Ladies who lift on a deficit, how do you keep progressing?

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subversive99
subversive99 Posts: 273 Member
edited May 2015 in Fitness and Exercise
Hey, asking for my wife. We're doing the SL 5x5 program. The problem is, she is finding it a little frustrating to be stuck at the same weights, then deloading, then up to the same weight, then deload, etc etc. She's gotten to the following max weights before failure, and is pretty much stalled with all of them after multiple deloads. Started program in January.

Deadlift 1x5: 140lb
Bench 5x5: 70lb
Squat 5x5: 135lb
Row 5x5: 80lb
OH Press 5x5: 55lb

She's eating at a deficit for 1lb a week, so obviously this will impact her ability to continue to improve lifts. Anyway, wondering if the experienced female (or otherwise) lifters can offer advice on how to keep progressing at lifts while maintaining weight loss. Or is it a losing game and all you can do is try to just maintain your max lifts until you get to a weight where you are comfortable bulking a little bit?

Replies

  • vorgas
    vorgas Posts: 741 Member
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    Lifting is a neuromuscular activity. Your brain has to coordinate a lot of muscles at the same time.
    If she has to deload on a lift, focus on technique.
    Go all the way back to the bar.
    Watch how-to videos, such as Elite FS 'So you think you can [bench/squat/deadlift/etc]
    Video the lift.
    Compare to the how-to.
    Adjust.

    Add 1 supplemental lift at the end of the SL routine, such as push-press for the ohp.

    Go down to 4x4, then 3x3, if necessary.
  • Keladelphia
    Keladelphia Posts: 820 Member
    edited May 2015
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    I certainly am no "experienced" lifter (only been lifting 4 times a week for a bit over a year) and I can't say I've experienced exactly the same thing but i'll share my experience anyway. When I started out I had similar lifting numbers to where your wife is at now. I ate at a deficit to lose 1.5 pounds a week most of the past year (60 pounds lost during that timeframe) and for the first six months didn't really stall at all. When I noticed my gains started to slow I really tightened up on my macros (40%P, 30%C, 30%F) and focused much more on meal timing consuming majority of my carbs before workouts and protein following my workouts. While I certainly don't know if there is any science behind this I can tell you that it really helped me personally; eating at the same deficit my numbers increased dramatically in that short span of time (267#DL, 92#OHP, 215#Squat). Might be worth a shot if multiple deloads don't appear to be working.

    Edited to add I do a lot of supplemental lifts and bodyweight exercises which could have also contributed.
  • Sweet_Heresy
    Sweet_Heresy Posts: 411 Member
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    Maybe knock it down to 3x5?

    My progress lately has been very slow, even with a mild (-500cal) deficit after 3 months.

    Fractional plates for the upper body lifts might also help, cause trying to add +5lbs to bench/OHP every time just isn't gonna happen.

    I got to 135 on my DL and had to switch to a mixed grip to progress further. She could try that if she hasn't already.
  • ew_david
    ew_david Posts: 3,473 Member
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    How much is she trying to lose? How is her protein intake?

    If she started in January and has already had multiple deloads, something is not right.
  • colors_fade
    colors_fade Posts: 464 Member
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    You're going to stall. It's okay. No one can indefinitely keep making gains, ESPECIALLY on a cut. Eventually you reach the limitations of your physical self.

    I think the above poster is onto something, however, with supplemental lifts. I'd start adding a few isolation exercises (assisted pull-ups, assisted dips, some dumbell flys/press, etc.). Stronglifts is a great start for anyone, but it's not a complete program. Adding some training (like dips for chest engagement) will help the other lifts improve.

    Mostly, just remember: you're cutting. Your goal here isn't to add muscle, but to preserve it. If you're weight isn't decreasing and you're losing fat, you're winning.
  • subversive99
    subversive99 Posts: 273 Member
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    _dracarys_ wrote: »
    If she started in January and has already had multiple deloads, something is not right.

    The issue with the deloads is on OH press, she really has almost no room to progress from just the bar. She does 45, then 50, then 55, then fails at 57 (we have some one pound ankle weights that are posing as fractional plates currently), fails at 57 a couple more times, then deloads per the SL app to 45 and starts again.

