Calories Dilemma

rowenaaitken · May 2015

Hi there,

I've hit a plateau. Currently i'm eating around my BMR which is 1650cal (calories just to stay alive). I know from online calculators I should be eating more but i've got "the fear" that doing so will put on fat again. I'm 5ft 4 and 198.2lb (Highest weight 222lb)

I am aware muscle weighs more than fat so yes I should be going by measurements too!

I'm running 3x a week (changing from doing 2 x 5ks to 2 x 3ks and 1 5k a week.)

So in a nutshell should I:

Be upping my calories, and if so, by how much?
What online calculators do you find work best for you?
Should I be eating back my exercise calories?

Goals are: be a healthy weight for my height and be able to run my whole run with all the awesome side effects of feeling better, looking great, yada yada yada.

malibu927 · May 2015

First off, before any of that, how are you determining you're eating 1650 (which sounds like it's about right). And how long has it been since you've lost weight?

rowenaaitken · May 2015

Using the http://www.fat2fittools.com/tools/bmr/ here are my figures.

The question is which should I say is my activity level? Light or moderately active?

rowenaaitken · May 2015

malibu927 wrote: »

First off, before any of that, how are you determining you're eating 1650 (which sounds like it's about right). And how long has it been since you've lost weight?

I'm using MFP

Honestly weight has stuck between 202-198 for months (not helped my sprained ankle recovery

)

One thing I was doing that i've cut down on was beer. Delicious, delicious beer! Only allowing myself the recommended units on one day a week if that.

Francl27 · May 2015

Do you weigh your food?

I ate 1650-1700 and lost 80 pounds, but I was more active than you are, and I weigh everything. I'm 5'5" and 37 (was 34 when I started).

So I'd definitely not eat more, if anything I'd cut calories by 200...

Dgydad · May 2015

I'd say at your 5 day a week schedule, you'd be either moderate or very active, depending on the pace at which you run. On a 3X/week schedule, I think moderate would be the best fit - unless you run like me; I a hopeless plodder!

rowenaaitken · May 2015

@francl27 what was your exercise regime?

rowenaaitken · May 2015

@malibu927 sorry I didn't tag you there! I'm using MFP

Honestly weight has stuck between 202-198 for months (not helped my sprained ankle recovery

)

One thing I was doing that i've cut down on was beer. Delicious, delicious beer! Only allowing myself the recommended units on one day a week if that.

dennshah01 · May 2015

Running places a lot of stress on the body, and for the distances that you are currently running, you are not feeding your body enough. Sounds like your body is just trying to hold on while trying to repair your injuries. You can try making your way to the sedentary level for now and see how it goes. A good place may be between sedentary and lightly active? Try increasing your calories by 100 at a time and see what happens at 1750 cals for a week or two. If you are staying at the same weight or lose a little, then try another 100 and so on. That happened to me and I am your same height and was roughly your weight. I was exercising 3-4 times a week with hard cardio and interval cross-fit like training, and I ended eating 1840 most days, but other days I was eating 2000-2200 cals in order to not feel worn out. I was still losing 1-2 lbs a week at those calorie ranges. Good luck in figuring it out, and I hope you have speedy recovery!

rowenaaitken · May 2015

@dennshah01 that's really helpful, thank you! will try that and see what happens! I'm going to be upping my exercise anyway, hasn't been easy since the sprain about 5 weeks ago. Ran my first 5k race yesterday (with hills which i'm not used to) so got my feet up today doing some research.

malibu927 · May 2015

rowenaaitken wrote: »

@malibu927 sorry I didn't tag you there! I'm using MFP Honestly weight has stuck between 202-198 for months (not helped my sprained ankle recovery )

One thing I was doing that i've cut down on was beer. Delicious, delicious beer! Only allowing myself the recommended units on one day a week if that.

But how do you know you're eating that much? Are you using a food scale/measuring cups/guesstimating? It's very easy to be eating more than you think otherwise.

(It's okay, I was at work so I couldn't reply until now...either way, quoting or tagging, will work!)

mumblemagic · May 2015

dennshah01 wrote: »

Running places a lot of stress on the body, and for the distances that you are currently running, you are not feeding your body enough. Sounds like your body is just trying to hold on while trying to repair your injuries. You can try making your way to the sedentary level for now and see how it goes. A good place may be between sedentary and lightly active? Try increasing your calories by 100 at a time and see what happens at 1750 cals for a week or two. If you are staying at the same weight or lose a little, then try another 100 and so on. That happened to me and I am your same height and was roughly your weight. I was exercising 3-4 times a week with hard cardio and interval cross-fit like training, and I ended eating 1840 most days, but other days I was eating 2000-2200 cals in order to not feel worn out. I was still losing 1-2 lbs a week at those calorie ranges. Good luck in figuring it out, and I hope you have speedy recovery!

