KETO: How few carbs you need to maintain ketosis?

missladyfit
missladyfit Posts: 54 Member
edited November 18 in Food and Nutrition
Hello Keto friends!

I have been low carb on and off all of my adult life. I started keto the first time last year and got the "keto flu" and that's the only indication I ever had that I was actually in ketosis. I know that maintaining ketosis means limiting carbs to anywhere from 20-100 grams a day. As a person that's never experienced or noticed the other indicators of keto (bad breath, weird urine smell, etc.) I am wondering if anyone figured a method (other than blood testing) to figure out their ideal carb intake for keto? Or to know you're not in keto? Looking for answers other than "stay under 20 and you're in for sure."

TL;DR: How many carbs can you eat and still stay in ketosis? How do you know?

Thanks!
«1

Replies

  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    The typical number is <50g/day.
  • missladyfit
    missladyfit Posts: 54 Member
    For you personally or just generally?
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • missladyfit
    missladyfit Posts: 54 Member
    Oh wow. May I ask what you mean by feeling your body going in and out of ketosis?

    I only know I'm out of ketosis when I know my numbers are way out. I guess I'm just the type to calculate rather than feel, so it's just hard to wrap my head around it.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • suessm
    suessm Posts: 33 Member
    Mr_Knight wrote: »
    The typical number is <50g/day.

    Well the number is truly personal... I drop below 0.5 mmol/dl (most consider that the threshold) after about 30g/day... and my glucose levels are still in the 60s, so it's not the protein levels, which would be converted into glucose, through gluconeogenesis.

    Just my experiences.

    Michael.
  • suessm
    suessm Posts: 33 Member
    missladyfit wrote: »
    Oh wow. May I ask what you mean by feeling your body going in and out of ketosis?

    My experiences include, but not limited to, in ketosis: not hungry, and when I eat, I don't eat much, nothing it's really that appetizing. If I'm in deep ketosis, like in the 2.1 mmol/dl level, I've felt nauseous... Well it might have been due to going there in about an hour's time... I can explain that later. Not in ketosis: I can eat anything, and the junk food is very tempting (need strong willpower to resist.)

    Well that's my $0.0000002 worth.

    Michael.
  • JPW1990
    JPW1990 Posts: 2,424 Member
    General range is between 20 and 50, some can go above 50. Keep in mind, too, the higher you go, it's likely you'll be knocked out for a few hours at a time without even knowing it. Any meal that's carb heavy, relative to your total for the day, has the potential to knock you out, even if you stay at 20 or 30. You'll pop back in a few hours later and be none the wiser, provided it didn't set you on a carb binge.

    If you're trying to calculate what your own upper limit is, be very careful in that stage to equally distribute your carbs, and if you notice you are getting hungrier or less energetic, see if you went above 5% on your last meal. The number that kicks you out for a few hours is not the same as the number that will kick you out all day.
  • missladyfit
    missladyfit Posts: 54 Member
    JPW1990 wrote: »
    General range is between 20 and 50, some can go above 50. Keep in mind, too, the higher you go, it's likely you'll be knocked out for a few hours at a time without even knowing it. Any meal that's carb heavy, relative to your total for the day, has the potential to knock you out, even if you stay at 20 or 30. You'll pop back in a few hours later and be none the wiser, provided it didn't set you on a carb binge.

    If you're trying to calculate what your own upper limit is, be very careful in that stage to equally distribute your carbs, and if you notice you are getting hungrier or less energetic, see if you went above 5% on your last meal. The number that kicks you out for a few hours is not the same as the number that will kick you out all day.

    Awesome advice. I was thinking the same thing about getting kicked out temporarily and not noticing, but I never saw any other information on it. Thanks!
  • suessm
    suessm Posts: 33 Member
    What I discovered for me is the more carbs I eat, the more hungrier I am thoughout the day... If I stick to mostly fats and moderate proteins, I don't eat as much during the day, nor am I very hungry at any time. Starches, simple sugars, doesn't matter... Vegetables, nuts and (for me) the rare fruit, and I am always catching myself looking for something to eat 15 to half an hour later... Again, that is what I discovered for me.
  • missladyfit
    missladyfit Posts: 54 Member
    I've definitely noticed that as well! And the times that I do give in and end up on a carb binge, I am fatigued for the next few days. I avoid cheat days now because of it.
  • thurgokd01
    thurgokd01 Posts: 1 Member
    I've just started the low carb, high fat way of eating. I'm on my 6th day and am finding that I have almost no appetite and absolutely no cravings. Based on previous posts it sounds like I may be in ketosis. Can someone give me any advice on the best method (product) to use for testing my levels.
  • JPW1990
    JPW1990 Posts: 2,424 Member
    thurgokd01 wrote: »
    I've just started the low carb, high fat way of eating. I'm on my 6th day and am finding that I have almost no appetite and absolutely no cravings. Based on previous posts it sounds like I may be in ketosis. Can someone give me any advice on the best method (product) to use for testing my levels.

