FORGET BMI!!
Replies
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I get that the BMI scale is a tool and that it needs to be treated as such, i.e. a guide not the end all be all. I have recently had my body fat measured and it is 40%. I agree I'm overweight, I'm working on that and it is down by a significant amount already. If I were to get down to even the high end of BMI normal that would put me at 140 lbs, doesn't sound so bad when I say I'm 5'3". Now, do a little math you can quickly see that at my current lean body weight, if I were to get to 140 lb, I would only have 1% body fat.
My concern is this...
If insurance companies begin penalizing consumers based on BMI, a good deal of the healthy folks out there are going to be in trouble. Unfortunately, this could some day extend to our livelihoods. I was reading an article in the New York Times last month that a hospital was attempting to fire, yes fire, employees who smoke even if they only smoke on their own time and have showered prior to coming to work. If you are caught smoking during your off time, you could be fired. According to the article this hospital has not received any resistance by the state government as it is a privately funded hospital (if I remember correctly). The article also stated, and I believe it was a quote from someone with the hospital, that they were also considering adding a clause that would allow them to fire, or not hire, individuals who qualify as fat. Now, who and how do they decide who qualifies as fat? Unfortunately, the vast majority of the healthcare industry still relies on BMI. We'll see what happens.0 -
I get that the BMI scale is a tool and that it needs to be treated as such, i.e. a guide not the end all be all. I have recently had my body fat measured and it is 40%. I agree I'm overweight, I'm working on that and it is down by a significant amount already. If I were to get down to even the high end of BMI normal that would put me at 140 lbs, doesn't sound so bad when I say I'm 5'3". Now, do a little math you can quickly see that at my current lean body weight, if I were to get to 140 lb, I would only have 1% body fat.
This is some seriously fuzzy math. If your current weight is in the 240's and you lose 100 pounds to become 140, you will absolutely NOT be at 1% body fat. Ain't gonna happen, no way, no how. ;-)0 -
I found that link really interesting. It backs up what I have always said - that people in the modern western world have completely lost track of what humans are supposed to look like. You don't see wild animals with rolls of fat, and we aren't meant to have them either. I anticipated almost every one of the results in that link from looking at the pictures before I read the classification.
Most of the "overweight" people (not obese) did not have "rolls of fat" though. For the most part they looked healthy.0 -
<<<<<<< this pic of me is at 175 pounds and "overweight"" according to BMI standards. According to charts I should be around 137 in the middle of the "normal" category. UMMMMM I don't think I weighed that at 13 YO! I have my goal set at 150 but would be happy to lose my baby-weight and get back to 175 and wearing a size 10.0
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I found that link really interesting. It backs up what I have always said - that people in the modern western world have completely lost track of what humans are supposed to look like. You don't see wild animals with rolls of fat, and we aren't meant to have them either. I anticipated almost every one of the results in that link from looking at the pictures before I read the classification.
Most of the "overweight" people (not obese) did not have "rolls of fat" though. For the most part they looked healthy.
That is exactly my point. We are so used to most of the people we see every day being overweight that we DO think that that is healthy.0 -
I get that the BMI scale is a tool and that it needs to be treated as such, i.e. a guide not the end all be all. I have recently had my body fat measured and it is 40%. I agree I'm overweight, I'm working on that and it is down by a significant amount already. If I were to get down to even the high end of BMI normal that would put me at 140 lbs, doesn't sound so bad when I say I'm 5'3". Now, do a little math you can quickly see that at my current lean body weight, if I were to get to 140 lb, I would only have 1% body fat.
What mathematical equation would give you 1% fat? Impossible, unless if you're six feet under.0 -
I found that link really interesting. It backs up what I have always said - that people in the modern western world have completely lost track of what humans are supposed to look like. You don't see wild animals with rolls of fat, and we aren't meant to have them either. I anticipated almost every one of the results in that link from looking at the pictures before I read the classification.
