Can you gain muscle when doing cardio and not eating a surplus?

babystepsforward
babystepsforward Posts: 52 Member
edited November 19 in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
I eat healthily as i can and follow a low carb, higher protein diet. eat alot of salds, porridge, scrambled eggs, chicken etc but i normally net quite alot under the 2000 calories. I also do alot of cardio like running or bike riding and walking etc. Can i still gain muscle or do you have to eat over 2000 calories? i am so worried i am going to get fat. I am alread conscious that my belly sticks out ( im 5 foot 4 and weigh 119 pounds after gaining two stones from loosing it due to my eating disorder. im just really confused about how this all works. also i dont really have an apetite and have to force myself to eat meals sometimes

Replies

  • LivingtheLeanDream
    LivingtheLeanDream Posts: 13,342 Member
    Technically to gain muscle you must eat at surplus but sure you can still gain some muscle eating at deficit. I'm hoping the knowledgeable ones will step in soon to explain more about muscle :smiley:
    For me personally I have great muscle tone from running daily (except Suns) and strength training 3 days a week, I eat at maintenance cals mostly (2100)
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    Why are you eating 'quite a lot under 2000 cals'? Isn't 2000 around maintenance?
  • madhatter2013
    madhatter2013 Posts: 1,547 Member
    no
  • bhawk102
    bhawk102 Posts: 36 Member
    You should lift weights, you also can get cardio from that
  • AliceDark
    AliceDark Posts: 3,886 Member
    For the most part, you need to be in a surplus to gain muscle. There are exceptions, including newbie lifters, but generally you need to be eating at a surplus to gain muscle.

    The issue with you is that your diary shows that you are eating under 1200 calories most days. You're not going to gain anything at all at that intake, and I'd be surprised if you didn't lose weight. If you're in recovery, that's really dangerous. You need to go see your treatment team, because you need more guidance than we're going to be able to give you.
  • Emilia777
    Emilia777 Posts: 978 Member
    OP, if your goal is to gain weight and get stronger, I’d highly recommend you (1) eat more (pizza, nut butters, avocado, cheese, chocolate +1 for extra calories) and (2) lift heavy weights.

    The calories your body uses every day are way over 1200, and you won’t gain weight unless you eat more than you burn. Check out these two calculators to figure out your daily energy expenditure (IIFMY, Scooby’s).

    In regard of exercise, weigh lifting helps you get stronger and gain muscle, if you’re eating in a caloric surplus or at least at maintenance. Good lifting programs are Starting Strength, Stronglifts, Strong Curves - look into these.
  • ciremg01
    ciremg01 Posts: 1 Member
    What goal are you trying to achieve? Diet and exercise look different depending on that goal. Cardio is for burning calories and building stamina (think heart and lung health), not gaining muscle. If you're trying to maintain your weight with your current cardio levels, then your diet should be balanced around that, and that doesn't necessarily mean high protein. If you wish to gain muscle, then you need to do resistance/strength workouts and your diet will need more protein than normal. Either way, the calories you consume should be sufficient for your body type and fitness levels and goals. I recommend you try the MyFitnessPal goal wizard to get an idea of the number and types of calories you should be consuming.
  • babystepsforward
    babystepsforward Posts: 52 Member
    thanks alot guys, im just so confused. im also terrified of eating more because im not hungry and already feel fat so am worried i dont lift enough to get muscle and will just balloon.
  • Morgaath
    Morgaath Posts: 679 Member
    Answer seems to be no. Mainly, cardio doesn't do a good job of adding on muscle, unless you are doing something really intense like pedaling a bike up mountains...which is more hard physical muscle based work than plain cardio.

    Now, if you are lifting heavy (by which we mean you are straining to finish off your last rep, doesn't matter if it is 20lbs or 200lbs, and keeping those reps under 15 at most, 3-6 is about best for pure strength gains, 6-15 if you are looking for bulk), and newish to lifting like this (Under 1yr)...then it is possible to eat at a deficit, and add muscle while losing fat.
    At the bottom is links to studies: http://muscleevo.net/lose-fat-gain-muscle/
    and then this one:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    babystepsforward wrote: »
    thanks alot guys, im just so confused. im also terrified of eating more because im not hungry and already feel fat so am worried i dont lift enough to get muscle and will just balloon.

