Where do you guys stand on this debate?

One of my quirks is that I like organic strawberries, Florida oranges, and granny smith apples. I buy everything else according to how how they look that day in the produce section.
Logically, organic and non-organic make little difference. And they make no difference at all in weight loss.

With iceberg lettuce (which is the only type of lettuce that I buy), I always throw away the 1st layer; most of the time 2 because they just look so dirty, then I rinse each layer; as I peel it but I don't eat, the thick & hard part, near the stem; only the soft & flexible parts.

The organic debate is kind of a double edged sword. On the one hand, eating organically is better for the envrioment (and you!) by eliminating the use of the most harmful pesticides and herbicides during the growing process. However, on the other hand, eating organically also often means that your produce is being shipped in from th other side of the country (or even from overseas -- this is especially true in the case of most organic beef sold in the USA.) which is bad for the envrioment due to the fuel that the transportation requires. Optimally, we should eat in-season produce and meat that was grown/raised organically from local farmers.

Obviously, this isn't possible due to logistic/cost/geographic reasons. Because of that, I take a multilayered stance on the issue. If I have the option of buying it from a local farm, I will buy it fhere, even if it isn't organic. Local produce doesn't take as much oil to get from the farm to my mouth, so it has less of an enviromental impact. You're also supporting local agriculture by doing this. Plus, many local farmers grow their products using organic methods, even if they aren't certified USDA organic. Certifacation costs a ton of money and has a lot of legal red tape involved in it, so lots of little guys aren't able to get USDA certifacation, even if they follow organic standards. Just ask them how they grow their products.

If local isn't an option, then I typically follow the Enviromental Working Group's "Dirty Dozen" and "Clean Fifteen" lists. Things like apples, berries, peaches, tomatoes, lettuce (pretty much anything where you eat the peel ) I try to buy organic if possible. Other things with thick rinds and peels, like bananas, organges, and melons I tend to buy conventionally to save some money.

I always buy meat, eggs, and dairy organically. This is a moral, as well as health-conscious choice. Organically raised animals are treated better than conventionally raised animals, even if only marginally. I'd rather (and often do,) go without meat rather than buying conventional meat.

As far as processed snack foods are concerned, I pay more attention to the ingredients on the label rather than whether the snack is organic or not. For example, Triscuits are not organic, but they only have a couple of simple ingredients. On the other hand, there are some organic crackers out there that have ingredient lists rivaling those of Ritz and Club crackers in length. When it comes to processed foods, I believe that simple is the way to go, organic or not.

I actively avoid food labeled as organic because it inevitably costs more for no benefit.

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Personally, I buy local fruit and vegetables in season @ farmers markets. (not a very long season here in Minnesota) The rest of the year, I buy what is on sale at the grocery store most of the time.

I am a little dubious of claims of organic. Unless you are growing your own produce and raising your own meat, how can you be sure of what you are getting. Plus, the rain, rains down on all farms from the same sky and the run off from fields that use chemicals etc goes into the same water supply.

Organic costs more, and the benefits are small according to some studies.

Just because a food is grown organically doesn't mean that pesticides are not used; organic pesticides (naturally occurring pesticides) like tobacco and some peppers and oils can still be used. In general, organic foods do have lower levels of pesticides, antibiotics, and synthetic hormones. Washing your produce well can reduce the amount of pesticides present on your food and I recommend it.

No one needs to buy organic anything, but it is one strategy to reduce exposure to certain chemicals.
Personally, I don’t care about buying organic for myself. I do shop at my local farmers market on occasion, not because the produce is organic, but because it actually tastes better, which is important to me.
After my girlfriend and I are married and decide to have kids, we will eat more organic foods during her pregnancy and while she is nursing. Many of the chemicals used in non-organic meat, produce, and dairy bioaccumulate/ are stored in fat. Meats are especially bad, because the animals are given high doses of antibiotics to help them retain water and inflate their mass. There are loads more things done to meat, but I am drawing a blank…I’ve been out of school for a while and I am forgetting. During pregnancy the body utilizes those fat stores and can pass high concentrations of chemicals to the fetus. Also, breast milk is very fatty and can accumulate the same unwanted chemicals for the same reason as above.

Eating locally is not always better for the environment. Think about California’s current troubles with water and the agricultural industry. Farmers in California are so hard up for cheap water that they’ve begun using lower quality water that has a higher concentration of salt. They are essentially salting their fields; if this practice continues eventually nothing will be able to be grown in areas of California. Obviously this is not good for the environment, and could be local for some.
Also, the argument that “Local produce doesn't take as much oil to get from the farm to my mouth, so it has less of an environmental impact” is overly simplistic and ignores things like economies of scale and efficiency. This is not to say I don’t think people shouldn’t support local agricultural, we all should, but the issue of environmental impacts are complicated.

