:00 to 2:30 range. Yeah, it's a bit of a stretch to get in that last 45 minutes, but that is the experience that some runners are going for.

    For the more experienced runner, I suggest an LSD between 12 and 16 miles for the build up prior to the race with some of those being fast finish or have other workouts embedded within.

    You say you have run several HMs, so it sounds like you need a more advanced plan than the one you are using.

    Just some notes on your pacing as well. You should be capable of getting through your LSD fairly easily running it at the same pace that you do your easy runs. If you have to slow down to get through it, then you are running your easy runs too fast. You also mention "hard" runs and "intervals" but not how long the hard run is nor what distance the repeats are (repeats are the fast part, the interval is the slow part) or what their intention is. It's important to know exactly what the purpose of each workout is to make sure that it is going to help you move toward you goal, not away from it. If I'm designing a HM plan for someone, I'm going to implement some running at LT pace, a little bit of running at faster than LT pace, some running at projected HM pace and some strides (which are always a part of any plan I write).

    Hope this was helpful for you.
  • mygrl4meee
    mygrl4meee Posts: 943 Member
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    I am doing a half Marathon in June. I looked at some of the programs and thought the same thing on the long runs being limited. I am just doing my own thing and will add distance and time as I go.
  • kristinegift
    kristinegift Posts: 2,406 Member
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    That does seem short, especially if you're doing 1:25 at a 10:30 pace. For all my half marathon plans, I've had a max run of 12 miles. Maybe shoot for a 1:50-2:00 long run at the easy target pace. That will prepare you better for race day, in terms of time spent on your feet.
  • joehempel
    joehempel Posts: 1,761 Member
    edited May 2015
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    Thanks folks. Yeah I've run 2 marathons and about 6 half marathons.

    I found a plan that extends the long runs to 2-2.25 hours with the cool down.

    My marathon was a slow pace at 11:20 after hitting the darn wall, my fastest half was last year at 2:01:10. I'm looking at that same race for a sub 2.

    I'm varying the pace, using HR as a guide and am able to sustain thus far (my longest run on the plan) 45 minutes at 8:30-8:45 without killing my self on my steady runs. My easy runs are generally at 10:30 or 11:00

    Oh, my intervals are 10 minute warm-up, :30 hard (6:00 pace) :60-90 cool down six times, 10 minute cool down
  • joehempel
    joehempel Posts: 1,761 Member
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    Oh, and more info.

    8:35 is my LT Pace (according to training peaks.) an there is 1 run each week at LT pace and during the long runs later in the program I'm running say 45 at slow pace, 30 at LT pace on some occasions.

    Also, the question as been asked before ,why I'm looking at plans.... I've hit a wall in improving. I saw steady increases in performance as I was losing weight and now need to work on a focused plan to improve speed over the half since I'm pretty much maintaining.
  • _Waffle_
    _Waffle_ Posts: 13,049 Member
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    CarsonRuns wrote: »
    For the more experienced runner, I suggest an LSD between 12 and 16 miles for the build up prior to the race with some of those being fast finish or have other workouts embedded within.

    There you have it. When I worked up to doing 16 mile long runs I broke through the 2 hour barrier easily. That made all the difference for me. I know generally it was an increase in miles per week but that definitely contributed to the miles. It also made a 13 mile run seem like not such a big deal. Now anything 15 and under seems like a shorter long run.

    As far as long run pace I generally do them @ 9:40 - 10:00 pace with the occasional fast finish the last 3 miles. Adding in a day with some faster intervals during the week will give you all the confidence you need to finish a half at a 9:09 pace. Perhaps a set of 4 - 5 strides for 20 seconds at the end of an easy run too.

    Your faster paced runs don't need to be that fast if you're doing 45 minutes. (IMHO) I'll do mile repeats (and shorter) at 7:50 - 8:20 but when you're going out past a mile I hardly ever get under an 8:40 pace. There's no need for that. It's basically my HMP and I'm not going to race the entire thing at an 8:20 (yet) so I'm not going to train as if I were doing that. You'll just be wore out the next day and your MPW will suffer.
  • joehempel
    joehempel Posts: 1,761 Member
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    That's what's funny. The 8:45 doesn't seem hard anymore. Its more like med-hard, which is nice finally
  • _Waffle_
    _Waffle_ Posts: 13,049 Member
    edited May 2015
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    joehempel wrote: »
    That's what's funny. The 8:45 doesn't seem hard anymore. Its more like med-hard, which is nice finally

    For 2 hours though? That's the kicker. it's a bit of work the last couple miles to keep up. I can do 8:30 for 10 miles any day but tacking on another 5k at that pace is work. Last race I had to ease up on mile 11 and 12 just to keep from burning out.

    If you can then 2:00 is an easy time. That's just a 9:09 pace.
  • teacton11
    teacton11 Posts: 65 Member
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    If 8:35 is your true LT pace than 2 hours ain't no thing.

    I have found more value and direction out of this one pdf than 90% of the training plans I have ever used. Read it, read it again, then again for understanding.

    http://www.lydiardfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/al_training_eng.pdf

    p.s. I think your training plan is crap unless you are putting in some junk miles that aren't being counted but then again, I'm no record holder or famous coach.
  • joehempel
    joehempel Posts: 1,761 Member
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    You really have no idea what my training plan is right now though, so you can't say that it's crap.

    Thanks for the PDF I will read it for sure!
  • trswallow
    trswallow Posts: 116 Member
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    I have had good results using Hal Higdon's training plans. Except for the advanced half plan, they are all mileage based. The advanced plan maxs out with runs of 1:45 to 2:00.
  • joehempel
    joehempel Posts: 1,761 Member
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    Yeah those are great! I used them through my marathons. I'm using HR zone training (as a guide--not strictly) this time around, and I'm seeing incredible results. It helps keep me slow when I need to run easy, and I'm needing to run faster to get to other zones during different runs.
  • teacton11
    teacton11 Posts: 65 Member
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    joehempel wrote: »
    You really have no idea what my training plan is right now though, so you can't say that it's crap.

    That is very true. The main points of concern you expressed lead me to believe it's a dud but you are right, there may be much more to it so I shouldn't jump to conclusions.
  • joehempel
    joehempel Posts: 1,761 Member
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    Later in the thread I said found a plan that has me going around 2:30 on my long run, each run has a purpose, no junk miles.

    I'm quite happy so far with it. The thread just kind of took off after a few days. At that point I realized the old plan was junk and just getting me to the finish, not under 2. This is more advanced, and I spend more time on my feet.

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