Most of the "overweight" people (not obese) did not have "rolls of fat" though. For the most part they looked healthy.
That is exactly my point. We are so used to most of the people we see every day being overweight that we DO think that that is healthy.
Well again, if that's what "healthy" is, I'd rather be slightly overweight. My blood pressure's fine, I don't have diabetes, and I don't have any other serious health issues according to my doctor. I don't have any desire to have that little fat on my body. Everybody has their personal preference and I just can't see how what's right for someone else is automatically right for me.0 -
I get that the BMI scale is a tool and that it needs to be treated as such, i.e. a guide not the end all be all. I have recently had my body fat measured and it is 40%. I agree I'm overweight, I'm working on that and it is down by a significant amount already. If I were to get down to even the high end of BMI normal that would put me at 140 lbs, doesn't sound so bad when I say I'm 5'3". Now, do a little math you can quickly see that at my current lean body weight, if I were to get to 140 lb, I would only have 1% body fat.
What mathematical equation would give you 1% fat? Impossible, unless if you're six feet under.
Ok, maybe I'm missing some piece of information but here goes...
Body weight = 250 lbs
Body fat percentage = 45% (let's calculate high for possible product inaccuracy)
250 x 0.45 = 112.5 of body fat weight
250 - 112.5 = 137.5 of lean body weight, a.k.a. bone, muscle, organs, etc.
My understanding is that if you lose weight in a healthy way by eating an appropriate amount of healthy calories and include strength training, you should not lose lean body weight. That being said...
137.5 x 0.01 = 1.375 is 1% of body fat weight
137.5 + 1.375 = 138.875 new body weight with 1% body fat and under 140.
I know 1% is not healthy or even possible, but unless I plan to lose lean body weight I don't see 140 in my future and I'm okay with that. Now, if there is something about lean body weight that I'm missing I'd really like to know as I'm constantly trying to learn new things regarding my health, fitness and weight loss journey.0 -
Ok folks I have a few work out tips that may be of help...here it goes:
Kettle Worx - love it love it love it....I have the 6 week transformation dvds. I have been doing it for two weeks now and see results. I suggest you work out at your own pace...the trainer tends to go too fast and it can be a bit rough on the knees....major squatting and working those glutes!
Zumba- now I love to dance! You will feel like you just got out of the shower on this one. The Zumba Wii is also a great investment, if you are new to dancing then this may be too much for you...but believe me I have a daughter that has no rhythm and now she is doing the Rhythm Nation Janet Jackson style..lol
Tae Bo - you can't go wrong with Billy Blanks!
Yoga- now I have learned how to breathe and relax when I do yoga. This is a skill that will take years of mastering for me...
So these are some mini tips on some work out dvds...hope it helps anyone!0 -
I get that the BMI scale is a tool and that it needs to be treated as such, i.e. a guide not the end all be all. I have recently had my body fat measured and it is 40%. I agree I'm overweight, I'm working on that and it is down by a significant amount already. If I were to get down to even the high end of BMI normal that would put me at 140 lbs, doesn't sound so bad when I say I'm 5'3". Now, do a little math you can quickly see that at my current lean body weight, if I were to get to 140 lb, I would only have 1% body fat.
What mathematical equation would give you 1% fat? Impossible, unless if you're six feet under.
Ok, maybe I'm missing some piece of information but here goes...
Body weight = 250 lbs
Body fat percentage = 45% (let's calculate high for possible product inaccuracy)
250 x 0.45 = 112.5 of body fat weight
250 - 112.5 = 137.5 of lean body weight, a.k.a. bone, muscle, organs, etc.
My understanding is that if you lose weight in a healthy way by eating an appropriate amount of healthy calories and include strength training, you should not lose lean body weight. That being said...
137.5 x 0.01 = 1.375 is 1% of body fat weight
137.5 + 1.375 = 138.875 new body weight with 1% body fat and under 140.