    There isn't one. If you're a T1 diabetic, and have a need to know your ketone level for safety reasons, you can use ketostix, but they're absolutely meaningless in terms of being in ketosis. The fact that you're not hungry and not craving is measure enough. You may also notice an acetone taste/smell to your breath, but these are only temporary things until you're fully adapted. Once you are, your body adjusts, and you will maintain ketosis for months at a time without it registering on a ketostix - it only measures one type of ketone, and only if you are producing an excess.
  • missladyfit
    missladyfit Posts: 54 Member
    Thanks guys for the awesome feedback. I think I've been low carb intermittently for so long that my body adjusts fairly quick and that's why I never get the usual symptoms. I guess for as long as I am counting calories, keto just makes it easier to stay full and not go over. Even on days I overshoot my carb limit, I am aware and can at least hit my caloric goal anyway. :smiley:

    Flashback to my gym rat days, I used to exercise intensely just to be able to work off what I ate that day, which was a moderate diet, but I was ALWAYS hungry. For those who don't believe the keto hype and think all calories are calories, just consider that it makes it easier to regulate your appetite without feeling super restrictive.
  • kuranda10
    kuranda10 Posts: 593 Member
    I am late to this conversation, but I found this ketosis calculator to be pretty good.

    http://www.flexibleketogenic.com/
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    edited May 2015
    thurgokd01 wrote: »
    I've just started the low carb, high fat way of eating. I'm on my 6th day and am finding that I have almost no appetite and absolutely no cravings. Based on previous posts it sounds like I may be in ketosis. Can someone give me any advice on the best method (product) to use for testing my levels.

    Blood test meter like Optium Exceed ( or similar ) that does glucose and ketones. Ketone strips are pricey so only test if glucose is low. You're seldom good on ketones when glucose is elevated.
  • missladyfit
    missladyfit Posts: 54 Member
    kuranda10 wrote: »
    I am late to this conversation, but I found this ketosis calculator to be pretty good.

    http://www.flexibleketogenic.com/

    Thanks! The calculator helps to actually put a number on it instead of trying to just visualize or feel keto. I also continued reading into the "spiking" article about hormesis, which sort of explains how I was losing weight the first time I did keto with cheat days once a week. I thought that cutting the cheat days would be more effective, but I may have to revisit that notion now.
  • kuranda10
    kuranda10 Posts: 593 Member
    Glad to help

    You can also use it to find your own sweet spot of macro ratios.

    I found that the scale started moving again if I stay at about 1.3-1.5. Any higher and I start to stall.
  • missladyfit
    missladyfit Posts: 54 Member
    This may be a silly question but does anyone know if the calculator uses total carbs or net carbs? I didn't see where it specifies. Thanks!
  • JPW1990
    JPW1990 Posts: 2,424 Member
    missladyfit wrote: »
    This may be a silly question but does anyone know if the calculator uses total carbs or net carbs? I didn't see where it specifies. Thanks!

    I don't know kuranda's, but this one uses net: http://keto-calculator.ankerl.com/
  • kuranda10
    kuranda10 Posts: 593 Member
    edited May 2015
    @JPW1990 , I use the one a few posts above. It doesn't tell you what macros to aim for, it tells you if you are actually in ketosis with what you've consumed.

    @missladyfit, I don't think it matters. I personally use gross, which maybe why 1.3-1.5 works for me if yuo take fiber out those ratios would be higher.
  • andysport1
    andysport1 Posts: 592 Member
    keytone strips
  • suessm
    suessm Posts: 33 Member
    andysport1 wrote: »
    keytone strips
    Ketone strips? What about them? To check if you're in ketosis? I never liked the urine strips,I go for the blood ketones... More accurate, and I'm an accurate type of guy.

    As for the number of carbs you have to stay below, it really is personal... I can't go above 20g, but then again, it depends on what type of carb... If it's leafy greens,I bounce back pretty quickly... If it's carrots, broccoli, peas...oh peas... It takes me a bit longer to go back.

    Proteins will do the same, eat enough and you will drop out of ketosis pretty quick as well, since the liver will create carbs out of proteins... We can talk more, wife needs me now...