@dennshah01 This is not correct, sorry. Your body doesn't hold on to fat when it's not getting enough food. That's not to say that eating more to fuel your body when you do intense exercise is bad, you just still lose weight regardless of how much repairing you body needs to do if you are in calorie deficit.

@rowenaaitken I would guess that some calories are sneaking in behind your back. They are tricksy like that, especially if you measure using spoons and cups rather than grams and mls. Also, don't forget to log your drinks.

When I was 190 lbs my 0.5 lbs per week calorie goal was 1650 plus exercise calories, so at 198 you should be losing with the 1650 goal.

LKArgh · May 2015

rowenaaitken wrote: »

Hi there,

I've hit a plateau. Currently i'm eating around my BMR which is 1650cal (calories just to stay alive). I know from online calculators I should be eating more but i've got "the fear" that doing so will put on fat again. I'm 5ft 4 and 198.2lb (Highest weight 222lb)

I am aware muscle weighs more than fat so yes I should be going by measurements too!

I'm running 3x a week (changing from doing 2 x 5ks to 2 x 3ks and 1 5k a week.)

So in a nutshell should I:
Be upping my calories, and if so, by how much?

What online calculators do you find work best for you?

Should I be eating back my exercise calories?

Goals are: be a healthy weight for my height and be able to run my whole run with all the awesome side effects of feeling better, looking great, yada yada yada.

I am more active than you in general. I consider myself lightly active to sedentary. If you are eating any exercise calories back, then you should set yourself as sedentary.
If you are not losing from months now, your calculations are off. There is no way you are eating 1650 calories and maintaining at 198 lbs. You are more likely eating at least 300-500 calories more than you think. Start measuring everything with a scale, and make sure you forget nothing, not even a bit of sauce. and make sure you are using valid entties from the daabase, not random entries from users with no confirmations, there are some entries that are ridiculously off.

Francl27 · May 2015

rowenaaitken wrote: »

@francl27 what was your exercise regime?

Walking 3 miles every day, sometimes 6 miles, plus random 30 minutes workouts at home 3x a week. Otherwise, sitting a lot but also doing normal household stuff (cleaning, laundry, shopping etc).

Honestly I found that running just doesn't burn as many calories as I thought

basically 100 calories per mile for me (granted, I didn't run super fast, and I had lost my weight by then).

dennshah01 · May 2015

@mumblemagic: You are assuming that the amount of energy a body burns through is unaffected by what they eat. This is not something that I grabbed out of thin air. Two different experienced and amazing trainers explained to me that if you eat too little, your body will reduce it's base metabolic rate to compensate for the low calorie intake. Basically, your metabolism slows down. With the amount of exercise I was performing in a week, they recommended between 1700-1900 depending on how I felt. Some days I felt like eating less, others I would go above 1900. I tested it. If I ate too little, I lost little to no weight. If I ate a little more, I would lose at the normal 1-2 lbs rate.

Age makes a big difference too. When I was under 30, I dropped weight way easier than I do now. As you can see in the above BMR calculation, Sedentary is 1964 calories, which is less than the 1650. Your body may lose weight in the beginning, but eventually it will break down and stop. I am not only speaking from experience, but have seen it with others as well.

rowenaaitken · May 2015

For the benefit of everyone I weigh using a digital scale. No cups or other weights. The only regular measuring spoon is a tablespoon portion. Perhaps, yes, I have been missing the odd thing - i'm only human.

The only drinks I have are filter coffee with a splash of skimmed milk - no sugar or sweeteners, water, herb or fruit teas and occasionally squash and then it's the sugar free kind.

About my job: i'm a freelance illustrator who works from home so my commute is to the bedroom next to mine. I've lowered any alcohol intake to once a week, if that, to the recommended units for a woman in the uk.

Everything gets logged.

All I know is that something isn't right and only a fool carries on the same course of action and expects different results so i'm willing to try to find out what works for me.

I've upped my calorie intake by 100 as of today and I will see how things progress for the next two weeks.

I have lost a lot of weight years ago without the help of calorie counting but at the time I paid only £65 a year! for unltd use of the uni swimming pool so I went 5 days a week.