I know 1% is not healthy or even possible, but unless I plan to lose lean body weight I don't see 140 in my future and I'm okay with that. Now, if there is something about lean body weight that I'm missing I'd really like to know as I'm constantly trying to learn new things regarding my health, fitness and weight loss journey.
How did you get your BF tested, was it with calipers?0 -
I'm 5'2" and I think the BMI is a pretty good tool for me. I have a range of something like 101-137. To me that's a pretty wide range, I know that I will never be able to get to 102 and if I did, unlikely that I would maintain it for long. 120-125 is a good number to me.0
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I am 5'4 and fluctuate between 142-145... The chart says i'm close to being "over-weight". Do i consider myself over-weight? NO. I am just out of shape and need to tone down my midsection. Now, with that in mind, guess how much my body fat% is??? How about 40! I have always had a high fat%... i guess i'm what you'd call "skinny-fat". Even in high school, i remember getting measured in P.E. with all my class mates and i would always be the highest fat winner~ Go figure:drinker:0
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I am 5'4 and fluctuate between 142-145... The chart says i'm close to being "over-weight". Do i consider myself over-weight? NO. I am just out of shape and need to tone down my midsection. Now, with that in mind, guess how much my body fat% is??? How about 40! I have always had a high fat%... i guess i'm what you'd call "skinny-fat". Even in high school, i remember getting measured in P.E. with all my class mates and i would always be the highest fat winner~ Go figure:drinker:
I've decided to go by body fat percentage, personally. That's what I really care about, not how many pounds I weigh on a scale... Currently I'm in the Obese category of BF%, but not for long
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I am also looking to ditch the BMI 'ideal' weight. I have set my goal at still overweight as this is a goal where I'll be my slimmest in 14 years. After that I'll be aiming for 1 stone at a time and seeing how I feel and look.
Whatever I lose will be much better than my weight has been in the past, so that is all that matters to me. I don't smoke or drink and regularly exercise so if I am slightly 'overweight' I won't feel bad about it.
I am going to uni to be a nurse and have heard from nurses that it was proposed that the BMI system should be scrapped in the UK. I don't know if this will happen but it suggests that even health professionals don't entirely believe in it.0 -
At the end of the day, there's a little bit for everyone to consider.
BMI is a great tool. Great. People lie to themselves all the time, and sadly, our own eyes are not the best independent guide for judging either how overweight we are NOR how we look...ever look in the mirror everyday and think you look one way, the take a picture and find out that wasn't quite true? I was pushing hard at morbid obesity and thought I was just "a tad overweight." And BMI values aren't linked with societal norms, but with health outcomes.
HOWEVER, does everyone get to weigh the pros and cons and decide what their own goals are? YES. Jesus (just as an example) told his followers to practice non-violence and to turn that other cheek. But alas, that would be...perfection. This is real life. And I happen to value Christian police officers willing to use force and not turning that other cheek...for real. I also think community work is a good thing....but I haven't done that recently. Because I am doing OTHER FABULOUS THINGS and can't do everything.
So....after you've spent months working really hard to get yourself down to a BMI of 28 or so, and find that you are eating good food and exercising and you feel good and have no health problems (that would be improved by more weight loss) and are personally happy? Well...I certainly don't think you should put up billboards and become an anti-BMI activist, but I also think that after all your hard work, you shouldn't let me or anybody else tear down your accomplishments, your purpose, or your happiness.0 -
I am overweight based on BMI at 153-155 and 5'5". However my body fat is around 22% with a 28" waist (we have calipers, and it's consistent with my bodybugg body measurement estimate as well). I choose to go by body fat rather than BMI. 0
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I get that the BMI scale is a tool and that it needs to be treated as such, i.e. a guide not the end all be all. I have recently had my body fat measured and it is 40%. I agree I'm overweight, I'm working on that and it is down by a significant amount already. If I were to get down to even the high end of BMI normal that would put me at 140 lbs, doesn't sound so bad when I say I'm 5'3". Now, do a little math you can quickly see that at my current lean body weight, if I were to get to 140 lb, I would only have 1% body fat.
