Muscle to fat ratio

galgenstrick
galgenstrick Posts: 2,086 Member
I've seen mixed opinions on this and don't see much research.

for a male in their late 20's, relatively new to lifting, and around 10% BF, how much muscle to fat can they expect to gain with a 0.5-1 pound per week goal? Proper heavy lifting of course.

Anyone have research or their own results they can share?

Replies

  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,147 Member
    Most assume 1:1 ...

    For the example you cited maybe 1.25/1.5 to 1 muscle to fat
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,589 Member
    I've seen mixed opinions on this and don't see much research.

    for a male in their late 20's, relatively new to lifting, and around 10% BF, how much muscle to fat can they expect to gain with a 0.5-1 pound per week goal? Proper heavy lifting of course.

    Anyone have research or their own results they can share?

    You are looking at the p ratio. It gets really complicated but you'll gain more than 50% muscle if you keep your bulk clean but the exact amount will be hard to guage. We normally expect around 1:1 muscle to fat ratio just to make it easier. When you are only gaining a half pound to a pound a week you won't be far off using this estimate.
  • galgenstrick
    galgenstrick Posts: 2,086 Member
    Thanks guys. I'm reverse dieting now after losing 42 pounds. It's not going perfectly because I'm super hungry all the sudden after increasing my calories. Im up to 2100 a day but eating 2300 or so some days. I think my TDEE is close to 2500 though, so probably not a big deal.

    I actually don't fully understand reverse dieting, it seems like you could just eat at maintenance right away for a few weeks instead of adding calories slowly and not gain any extra fat? If you increase slowly you would still be in a deficit until you hit maintenance, correct? Reverse dieting is hyped up like you'll gain a bunch of fat if you increase your calories to maintenance in one shot, which makes no sense from an energy balance standpoint....

    Anyways, exited to bulk! I'm looking to gain 20-30 pounds over the next 8 months and was curious just how fat I would get if I did that, bulking is new territory for me!
  • ExRelaySprinter
    ExRelaySprinter Posts: 874 Member
    edited July 2015
    it seems like you could just eat at maintenance right away for a few weeks instead of adding calories slowly and not gain any extra fat?

    Yes, this is what did when i started maintaining.
    I reached my goal weight, then immediately went from eating 1600 cals to my TDEE of 1900.
    In fact, i still lost 0.5lb for another 3 weeks after.....so obviously my TDEE is a little higher than 1900. But on average, i now eat around 2100.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,589 Member
    Thanks guys. I'm reverse dieting now after losing 42 pounds. It's not going perfectly because I'm super hungry all the sudden after increasing my calories. Im up to 2100 a day but eating 2300 or so some days. I think my TDEE is close to 2500 though, so probably not a big deal.

    I actually don't fully understand reverse dieting, it seems like you could just eat at maintenance right away for a few weeks instead of adding calories slowly and not gain any extra fat? If you increase slowly you would still be in a deficit until you hit maintenance, correct? Reverse dieting is hyped up like you'll gain a bunch of fat if you increase your calories to maintenance in one shot, which makes no sense from an energy balance standpoint....

    Anyways, exited to bulk! I'm looking to gain 20-30 pounds over the next 8 months and was curious just how fat I would get if I did that, bulking is new territory for me!

    The purpose of reverse dieting is lies in the fact that your have a metabolic gap due to adaptive thermogenesis. Reverse dieting is a method to slowly close this gap and attempt to minimize fat regain after your initial loss. You could try to go to your maintenance right away but chances are that your true maintenance is a bit lower than the norm so you would actually be in a slight surplus. With a reverse diet you feel your way to your actual maintenance level, hopefully, and then try to restore your normal metabolism over time.
  • galgenstrick
    galgenstrick Posts: 2,086 Member
    Thanks, I figured if you're eat 1800 calories and consistantly losing 1.5 pounds per week like I was, then you pretty accurately know your TDEE is 2550. So even if you had some metabolic slow down from the calorie reduction, that should be accounted for in that number and thus eating anything under that would cause you to lose more weight.