    You need to speak to your recovery team
  • FitForL1fe
    FitForL1fe Posts: 1,872 Member
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    babystepsforward wrote: »
    thanks alot guys, im just so confused. im also terrified of eating more because im not hungry and already feel fat so am worried i dont lift enough to get muscle and will just balloon.

    You need to speak to your recovery team

    this
  • PShizle
    PShizle Posts: 48 Member
    A couple thoughts here: 1) in a calorie deficit your body will lose inches/weight primarily from about 80% fat and 20% muscle. 2) It is not "impossible" to gain muscle in a calorie deficit, but it is highly improbable. 3) You do not have to be in a calorie surplus in order to gain muscle; a neutral sum with higher proteins makes it possible for your body to burn fat and gain muscle (re-compositioning). 4) The average male adds about 5-7 lbs of muscle a year (females even less). You'll need to factor that in during your "bulking" cycle (unless you use supplements or illegal substances). 5) If you want to lose weight but not recomposition your body - do cardio. If however, you want to get toned, fit, nice abs, arms, legs, etc., do about 75% iron and 25% cardio - YES even for women. Make sure to do no more than about 30-40 mins of cardio post iron workouts so as not to deplete your glycogen reserves and burn muscle. I hope this input helps. Steven
  • Emilia777
    Emilia777 Posts: 978 Member
    babystepsforward wrote: »
    thanks alot guys, im just so confused. im also terrified of eating more because im not hungry and already feel fat so am worried i dont lift enough to get muscle and will just balloon.

    Yup, definitely talk to your recovery team. Best of luck, and I hope you find a way to feel better about your body and food stat!
  • PShizle
    PShizle Posts: 48 Member
    I have found the "sweet spot" for losing inches, adding muscle, and very slowly losing lbs., puts me around a 200- 300 calorie daily deficit using a seven-day zig zag cycle. Keep to healthy fats, clean protein, and under 100-125 grms of clean carbs. My diet is typically (zig-zag seven day): 2,000, 1850, 2250, 1900, 1850, 2100, 1850 with 225+ grams protein, 65-75 clean fats, and about 125 grams clean carbs 1/3_1/3_1/3 calorie distribution scaling up and down based on the day's caloric needs (fats take 9 calories per gram to burn; carbs and protein only take 3).

    For Info only:
    42yr male
    6' 1"
    210 lbs.
  • TavistockToad
    TavistockToad Posts: 35,719 Member
    slong4u wrote: »
    I have found the "sweet spot" for losing inches, adding muscle, and very slowly losing lbs., puts me around a 200- 300 calorie daily deficit using a seven-day zig zag cycle. Keep to healthy fats, clean protein, and under 100-125 grms of clean carbs. My diet is typically (zig-zag seven day): 2,000, 1850, 2250, 1900, 1850, 2100, 1850 with 225+ grams protein, 65-75 clean fats, and about 125 grams clean carbs 1/3_1/3_1/3 calorie distribution scaling up and down based on the day's caloric needs (fats take 9 calories per gram to burn; carbs and protein only take 3).

    For Info only:
    42yr male
    6' 1"
    210 lbs.

    I know you're trying to help, but If OP is trying to recover from an eating disorder, they shouldn't be focusing on 'clean protein' or reduced carbs, or a calorie deficit. They also shouldn't be strength training without getting clearance from a doctor.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    no...building muscle requires energy...calories are a unit of energy...you can't build something from nothing. you cannot be both in a catabolic state and anabolic state (building muscle) at the same time...if you are eating below maintenance you are in catabolic state.