This is some seriously fuzzy math. If your current weight is in the 240's and you lose 100 pounds to become 140, you will absolutely NOT be at 1% body fat. Ain't gonna happen, no way, no how. ;-)
Agreed and the reason that is is that one doesn't just lose fat. If she loses 100 pounds she will be losing muscle along with fat and lean body mass will no longer be 140#. This strikes me as a rationalization for not attempting to get to ideal body weight.0 -
I don't disagree with the comments about BMI, but it's a tool....and only that. As a retired P.A. in internal medicine, I can tell you that I would have been THRILLED to death if all of my patients could have managed to get down into the "overweight" range for BMI. But sadly, in my adult patient population, there were too many people (women) who considered themselves "curvy" when in fact, they *were* obese. Hollywood images of emaciated young men and women are not realistic role models, the BMI isn't perfect, but denial is a powerful thing, and if seeing in print that you are morbidly obese or obese helps to create an action plan for better nutrition and exercising, I'm all for it.
Agree 100%. I"m a retired internist so we come from the same background. The normal BMI gives one a lot of lattitude with a wide range of acceptable weight so being in the upper or lower end of the range can usually account for differences in body frame etc but I do think there is a lot of denial as you mentioned with people claiming they would be a skeleton etc. Don't we all think we have "large frames" as the reason for us being overweight. It makes no sense to throw out the whole formula because it doesn't work for some world class athletes who have a ton of muscle mass. Most people on this list are not in that category and I think it is a good guideline and it makes no sense just to dismiss it out of hand. If one doesn't want to be in the normal range then so be it but I agree that there may be some aspects of denial going on here.0 -
The other issue I have is all the different BMI calculators and how different they are. There's no standard. Know why? Because people aren't standard. Definitely take it with a grain of salt.
I don't understand this statement. BMI IS calculated bya standard formula and all the calculators give you the same number.0 -
I am overweight based on BMI at 153-155 and 5'5". However my body fat is around 22% with a 28" waist (we have calipers, and it's consistent with my bodybugg body measurement estimate as well). I choose to go by body fat rather than BMI.
OMG I would KILL to be that size! That's awesome! 0 -
Here's the deal. There are as many "facts" and opinions of what the "ideal" is as there are people to make them up.
And think back some generations. What is considered healthy or beautiful seems to change like fashion.
What we do know now is this:
Being inactive, and fueling your body with crap leads to a malnourished, weak, unhealthy body that is more prone to a number of life-threatening health concerns.
Being active, and fueling your body with clean water, fresh, real food leads to a healthy, nourished body.
Too many people give up on just being active because they'll never get to what the current social norm says is "beautiful." Don't give up, find tools that work for you and - like Nike said - "Just do it."
As for me, I find curves beautiful. I find muscles covered in a layer of soft beautiful. The ultra-skinny look that seems to be Hollywood's norm, just isn't that appealing to me. But that's me. I will never try to reach that, because I don't want to. (And because all of my curves came about with puberty... including the tummy - yet I was under 105 lbs til college. Super skinny is not genetically possible without a severe eating disorder in my case.)
That said, each of us needs to own our body and make the choices that are right for ourselves. And hopefully teach our children to love fresh, healthy, real food again, instead of treating catchup like a vegetable a la school lunch.0 -
Here's the deal. There are as many "facts" and opinions of what the "ideal" is as there are people to make them up.
And think back some generations. What is considered healthy or beautiful seems to change like fashion.
What we do know now is this:
Being inactive, and fueling your body with crap leads to a malnourished, weak, unhealthy body that is more prone to a number of life-threatening health concerns.
Being active, and fueling your body with clean water, fresh, real food leads to a healthy, nourished body.
Too many people give up on just being active because they'll never get to what the current social norm says is "beautiful." Don't give up, find tools that work for you and - like Nike said - "Just do it."