There are not any peer-reviewed articles that I know of that have linked organic foods to better health outcomes for people, so there is that. What has been documented in peer-reviewed studies is lower levels of residual pesticides and other chemicals in people that eat organic foods. @Strawblackcat – there is research available on pubmed that shows widespread pesticide residues in citrus fruits so don’t think the rind is protecting you, certain fungicides used post harvesting can penetrate the rind.

This is a much longer post then I intended to write…I haven’t thought about most of this stuff in this depth for a long time so take what I said with a grain of salt. I do have a graduate degree in environmental health sciences, so I kind of know what I am talking about. I have done modeling of the environmental impacts of different products including foods; I can tell you from first-hand experience judging the environmental impact of a product is complicated and local is not always better in this regard. I also had to take coursework in nutrition of all things, but this coursework has probably influenced my daily life the most. I don’t really keep up with new developments in science, but I do follow the news and think critically about these things. I don’t have an axe to grind on this topic; I work in healthcare. Hopefully this is helpful.

sheermomentum wrote: »

I avoid organic products generally. There is no environmental benefit from special farming practices. There are no special farming practices involved- only different chemicals permitted. Farming practices are something a farmer decides based upon his land, and the needs of the crop. There is no reduction in pesticide usage, just different pesticides. If a particular organic (or conventional) farmer decides to forego pesticides on a crop, then he's going to reduce his yield significantly, which not only drives up the price but increases the wear-and-tear on the soil for basically no reason - its inefficient land use. There's no difference in nutritional value. So the only real reason to buy organic is because of the really great marketing that's been done by groups like the Organic Trade Association. However, if I find a really good packaged product and its organic I won't refuse to buy it just because its "organic."

Very well said. I am pretty much the same way. I grew up on a farm (non-organic) so my take on the issue is a bit different than the mainstream. A lot of the pro-organic hype describes farmers as irresponsible users of chemicals. Not only is that cost prohibitive, but farmers actually do care about keeping their farmland healthy. My family farm has been in the family for several generations and hopefully will remain in the family for several more. With that in mind, the choice of growing methods, including the application of pesticides and fertilizers, is made to keep the land healthy for the future. For example, responsible use of Round-Up ready crops allows us to use no-till growing methods for our soybeans. This helps keep the soil healthy and prevents erosion.

Here's an interesting map showing both the shortage and over-use of nitrogen fertilizer. An article suggested China's over-use stems from a history of famine. Farmers dread the spectre of failed crops, so habitually over-fertilize there.

DeguelloTex wrote: »

I actively avoid food labeled as organic because it inevitably costs more for no benefit.

Pretty much this. I'm not going to pay $3 more for 1lb of strawberries. Or $1 more for a can of organic pinto beans. If anything, you'd think organic would be cheaper because you're supposedly not adding anything to it. You'd think adding pesticides and stuff would cost more. Who'd have thought.

If I buy something organic, it's not on purpose. I can't afford to buy organic and I really don't care that much.

Ninkyou wrote: »

DeguelloTex wrote: »

I actively avoid food labeled as organic because it inevitably costs more for no benefit.

Pretty much this. I'm not going to pay $3 more for 1lb of strawberries. Or $1 more for a can of organic pinto beans. If anything, you'd think organic would be cheaper because you're supposedly not adding anything to it. You'd think adding pesticides and stuff would cost more. Who'd have thought.

If I buy something organic, it's not on purpose. I can't afford to buy organic and I really don't care that much.

Reasons for increased prices of organic:
- organic can be more labor intensive than conventional
- usually has a lower yield
- because they can (supply/demand)
- organic pesticides (your bolded statement isn't accurate). There is a whole market of non-synthetic pesticides farmers can use to still be considered organic.

At the end of the day, it is impossible for the consumer to know under what conditions their food was raised. A label of organic versus non-organic, GMO vs non-GMO only makes you feel informed while in reality it is so incredibly broad that it provides minimal information. We just need to make sure that the USDA properly creating and enforcing reasonable regulations to keep our food safe. Kinda scary, but they get a lot of stuff right.

I think organic can be better for you, but there are a lot of other factors that go towards making food less healthy. For example, a cow that is fed orangic grains to fatten/finish it will have a different type of meat with a changed ratio of omega 6 to 3, than a cow who is grass fed it's entire life.

I have a close friend who had an autoimmune disease that was impacting her life; she was on steroids for years. Then she changed her diet to organic and non-GMO (when possible) and eliminated all added sugars and processed foods. Within a year she was off steroids and she has not had a another occurrance in 12 years. She did something right and perhaps eating organic helped. She isn't willing to stop what she is doing to test the theory.

Plus I think organic (veggies and fruit) often tastes better. Not always but often.

If I could afford to buy everything organic and non-GMO, I would. JMO

Unless you grow/raise it yourself you don't know

I stand on the side of what's cheaper and looks better, and against what's unnecessary. If there are any special benefits to organic, they must be trivial because I could not find one convincing argument for it. I'm not with the fear mongering on either side, and I don't find I care enough about this particular debate so I'm usually in the sidelines.