  • babystepsforward
    babystepsforward Posts: 52 Member
    That makes sense thank you. I'm going to try introducing some more lifting and eat at maintenance which I've never done before
  • Emilia777
    Emilia777 Posts: 978 Member
    babystepsforward wrote: »
    That makes sense thank you. I'm going to try introducing some more lifting and eat at maintenance which I've never done before

    Take is slow, steady, and safely. Food is fuel, and it’s your friend! You can do this, and please do consult any specialists you have at your disposal. All the best! :smile:
  • AliceDark
    AliceDark Posts: 3,886 Member
    Keep in mind that when you're in recovery, you're not just building fat and muscle (like someone who is bulking does). People with ED histories typically lose bone density and organ tissue as well, and your body needs to build that back again. Some of what you gain is going to be "invisible" weight -- you don't see a visible change when you're gaining bone density or strengthening your heart muscle. Please try to remember that when you're eating, because a lot of the calories are being used to repair damage that you can't see.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    if you are new to lifting then you can have newbie gains; however, that is not really a long term plan for gaining mass.

    you can do a recomp and add muscle and lose fat, but this usually takes time and some find it a frustratingly slow process..

    at the end of the day you either need to recomp or eat in a surplus…oh and lift heavy but that applies to both recomp and eat in a surplus..

    are you new to lifting?
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    TavistockToad wrote: »
    babystepsforward wrote: »
    thanks alot guys, im just so confused. im also terrified of eating more because im not hungry and already feel fat so am worried i dont lift enough to get muscle and will just balloon.

    You need to speak to your recovery team

    +1
  • DedRepublic
    DedRepublic Posts: 348 Member
    Yes if you also add in resistance training. Depends on your goals...
  • Jakeroden29
    Jakeroden29 Posts: 3 Member
    edited June 2015
    For losing fat, you need to eat at a deficit, but for gaining muscle, you need to eat at a surplus.you can do both at the same time contrary to popular belief. But your body doesn't really need that much extra calorie to build muscle. It is about 100 calories at most. For gaining muscle and losing fat, you really just need to eat at your maintenance or maybe 100 calorie above your maintenance and make sure you are taking in enough protein. Of course you need to lift very heavy in the gym (go to failure in every set), then you will definitely see muscle gain and fat loss. It will be slower than if you are at a 500 calorie surplus, but when you gain muscle fast, you might gain a bit of fat nothing to worry about though. You need to also get into a routine I can't stress this enough! be consistent!
    Hopefully this helps!
  • AliceDark
    AliceDark Posts: 3,886 Member
    edited June 2015
    Jakeroden29 wrote: »
    For losing fat, you need to eat at a deficit, but for gaining muscle, you need to eat at a surplus.you can do both at the same time contrary to popular belief. But your body doesn't really need that much extra calorie to build muscle. It is about 100 calories at most. For gaining muscle and losing fat, you really just need to eat at your maintenance or maybe 100 calorie above your maintenance and make sure you are taking in enough protein. Of course you need to lift very heavy in the gym (go to failure in every set), then you will definitely see muscle gain and fat loss. It will be slower than if you are at a 500 calorie surplus, but when you gain muscle fast, you might gain a bit of fat nothing to worry about though. You need to also get into a routine I can't stress this enough! be consistent!
    Hopefully this helps!
    Granted, I'm assuming she's new to lifting, but...


    1. It's irresponsible to tell a newbie lifter to go to failure every set.
    2. It's super-extra-shiny irresponsible to tell a newbie lifter who is in recovery from an ED to go to failure every set.
    3. People in recovery from restrictive EDs have different caloric guidelines than other people. Maintenance for her current weight + 100 calories is probably lower than she needs (depending on a lot of factors, including how long she's been in recovery). Baseline recommendations for people in recovery are 2500+ calories.

    OP, the reason I'm being critical of people telling you to lift is that people in ED recovery can and do have heart attacks. They also break bones, because restrictive EDs cause you to lose bone density and muscle mass from everywhere. Don't jump into lifting without the okay from your doctor/treatment team, because it could be unsafe for you at this point. If they say it's okay, find a beginner lifting program or a trainer, and take it slowly.
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