Regarding running I track my calories using a Polar heart rate monitor as I found that using GPS on my phone was WAY off. That's all set up correctly.

wmeyerbill455 · May 2015

Let your physician determine what a healthy weight is for your size and frame. I am 5' 11". The charts say my healthy weight is 179, my physician says my with my frame and muscle development 190 is better. I am now running between 205 and 210. To lose weight it is simple but requires dedication as I have done this before. Create a calorie deficit below your maintenance level and the weight drops. The simple problem is when you hit a plateau is your not, NOT, I say that in caps for emphasis, watching you calories enough or the values you are giving the foods you eat are inaccurate. I have found with the counters MFP included that the cal Val's are are about 10% off. In my case I was eating too much, so I adjusted my daily calorie intake down by that amount and additionally increased my exercise to be sure I was covering the gap. The weight started to drop. It was that simple. The hard part is the dedication. Depending on your metabolism will determine how quickly your body can put weight on when the deficit you are trying to create becomes a surplus. My metabolism has slowed, so I have to exercise every day for at least 30 minutes. I just need to do some HIT training for 30 minutes a day to maintain or lose weight coupled with calorie control. Create a deficit to lose eat at maintenance to stay level.

rowenaaitken · May 2015

@wmeyerbill455 can we talk in terms of actual figures here?

So my BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) is 1672cal/day - that's what I need to survive. I have a desk job however I aim to run 3x a week which at the moment hasn't been as frequent as that due to an ankle sprain. That's improving - did a charity 5k on different terrain yesterday!)

I've attached an image, from earlier, where I put my details into a BMR calculator with my target weight at 190lb. Once I get close to or at 190lb i'll reassess my calories.

If I go for the lightly active option at 2251cal will I lose weight on this?

I know that to burn 1lb of fat you need to eat 3500cal less, it's knowing the starting numbers which is tricky with a lot of conflicting information on here and online.

Re: calories on MFP I double check with packaging where possible

socalkay · May 2015

Try not eating back your exercise calories and cut calories a bit, perhaps 100 - 200 cal/day lower for a few weeks. See if you start losing again. If not, cut another 100/day and try that for a few weeks. That was the easiest way for me to find where I needed to set my calories to continue to lose.

rowenaaitken · May 2015

What gets me is that there is no definitive answer on this! It seems to be all conjecture and guesstimates. I want actual figures, where can I get actual facts and figure?

lemurcat12 · May 2015

rowenaaitken wrote: »

@wmeyerbill455 can we talk in terms of actual figures here?

So my BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) is 1672cal/day - that's what I need to survive. I have a desk job however I aim to run 3x a week which at the moment hasn't been as frequent as that due to an ankle sprain. That's improving - did a charity 5k on different terrain yesterday!)

I've attached an image, from earlier, where I put my details into a BMR calculator with my target weight at 190lb. Once I get close to or at 190lb i'll reassess my calories.

If I go for the lightly active option at 2251cal will I lose weight on this?

I know that to burn 1lb of fat you need to eat 3500cal less, it's knowing the starting numbers which is tricky with a lot of conflicting information on here and online.

Re: calories on MFP I double check with packaging where possible

I see a couple of possible issues with the numbers. The way the Fat2Fit plan works is that you eat at maintenance for your goal weight. If you are putting your goal weight in at only a few pounds less than your current weight, it's giving you maintenance calories. Eating maintenance calories for a lightly active person at 190 probably won't result in any weight loss if you are in fact a lightly active person at 198.

The other problem is that the Harris-Benedict formula overstates BMR if your body fat is higher than average (as for most people who want to lose a decent amount of weight). I'm 5'3, and I know at 190 I got a much higher BMR from the calculators that didn't take body fat into account than I would get with an estimate of my actual body fat in the Katch McArdle calculation. So there's a risk those numbers are too high even for maintenance.

Generally speaking the most accurate method to figure your TDEE is to use your actual numbers if you have been logging accurately.

rowenaaitken · May 2015

Thanks @lemurcat12 that's probably the best answer so far. What gets me is that when I listened to the fat2fit podcasts (which is how I learned of this calc) it gave a weight drop not dissimilar to this one.

I do have scales that weight body fat % but then with these being consumer grade how accurate are they? This is driving me nuts not knowing how much I should be eating. I am self employed so this means I can't really slack off if I have low energy levels (which I find when I drop my calories).

I know it shouldn't be hard, I lost a lot of weight at uni without mfp which is what makes it frustrating.

It's probably a simplistic thing to ask but I want to be told definitively DO THIS, FOR THESE REASONS, HERE'S THE EVIDENCE.

lemurcat12 · May 2015

It's really a matter of just picking a number and adjusting it if it's not working.

You said you are stalled, but also have not been able to exercise as much as you'd normally do because of the ankle, so you might want to keep the calories where they are and focus on upping exercise.

rowenaaitken · May 2015

Ok, thanks @lemurcat12 . It's just really frustrating

Got a guesstimate bf% on my scales (I normally do these checks first thing) so it worked out:

my actual bmr is 1411cal, lean body mass is 109lb

I put my target weight at 145lb and this is what it came out as

Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) 1730cal
Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk) 1983cal

So how would you interpret these figures?

