Too much natural sugar?
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PeterJones123 wrote: »PeterJones123 wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »Ignore it. If you are getting your sugars from fruits and vegetable, you are eating far healthier than the average person.
I agree. And if you're eating the full fruit, the fiber neutralizes the bad effects of the sugar anyway.
lol wut??????
so if I have met my fiber for the day and eat added sugar does it work that way too? or does evils added sugar trump fiber???
Complete faulty logic and utter non-sense.
please feel free to clarify...
no one said anything about added sugar you just threw that in there. not sure if you're intentionally being off topic or hijacking.
the topic is about sugar, so not sure how commenting about sugar is off topic.
and the comment about fiber canceling out the bad affects of sugar was the ridiculous one. So I guess the poster was saying fruit sugar is bad, is that your argument?0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »But none of this supports the claim that ALL sugars should be limited to 15%, that there is any health reason to do so, or that eating more sugars from fruits and veggies and dairy would be bad for your health.
Well the EU and Australia did exactly that, set a limit for *total* sugars. I tried to find the materials for you but didn't get to the root of the decision making process, the EFSA discussion I quoted earlier -Europe's EFSA said "Although there is some evidence that high intakes (>20 E%) of sugars may increase serum triglyceride (TG) and cholesterol concentrations, and that >20 to 25 E% might adversely affect glucose and insulin response, the available data are not sufficient to set an upper limit for (added) sugar intake."
is along your lines of thought but was I think from 2010, we're waiting for the UK's SACN to come out with its final recommendation but they were going down the "free sugars" route.
I'll try harder to weed out the origins.
I'm aware that the US has no specified limit on total sugars. MFP has a considered target with their logic explained.
Personally I don't see why sugar in fruit should get a free pass unless my liver can tell the difference (triglycerides) nor have I seen any substantive science to justify treating sugars separarely to carbohydrate in general. I'm not in favour of distorting this to favour a food group for other reasons, those should be standalone.0 -
I'm one of those people on 1200 calories (five feet tall, and circling V E R Y slowly around my 110 goal weight). I have a banana or orange almost every morning, and indulge in a Weight Watchers ice cream or a Yoplait fruit yogurt almost every night. Yes, it is extremely easy to go over the sugar allowance, but I'm careful, and it isn't by much, so I don't really worry because my sugars are coming "with benefits". Oh, and summer is well on its way, with cherries and water melon, and wonderful ripe, messy peaches; and I will not deprive myself (within reason...) of my favorite summer treats of my favorite season.0
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PeterJones123 wrote: »PeterJones123 wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »Ignore it. If you are getting your sugars from fruits and vegetable, you are eating far healthier than the average person.
I agree. And if you're eating the full fruit, the fiber neutralizes the bad effects of the sugar anyway.
lol wut??????
so if I have met my fiber for the day and eat added sugar does it work that way too? or does evils added sugar trump fiber???
Complete faulty logic and utter non-sense.
please feel free to clarify...
no one said anything about added sugar you just threw that in there. not sure if you're intentionally being off topic or hijacking.
fiberz cancels out teh sugarz right? I feel you0 -
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PeterJones123 wrote: »PeterJones123 wrote: »PeterJones123 wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »Ignore it. If you are getting your sugars from fruits and vegetable, you are eating far healthier than the average person.
I agree. And if you're eating the full fruit, the fiber neutralizes the bad effects of the sugar anyway.
lol wut??????
so if I have met my fiber for the day and eat added sugar does it work that way too? or does evils added sugar trump fiber???
Complete faulty logic and utter non-sense.
please feel free to clarify...
no one said anything about added sugar you just threw that in there. not sure if you're intentionally being off topic or hijacking.
fiberz cancels out teh sugarz right? I feel you
You guys are a smart crowd, I guess fiber in fruit has no effect on sugar...
what effect of fiber on sugar are you talking about
and what are the "bad" effects of sugar
please enlighten us mere neanderthals0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »But none of this supports the claim that ALL sugars should be limited to 15%, that there is any health reason to do so, or that eating more sugars from fruits and veggies and dairy would be bad for your health.
Well the EU and Australia did exactly that, set a limit for *total* sugars. I tried to find the materials for you but didn't get to the root of the decision making process, the EFSA discussion I quoted earlier -Europe's EFSA said "Although there is some evidence that high intakes (>20 E%) of sugars may increase serum triglyceride (TG) and cholesterol concentrations, and that >20 to 25 E% might adversely affect glucose and insulin response, the available data are not sufficient to set an upper limit for (added) sugar intake."
is along your lines of thought but was I think from 2010, we're waiting for the UK's SACN to come out with its final recommendation but they were going down the "free sugars" route.
I'll try harder to weed out the origins.
I'm aware that the US has no specified limit on total sugars. MFP has a considered target with their logic explained.