As for me, I find curves beautiful. I find muscles covered in a layer of soft beautiful. The ultra-skinny look that seems to be Hollywood's norm, just isn't that appealing to me. But that's me. I will never try to reach that, because I don't want to. (And because all of my curves came about with puberty... including the tummy - yet I was under 105 lbs til college. Super skinny is not genetically possible without a severe eating disorder in my case.)
That said, each of us needs to own our body and make the choices that are right for ourselves. And hopefully teach our children to love fresh, healthy, real food again, instead of treating catchup like a vegetable a la school lunch.
Girl you just served up truth with a side of HECK YES!!! You go!! 0 -
I also think people like to trash the concept of BMI because it makes them feel bad. I understand that, but it doesn't remove the fact that you have a very wide range within your BMI that is considered ok, and it's not that unreasonable for most people. For MOST people BMI is a very good indication of healthy weight (not health full stop, but healthy weight). It only becomes inaccurate if you are body building or have a very very low body fat %, which can lead to it's own problems. Many athletes and male film stars have overweight BMIs because they have an abnormally high amount of muscle on their frames, but most of us aren't in that category.
This guy is borderline obese.
6' tall, 215lbs, 29+BMI
http://www.flickr.com/photos/77367764@N00/1478705003/in/set-72157602199008819
Additionally....I'm not bodybuilder, no weightlifter...and am certainly not overly muscular. I have a moderate exercise routiene that is designed to keep me in shape...and yet I'M borderline obese?...at 5'7", 189lbs, and 19% bodyfat, BMI 29+:
I will NEVER be out of the overweight range. At the lightest I could EVER imagine being, it would land me just above the middle of the overweight category. It's totally disproportionate...and only middle of the road people are really going to fit. I'm sorry, I refuse to be penalized based on an inaccurate health chart. The thing is pointless except for a certain range of people.
Cris0 -
Right on! Even at my lightest weight, 154 lbs, when I looked good and healthy, the BMI calculators all told me I was still overweight.0
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I do agree that BMI is a very vague measuring system. I think Body fat is a more individual specific measurement. BMI does not take into consideration tone, muscle, frame etc.
Based on the charts I would have to be 167 lbs Max weight to be a healthy BMI. My healthy body mass is 164.5 lbs. This would mean a body fat % of 1.8% which is lower than the required Body Fat needed for the body to function properly.
I am 56 years old.
I think target goals should be a healthy Body Fat %. Men 18-25 and Women 25-31
Fitness level Body Fat % Men 14-17 Women 21-240 -
For those going by BF%, I have a question;
What is the most accurate way to measure your body fat? I've been using the navy body fat calculator, which tells me I'm 42% fat... Is this reliable?0 -
I'm the opposite of what most people are posting here. I am a "normal" BMI weight and my goal weight is border line "underweight". I have a fairly straight frame for a female, not curvy and I'm tall, 5'9. Since I've gained weight most of the pounds are on legs/butt. Since I have such a little upper body I look uneven. I plan to gain muscle and tone which might effect actual body weight. Like most people said I'm going for a look not a specific weight.
BMI doesn't take into consideration the frame of your body. Obviously curvy ladies will naturally weight more than a straight bodied lady like myself with a "boy" like frame.
If anything I should make my BMI that of a 15 year old boy. It may be more accurate.0 -
Ok, maybe I'm missing some piece of information but here goes...
Body weight = 250 lbs
Body fat percentage = 45% (let's calculate high for possible product inaccuracy)
250 x 0.45 = 112.5 of body fat weight
250 - 112.5 = 137.5 of lean body weight, a.k.a. bone, muscle, organs, etc.
My understanding is that if you lose weight in a healthy way by eating an appropriate amount of healthy calories and include strength training, you should not lose lean body weight. That being said...