Francl27 · May 2015

I use http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/. Running 3x a week puts you at lightly active... 1800 calories. But if you haven't been losing at 1650 and are weighing everything, you need to eat less, not more... especially if you're sitting all day when you're not exercising, because unless you're running really fast, running 8 miles a week doesn't burn much more than 1000 calories, even at your weight.

Scales are typically inaccurate to calculate body fat, BMR and all that good stuff.

Also, I got to ask - how long have you been at that plateau for? It's very common not to lose for a couple weeks at a time, weight loss isn't linear... If your period is due soon too that could explain it.

Unknown · May 2015

This content has been removed.

Dnarules · May 2015

rowenaaitken wrote: »

Ok, thanks @lemurcat12 . It's just really frustrating Got a guesstimate bf% on my scales (I normally do these checks first thing) so it worked out:

my actual bmr is 1411cal, lean body mass is 109lb

I put my target weight at 145lb and this is what it came out as

Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) 1730cal
Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk) 1983cal

So how would you interpret these figures?

If you are trying to lose 1 lb per week, and going with lightly active, than you would subtract 500 calories, which would put you at 1483, or close to 1500 per day. If you start to exercise more, this will increase somewhat.

But since you have had an injury and are now starting to run again, I would follow Lemurcat's advice and stay where you are and re-assess in a few weeks.

Unfortunately there are no hard and fast answers. These calculators are estimates, and require trial and error.

rowenaaitken · May 2015

@Francl27 actually according to my hrm I burn between 350-550cal on a 5k depending on the walk/run ratio but yes I could do with upping it plus getting some weights work back in there.

Luckily I don't get periods due to my contraception method so it's mostly likely the ankle trouble. Will stick at 1670cal this week and then cut to 1500cal next week. Might do a few IF days inbetween to decrease my appetite too!

Thanks everyone for the comments.

wmeyerbill455 · June 2015

wmeyerbill455 wrote: »

Let your physician determine what a healthy weight is for your size and frame. I am 5' 11". The charts say my healthy weight is 179, my physician says my with my frame and muscle development 190 is better. I am now running between 205 and 210. To lose weight it is simple but requires dedication as I have done this before. Create a calorie deficit below your maintenance level and the weight drops. The simple problem is when you hit a plateau is your not, NOT, I say that in caps for emphasis, watching you calories enough or the values you are giving the foods you eat are inaccurate. I have found with the counters MFP included that the cal Val's are are about 10% off. In my case I was eating too much, so I adjusted my daily calorie intake down by that amount and additionally increased my exercise to be sure I was covering the gap. The weight started to drop. It was that simple. The hard part is the dedication. Depending on your metabolism will determine how quickly your body can put weight on when the deficit you are trying to create becomes a surplus. My metabolism has slowed, so I have to exercise every day for at least 30 minutes. I just need to do some HIT training for 30 minutes a day to maintain or lose weight coupled with calorie control. Create a deficit to lose eat at maintenance to stay level.

wmeyerbill455 · June 2015

When you say 1672cal to survive you do mean this is you maintenance weight daily cal intake correct? As daily Cals to survive is an entirely different "animal" and depends on size, weight, health gender etc. I will assume the former. As several others have mentioned there are no "hard" numbers, unless you have the time and money to engage a kinesiologist. Then you could get some pretty darn close numbers. Anyway, what you have is all the research that kinesiologists a have done and suggestions from peers (us). The rest is your own trial and error.

If 1672 is you daily maintenance intake and you aren't gaining when following that level of intake, you eat 500 cals less per day ( as someone already stated above) and you should lose 1 lb per week.

The only other suggestion I can offer is to change up your exercise routine. The body (this came from an MFP article I read) burns more cals when the muscles have to repair themselves. The muscles have a significant repair job after a heavy workout or when new parts of the body not frequently exercised get exercised. Supposedly Cross Training was developed to take advantage of this. The training is 20mins cardio and 20 Strength varying the intensity of effort which raises the heart rate from a moderate rate to 75% max at certain predetermined intervals. The whole workout takes 40 minutes and is done 3 x a week. On the in between days you try to get some light walking say 30 mins done. Since you work at home, take a short walk after lunch and another after dinner.

After three weeks of the Cross Training routine the exercises change so you target other parts of your muscles and you go again for another 3 weeks. This keeps going changing the exercises every three weeks so your muscles never develope "muscle memory" which can reduce the amount of calorie burn.

So, for what it's worth you might want to give cross training a try. There is research from NorthWestern to support it if that makes you feel any better. Good Luck . You will get there.

rowenaaitken · June 2015

@wmeyerbill455 thanks for that info! Apologies if I seemed a bit snappy, was feeling pretty frustrated with myself.

Calories Dilemma

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