  • 3bambi3
    3bambi3 Posts: 1,650 Member
    edited May 2015
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    subversive99 wrote: »
    _dracarys_ wrote: »
    If she started in January and has already had multiple deloads, something is not right.

    The issue with the deloads is on OH press, she really has almost no room to progress from just the bar. She does 45, then 50, then 55, then fails at 57 (we have some one pound ankle weights that are posing as fractional plates currently), fails at 57 a couple more times, then deloads per the SL app to 45 and starts again.

    Maybe get some incremental plates instead of using the ankle weights? I had a hard time progressing with 5lbs every time, so I bought some 1.25lb plates and just went up 2.5lbs each time. It was more manageable. Slower progress, but better than having to constantly deload. That, and if I failed a lift I didn't deload, I went back and added a few reps of my last successful weight for a few sessions and that worked for me.

    Best of luck to her, that sounds very frustrating.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
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    subversive99 wrote: »
    Hey, asking for my wife. We're doing the SL 5x5 program. The problem is, she is finding it a little frustrating to be stuck at the same weights, then deloading, then up to the same weight, then deload, etc etc. She's gotten to the following max weights before failure, and is pretty much stalled with all of them after multiple deloads. Started program in January.

    Deadlift 1x5: 140lb
    Bench 5x5: 70lb
    Squat 5x5: 135lb
    Row 5x5: 80lb
    OH Press 5x5: 55lb

    She's eating at a deficit for 1lb a week, so obviously this will impact her ability to continue to improve lifts. Anyway, wondering if the experienced female (or otherwise) lifters can offer advice on how to keep progressing at lifts while maintaining weight loss. Or is it a losing game and all you can do is try to just maintain your max lifts until you get to a weight where you are comfortable bulking a little bit?

    This is one of the big problems I see with doing a 5x5 program while dieting...it's a lot of volume with heavy weight with a deficiency of energy.

    I started with Starting Strength which is a 3x5 program and so did my wife...even then, I found it difficult to keep progressing with the program in a calorie deficit. My wife moved away from that program first and did New Rules of Lifting for Women which is more of a general fitness lifting program vs a pure strength building program...

    She did a lot better with that simply because the goals are different...shortly after she moved to that program, I started Wednler's 5/3/1 which was a great program but again...while it can be done on a deficit, the goals involved really require at minimum, maintenance to really effectively hit those goals. I started New Rules Supercharged after that which is also more of a general purpose lifting program...and like wife, this was actually a more productive workout while eating in a deficit.

    I didn't get back into a heavy program until I went to maintenance and then my lifts went through the roof...then I did a bulk and really blew up my lifts. My programming now is provided by my coach and I and my wife both work in a variety of rep range cycles...at this point we're really focused on general fitness and maintenance rather than trying to build strength or hypertrophy.

    SL and other programs like it are great...but I think a lot of people do them because they get mentioned a lot here, but other than that, they don't really know why they're doing them or if a particular programming is going to help them hit their goals.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
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    I started lifting last July. After about 6-7 months, I was at a point where I really couldn't have much progress at a 500 calorie per day deficit. I had to switch to either 250 or 500 only on non-lifting days. And even then a 5x5 program didn't really work for me. I'm maintaining now but if I switch back to trying to lose again, I'll probably only do it for 2-3 weeks and then go back to maintaining for awhile because maintaining/progressing strength-wise is my bigger priority.
  • SonicKrunch
    SonicKrunch Posts: 192 Member
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    First you need to understand the difference between a normal deficit and a fattier person deficit. If she's already fit, but wants to lose 5 pounds then yes she may see strength losses during exercise due to her actual caloric deficit. If she's got a bunch of weight to lose, fat doesn't just disappear it's burned to essentially pick up your caloric intake to it's normal levels so essentially you aren't at a caloric deficit. Now that is all turned into sugars so what's important when eating on a caloric deficit is ensuring you get enough protein. Protein is what will maintain and build her muscles. If she's eating less than 80-100g today, she needs to get to that point now.

    Second, Stronglifts 5x5 is a great program but includes almost no accessory work in the app without purchasing them. I highly suggest adding more exercises that compliment the compounds. Pullups, Dips, Close-grip Bench, shrugs, hyperextensions, crunches(or planks). I'd also not worry about deloading as often as the app says, get those accessory lifts in and it will come.