    One parting note, remember to be in ketosis, you need to eat lots of fats... That is the only thing that creates ketones. My ratios are 80% fat, 15% protein, 5% carbs. Don't worry about the calories, I eat close to 3000kcals/day, and I lose about 5lbs/week. Oh btw, treat sucrose and seed oils for what they are...POISON!

    Later.

    Michael.
  • JPW1990
    JPW1990 Posts: 2,424 Member
    suessm wrote: »
    andysport1 wrote: »
    keytone strips
    Ketone strips? What about them? To check if you're in ketosis? I never liked the urine strips,I go for the blood ketones... More accurate, and I'm an accurate type of guy.

    As for the number of carbs you have to stay below, it really is personal... I can't go above 20g, but then again, it depends on what type of carb... If it's leafy greens,I bounce back pretty quickly... If it's carrots, broccoli, peas...oh peas... It takes me a bit longer to go back.

    Proteins will do the same, eat enough and you will drop out of ketosis pretty quick as well, since the liver will create carbs out of proteins... We can talk more, wife needs me now...

    One parting note, remember to be in ketosis, you need to eat lots of fats... That is the only thing that creates ketones. My ratios are 80% fat, 15% protein, 5% carbs. Don't worry about the calories, I eat close to 3000kcals/day, and I lose about 5lbs/week. Oh btw, treat sucrose and seed oils for what they are...POISON!

    Later.

    Michael.

    So much wrong here. No average mfp user is going to knock themself out of keto with protein. Maybe if you were doing Thrall's 10k/day with 600g of protein, but I seriously doubt there are many people here training strongman, and if there are, they already know their macros.
  • suessm
    suessm Posts: 33 Member
    edited June 2015
    Well, I'm just speaking from what I have experienced... For me, once my glycogen levels are maxed, my blood glucose levels go up and my ketones levels go down as I increase carbs beyond 20g and my protein goes around 200g. Not that I'm totally out of ketosis, just I'm not at 1.3+ mmol/dl, but more like 0.7 - 0.9mmol/dl.

    Besides, what's the goal to be in ketosis? Weight loss or medical reasons? It really doesn't matter how deep you are, as long as you're getting the benefits you're seeking.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    Ketosis by itself has no meaningful impact on weight loss. Plenty of people gain weight while in ketosis - it's really not very hard.
  • suessm
    suessm Posts: 33 Member
    Mr_Knight wrote: »
    Ketosis by itself has no meaningful impact on weight loss. Plenty of people gain weight while in ketosis - it's really not very hard.

    Really, hmmm that really surprises me, but whatever... I would think that reducing the food that affects blood glucose by increasing it, weight loss would be a good side benefit, though when I decided to try ketosis,I eliminated grains, sucrose (heck avoided all sugars,) breads, fruits... and I lost like a fiend... If you have gained weight while truly in ketosis, please let me know how... I could use that information to try to break through my temporary weight stall...

    Always learning!

    Michael.
  • auntstephie321
    auntstephie321 Posts: 3,586 Member
    edited June 2015
    suessm wrote: »
    Mr_Knight wrote: »
    Ketosis by itself has no meaningful impact on weight loss. Plenty of people gain weight while in ketosis - it's really not very hard.

    Really, hmmm that really surprises me, but whatever... I would think that reducing the food that affects blood glucose by increasing it, weight loss would be a good side benefit, though when I decided to try ketosis,I eliminated grains, sucrose (heck avoided all sugars,) breads, fruits... and I lost like a fiend... If you have gained weight while truly in ketosis, please let me know how... I could use that information to try to break through my temporary weight stall...

    Always learning!

    Michael.

    Yes you can gain weight while in ketosis if you are
    eating more calories than you burn.
  • yarwell
    yarwell Posts: 10,477 Member
    auntstephie321 wrote: »

    Yes you can gain weight while in ketosis if you aren't eating more calories than you burn.

    How does that work then ?
  • suessm
    suessm Posts: 33 Member
    edited June 2015
    auntstephie321 wrote: »
    Yes you can gain weight while in ketosis if you aren't eating more calories than you burn.

    I suppose so... It's just that when I'm in moderate ketosis, (1.4+ mmol/dl) I'm not that hungry... When I'm nearer to 2mmol/dl, I'm feeling nauseous, but that's another story... When I'm around 0.5 - 0.8mmol/dl I can eat a bunch more, but those times I find myself eating more proteins and/or carbs than what I should, which is why my ketones are so low... That's why I try for my sweet spot of 1.5mmol/dl.

    Again, if some ketonic weight gainers could let me know their experiences, I'd love to listen, love to understand their diets and how food affects them... I'm truly interested.

    Michael.
This discussion has been closed.

Categories