Personally I don't see why sugar in fruit should get a free pass unless my liver can tell the difference (triglycerides) nor have I seen any substantive science to justify treating sugars separarely to carbohydrate in general. I'm not in favour of distorting this to favour a food group for other reasons, those should be standalone.
Because the problems the WHO (for one example) has pointed out with excessive free sugar doesn't indicate any harm from intrinsic sugar within calories. I've yet to see one reputable study or expert who says otherwise. (I don't consider Lustig reputable on this issue, and in any case his view is easily outweighed by the balance of nutrition scientists who I am familiar with.)0 -
Ignore the sugar. Log everything.
Problem solved.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Because the problems the WHO (for one example) has pointed out with excessive free sugar doesn't indicate any harm from intrinsic sugar within calories. I've yet to see one reputable study or expert who says otherwise.
The WHO contracted one particular group to do its work so the outcome was somewhat predictable. I have yet to see a solid analysis that differentiates the effect of carbohydrates, total sugar and added sugar.
Most nutritional advice, and perhaps science too, is tainted with vested interests from Dairy and Fruit promotional interests (at worst) or at best spends its time contradicting itself in order to avoid undesirable outcomes. For example you can't say the sugars in skimmed milk (effectively a soft drink) are bad as this may reduce calcium intake etc. You can't measure added sugars and if the raw data is low frequency food diaries etc then all of the science is built on shaky foundations.
http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g4490 "There was a threshold around five servings of fruit and vegetables a day, after which the risk of all cause mortality did not reduce further."
Diabetes relative risk from fruit intake :- http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/4/11/e005497.full
and leafy green veg :-
http://www.bmj.com/content/347/bmj.f5001 found increased diabetes risk associated with increased consumption of cantaloupe or fruit juice as picked up in the press at the time http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/aug/29/whole-fruit-juice-diabetes-risk
None of these risk factors are massively different from 1.0 (for example they aren't 3) so the case for or against anything isn't especially strong.0 -
Michael190lbs wrote: »If you're doing Slimming World, I hope you're counting the calories from all of your "free" foods where they tell you it's unnecessary to weigh, measure, or count:Slimming World provides detailed lists of foods that can be eaten in unlimited quantities. Fresh fruit and most veg are classified as Superfree Foods because they are so low in calories. Free Foods include lean meat, chicken, fish, potatoes, rice, pasta, grains, pulses, starchy veg, eggs, fat-free dairy products, Quorn and tofu.
how would rice and pasta be free? One two ounce serving of linguine is 200 calories, that does not sound free to me...
Because its a stupid fad!!
Lol, what's a "stupid fad"? I would never ever count bread, rice, pasta, etc. as "free". I've done Weight Watchers and the only thing free there are some vegetables and fruits. Personally I would always always weight/measure any pasta or rice, and would definitely count calories for bread.
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MamaBirdBoss wrote: »Ignore the sugar. Log everything.
Problem solved.
Now now....get outta here with your KISS logic. 0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »My suggestion would be to switch out sugar for fiber on you diary.
This. I've never tracked sugar. I do track fiber intake though.0 -
beemerphile1 wrote: »Ignore it. If you are getting your sugars from fruits and vegetable, you are eating far healthier than the average person.
This
And as long as you are eating a deficit you should still lose weight
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Because the problems the WHO (for one example) has pointed out with excessive free sugar doesn't indicate any harm from intrinsic sugar within calories. I've yet to see one reputable study or expert who says otherwise.
The WHO contracted one particular group to do its work so the outcome was somewhat predictable. I have yet to see a solid analysis that differentiates the effect of carbohydrates, total sugar and added sugar.
I'm not saying there is. But the WHO's point is that added sugar tends to be in low nutrition/high calorie items (although I'd add that a good percentage of the calories are typically from fat, not just sugar/carbs). So keeping the percentage of added sugar down is not really because of some alleged toxic effect of sugar in higher amounts, but as a good proxy for encouraging a more balanced/nutritious, lower calorie diet. In essence the argument is that adding lots of soda and sweets to a society's diet tends to result in more obesity than basing the diet on, say, rice or pasta or other high carb staples.
IMO, there's a lot more to the difference than merely the addition of sugar--the diet differences are reflective of different sorts of society and the availability of food overall--but the fact remains that the WHO's reasoning does not suggest a basis for limiting sugar from fruit, veggies, and dairy to some low amount that happens to correspond with the current average consumption of such. Unlike increasing added sugar, increasing fruits and veggies usually has a positive effect on overall diet and overall calories (assuming one is concerned with maintaining or losing weight).
Also, again, I'm not saying eating more than the recommended 5 or whatever is necessary for the nutrients. The point is saying eating more is harmful or people should worry about whether they are eating too many fruits and veggies (other than noting the calories, particularly in fruit) is not likely to be helpful and probably discourages healthy actions. Also, it doesn't address whether in an individual situation eating more might help someone be satisfied on a lower calorie diet, which is the specific situation people with a 45 gram limit at MFP face.0
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