    Third. OHP also is one exercise where 5 pound increments are going to be very hard to sustain. It's also one of my weak lifts while others are much higher. If your gym doesn't have 1.25lb plates, ask if they might get them or bring them in yourself.
  • Kate5283kate
    Kate5283kate Posts: 87 Member
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    I started lifting heavy in December, and I am stuck pretty much exactly where your wife is on the lifts. I am at about 1000 calories a day deficit. My doctor pretty much said: choose. Performance, or faster weight loss. So, I do the best I can, lift three times a week, and am very pleased to have lost little lean body mass. As I lose fat, I look and feel better, which is really my goal in any case. Also, I am back at exactly my pre pregnancy weight... but I am two sizes smaller. I saved some of my prepregnancy clothes and I swim in them - clearly lifting is doing something, even if my lifts aren't getting better at the moment.
  • SonicKrunch
    SonicKrunch Posts: 192 Member
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    And sorry one more thing. A lot of people don't realize that their tendons and ligaments don't strengthen at the same rate as their muscles. You may get stalled as they adjust to the new pressures to perform. Once they dial themselves in, boom, huge explosion in strength. When I started I stalled in squats @ 175 pounds. Then all of a sudden I was up to 240 without any real change. Some of that is from the accessory work, but some is from my ligaments finally getting stronger.
  • sengalissa
    sengalissa Posts: 253 Member
    edited May 2015
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    subversive99 wrote: »
    Hey, asking for my wife. We're doing the SL 5x5 program. The problem is, she is finding it a little frustrating to be stuck at the same weights, then deloading, then up to the same weight, then deload, etc etc. She's gotten to the following max weights before failure, and is pretty much stalled with all of them after multiple deloads. Started program in January.

    Deadlift 1x5: 140lb
    Bench 5x5: 70lb
    Squat 5x5: 135lb
    Row 5x5: 80lb
    OH Press 5x5: 55lb

    She's eating at a deficit for 1lb a week, so obviously this will impact her ability to continue to improve lifts. Anyway, wondering if the experienced female (or otherwise) lifters can offer advice on how to keep progressing at lifts while maintaining weight loss. Or is it a losing game and all you can do is try to just maintain your max lifts until you get to a weight where you are comfortable bulking a little bit?

    My lifts a very similar and I am eating on a deficit but I do a 14 day period of surplus here and there... (Which translates to falling off the waggon and declaring it a dirty bulk :)) So yes, I am still progressing but very slowly. Only when I look in my charts from a month ago I see progress but not week to week.
  • subversive99
    subversive99 Posts: 273 Member
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    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    This is one of the big problems I see with doing a 5x5 program while dieting...it's a lot of volume with heavy weight with a deficiency of energy.

    I started with Starting Strength which is a 3x5 program and so did my wife...even then, I found it difficult to keep progressing with the program in a calorie deficit. My wife moved away from that program first and did New Rules of Lifting for Women which is more of a general fitness lifting program vs a pure strength building program...

    She did a lot better with that simply because the goals are different...shortly after she moved to that program, I started Wednler's 5/3/1 which was a great program but again...while it can be done on a deficit, the goals involved really require at minimum, maintenance to really effectively hit those goals. I started New Rules Supercharged after that which is also more of a general purpose lifting program...and like wife, this was actually a more productive workout while eating in a deficit.

    I didn't get back into a heavy program until I went to maintenance and then my lifts went through the roof...then I did a bulk and really blew up my lifts. My programming now is provided by my coach and I and my wife both work in a variety of rep range cycles...at this point we're really focused on general fitness and maintenance rather than trying to build strength or hypertrophy.

    SL and other programs like it are great...but I think a lot of people do them because they get mentioned a lot here, but other than that, they don't really know why they're doing them or if a particular programming is going to help them hit their goals.

    Great response, thanks. As is typical, we're both trying to lose weight and retain lean mass in the process, not super specific goals beyond that. I'll show her the responses here, lots of good things for her to chew on.

  • subversive99
    subversive99 Posts: 273 Member
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    Thanks to all who responded, btw. Appreciated.

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