    Maybe the reverse dieting has a bigger role when trying to increase into a bulk. You'll get a small metabolic speed up by increasing slowly when going over your maintenance, and thus raising your TDEE slightly.
  • galgenstrick
    galgenstrick Posts: 2,086 Member
    Thanks guys. I'm reverse dieting now after losing 42 pounds. It's not going perfectly because I'm super hungry all the sudden after increasing my calories. Im up to 2100 a day but eating 2300 or so some days. I think my TDEE is close to 2500 though, so probably not a big deal.

    I actually don't fully understand reverse dieting, it seems like you could just eat at maintenance right away for a few weeks instead of adding calories slowly and not gain any extra fat? If you increase slowly you would still be in a deficit until you hit maintenance, correct? Reverse dieting is hyped up like you'll gain a bunch of fat if you increase your calories to maintenance in one shot, which makes no sense from an energy balance standpoint....

    Anyways, exited to bulk! I'm looking to gain 20-30 pounds over the next 8 months and was curious just how fat I would get if I did that, bulking is new territory for me!

    The purpose of reverse dieting is lies in the fact that your have a metabolic gap due to adaptive thermogenesis. Reverse dieting is a method to slowly close this gap and attempt to minimize fat regain after your initial loss. You could try to go to your maintenance right away but chances are that your true maintenance is a bit lower than the norm so you would actually be in a slight surplus. With a reverse diet you feel your way to your actual maintenance level, hopefully, and then try to restore your normal metabolism over time.

    I definitely see your point. And regardless, I'll do my best to stick with the reverse diet until I get where I need to be. Might as well do it right, It's just hard not to overeat when you've been in a moderate to slightly aggressive deficit for 6 months.
  • Brolympus
    Brolympus Posts: 360 Member
    I've seen mixed opinions on this and don't see much research.

    for a male in their late 20's, relatively new to lifting, and around 10% BF, how much muscle to fat can they expect to gain with a 0.5-1 pound per week goal? Proper heavy lifting of course.

    Anyone have research or their own results they can share?

    You are looking at the p ratio. It gets really complicated but you'll gain more than 50% muscle if you keep your bulk clean but the exact amount will be hard to guage. We normally expect around 1:1 muscle to fat ratio just to make it easier. When you are only gaining a half pound to a pound a week you won't be far off using this estimate.

    Pretty much this. Your p-ratio is geared primarily by genetics, but your bodyfat % also influences it. You are primed for best muscle growth at your current bf%, so regardless of the weight you put on, rest assured the ratio is likely your body's optimum. Once your bf approaches the 20-25% range, calorie partitioning starts to shift to fat storage. This is the point where you cut back down to the 10-12% bf range. Rinse and repeat until swole :)
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,589 Member
    Thanks guys. I'm reverse dieting now after losing 42 pounds. It's not going perfectly because I'm super hungry all the sudden after increasing my calories. Im up to 2100 a day but eating 2300 or so some days. I think my TDEE is close to 2500 though, so probably not a big deal.

    I actually don't fully understand reverse dieting, it seems like you could just eat at maintenance right away for a few weeks instead of adding calories slowly and not gain any extra fat? If you increase slowly you would still be in a deficit until you hit maintenance, correct? Reverse dieting is hyped up like you'll gain a bunch of fat if you increase your calories to maintenance in one shot, which makes no sense from an energy balance standpoint....

    Anyways, exited to bulk! I'm looking to gain 20-30 pounds over the next 8 months and was curious just how fat I would get if I did that, bulking is new territory for me!

    The purpose of reverse dieting is lies in the fact that your have a metabolic gap due to adaptive thermogenesis. Reverse dieting is a method to slowly close this gap and attempt to minimize fat regain after your initial loss. You could try to go to your maintenance right away but chances are that your true maintenance is a bit lower than the norm so you would actually be in a slight surplus. With a reverse diet you feel your way to your actual maintenance level, hopefully, and then try to restore your normal metabolism over time.

    I definitely see your point. And regardless, I'll do my best to stick with the reverse diet until I get where I need to be. Might as well do it right, It's just hard not to overeat when you've been in a moderate to slightly aggressive deficit for 6 months.

    Yeah, I know what you mean. I took a few months to reverse diet and stick at maintenance before I started bulking successfully. I felt like just shoveling food sometimes when I was starting to bulk until my body got used to it and then I felt saiety again after a few weeks but it was a bit of a struggle to stay where I wanted to. You'll normal out after a while once your hormones rebalance.