137.5 x 0.01 = 1.375 is 1% of body fat weight
137.5 + 1.375 = 138.875 new body weight with 1% body fat and under 140.
I know 1% is not healthy or even possible, but unless I plan to lose lean body weight I don't see 140 in my future and I'm okay with that. Now, if there is something about lean body weight that I'm missing I'd really like to know as I'm constantly trying to learn new things regarding my health, fitness and weight loss journey.
You are missing that you ARE going to loose lean muscle. That's because you will no longer be carrying the excess weight. Your body will not need the amount of muscle you currently have, and even with weight training, you will not be able to keep that much muscle mass. Think about it, 24hrs a day you carry those 112.5 lbs of body fat that you have calculated. You get up, down, walk, etc. with that extra weight. Say you lost 50 lbs of fat. Would you replace those 50lbs with say sand bags in the exact same places 24hrs a day, 7 days a week? It's just not possible.
Here's an extreme example of how BMI can fail. Male body builders sometimes shoot for 2% to 3% body fat for time of competition, which is so close to death that it can't be sustained for long. Say you were 6ft tall and were at 230lbs for competition at 3% body fat. Your BMI would be calculated at 32. Anything over 30 is obese. That body builder is NOT obese. Matter of fact he needs to fatten up.
You can also have a normal BMI and have an unhealthy amount of fat. The show "The Doctors" did a piece on "Skinny Fat" that illustrated this specific issue.
The problem with BMI and insurance companies is that the people making decisions based on BMI are usually either undereducated or ignorant to BMIs limitations. They may look at this one number and decide that the person with numbers that are off the range are uninsurable, and insure those that are actually at higher risk for problems due to body fat.
BMI is a TOOL. Like any other tool you need to realize its proper use and limitations. If it's not working or helping you to know your BMI, don't use it as a guide. Personally, even at 178, the BMI calculator says I am "overweight." I would have to get down to 168 to be at the hight end of normal, and I could go down to 126lbs and still be considered "normal." I'd have to loose some lean muscle just to get to 168, and I don't plan to be alive when I hit 126lbs again.
Use the right tool for the right job, at the right time, and for the right reason. I COULD dig a hole with a hammer, but it's more appropriate to use a shovel. However, just because I need a shovel to dig holes it doesn't mean I am throwing my hammer out.0 -
So often people trash BMI and give the example of a bodybuilder being classed as obese, but it is extremely useful for normal people. Yes, BMI can be a rather blunt tool, but as with any measure it has to be applied intelligently.
What seems to be forgotten is that BMI is purely about health, not looks. Being at peak health might not be your agenda - if it isn't, simply keep your weight at the level at which you think you look best. As for frame, once many people lose a lot of weight they find they didn't have a big frame at all. They were just fat and in denial.
Personally, at 4' 10" my healthy range is rated at between 89 and 119lb - my target weight is currently set at 119, which is the top end of normal. That will be a good starting point to my new healthier life. I know that at 89lb I look positively emaciated, but I do fully acknowledge that my reason for not aiming for something like 100lb is purely that at that weight I would look less attractive and frankly getting there in the foreseeable future would be a struggle I'm not sure I'm capable of dealing with.
BUT I'm not going to lie to myself and try and convince myself that what looks "normal" is what's healthiest for me. As a society, overweight has become normalised to us, it's only when travelling to other parts of the world that it becomes apparent that what we consider normal is not normal at all.0 -
I found that link really interesting. It backs up what I have always said - that people in the modern western world have completely lost track of what humans are supposed to look like. You don't see wild animals with rolls of fat, and we aren't meant to have them either. I anticipated almost every one of the results in that link from looking at the pictures before I read the classification.
I wouldn't include the whole western world. There are a lot of Europeans who are slim and look great.
On that note, I think that if folks traveled abroad a bit to countries where people were actually within the BMI, they might change their understanding and see that we, Americans, are for the most part overweight, and the BMI is pretty accurate at telling us the truth even though we think, "No way!"0
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