Where do you guys stand on this debate?

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  • aledba
    aledba Posts: 564 Member
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    I go organic when it's the 'dirty dozen'. The 'clean fifteen' though, I'm flexible with. Sometimes I do find that organic tastes better, depending on the produce (bananas, apples, grapes, lettuce)
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
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    i don't really worry about it either way...I buy most of my groceries, including produce at costco...they have a lot of organic stuff that doesn't really cost much more so I usually will opt for that..but I don't go out of my way to buy organic...

    I think certain things do taste better...I think organic cage free eggs taste better than not...and I like grass fed beef better...which is kind of pricey, but I don't eat that much beef.
  • beemerphile1
    beemerphile1 Posts: 1,710 Member
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    kdiamond wrote: »
    I think there are a lot of foods labeled as organic which really aren't organic.

    Your best bet is to buy local produce.

    I do buy grass-fed meats (when all possible) and organic and/or grass-fed dairy products (with the exception of cheese). Those make sense to me, because they don't feed hormones to the animals. I also do try to steer clear of GMOs as well. I don't need any Round Up in my foods.

    Hopefully you realize that grass fed doesn't mean much. It only means that at some time in the animal's life it ate grass. At least be certain that it is grass fed & finished. Many grass fed animals are on grain/feed for the last months to fatten them and add marbling to the meat.
  • beemerphile1
    beemerphile1 Posts: 1,710 Member
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    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    i don't really worry about it either way...I buy most of my groceries, including produce at costco...they have a lot of organic stuff that doesn't really cost much more so I usually will opt for that..but I don't go out of my way to buy organic...

    I think certain things do taste better...I think organic cage free eggs taste better than not...and I like grass fed beef better...which is kind of pricey, but I don't eat that much beef.

    This is the factory farm definition of that "Cage Free" label;

    ?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.oregonlive.com%2Foregonian%2Fphoto%2F2013%2F02%2F12347579-standard.jpg&f=1

    Seriously, it is perfectly legit and meets the definition of cage free.
  • headwind2015
    headwind2015 Posts: 69 Member
    edited July 2015
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    Drewlssix wrote: »
    Oh, and you will never ever find a verifiable source that proves "organic" produce has better nutrition OR taste. Such proof dose not exist and every study points to there being no measurable difference. Stop spreading lies.



    You're correct about nutritional value but wrong about taste. Taste in things like chicken, and tomatoes has been decreasing for some time now. Chicken is a really really good example, 50 years ago the time it took for a chicken to grow to market size was about 21 weeks. Now the time frame for a chicken to to grow to market weight is 6-7 weeks. This has happened in large part because of nutritional modifications that promote the retention of water.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
    edited July 2015
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    beemerphile1 wrote: »
    kdiamond wrote: »
    I think there are a lot of foods labeled as organic which really aren't organic.

    Your best bet is to buy local produce.

    I do buy grass-fed meats (when all possible) and organic and/or grass-fed dairy products (with the exception of cheese). Those make sense to me, because they don't feed hormones to the animals. I also do try to steer clear of GMOs as well. I don't need any Round Up in my foods.

    Hopefully you realize that grass fed doesn't mean much. It only means that at some time in the animal's life it ate grass. At least be certain that it is grass fed & finished. Many grass fed animals are on grain/feed for the last months to fatten them and add marbling to the meat.

    No, this isn't true. USDA grass fed means that once weaned from mother's milk the animal is fed exclusively grass and forage.

    http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/ams.fetchTemplateData.do?template=TemplateN&rightNav1=GrassFedMarketingClaimStandards&topNav=&leftNav=GradingCertificationandVerfication&page=GrassFedMarketingClaims&resultType

    Grass Fed Marketing Claim Standards

    Claim and Standard:
    Grass (Forage) Fed – Grass and forage shall be the feed source consumed for the lifetime of the ruminant animal, with the exception of milk consumed prior to weaning. The diet shall be derived solely from forage consisting of grass (annual and perennial), forbs (e.g., legumes, Brassica), browse, or cereal grain crops in the vegetative (pre-grain) state. Animals cannot be fed grain or grain byproducts and must have continuous access to pasture during the growing season. Hay, haylage, baleage, silage, crop residue without grain, and other roughage sources may also be included as acceptable feed sources. Routine mineral and vitamin supplementation may also be included in the feeding regimen. If incidental supplementation occurs due to inadvertent exposure to non-forage feedstuffs or to ensure the animal’s well being at all times during adverse environmental or physical conditions, the producer must fully document (e.g., receipts, ingredients, and tear tags) the supplementation that occurs including the amount, the frequency, and the supplements provided.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
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    I can get behind the campaign to buy fruits and vegetables that don't fit our image, but are perfectly fine to eat. Here's a French campaign to do just that.
    article-2693000-1FA30DC900000578-390_634x920.jpg
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
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    beemerphile1 wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    i don't really worry about it either way...I buy most of my groceries, including produce at costco...they have a lot of organic stuff that doesn't really cost much more so I usually will opt for that..but I don't go out of my way to buy organic...

    I think certain things do taste better...I think organic cage free eggs taste better than not...and I like grass fed beef better...which is kind of pricey, but I don't eat that much beef.

    This is the factory farm definition of that "Cage Free" label;

    ?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.oregonlive.com%2Foregonian%2Fphoto%2F2013%2F02%2F12347579-standard.jpg&f=1

    Seriously, it is perfectly legit and meets the definition of cage free.

    Not sure what definition you are using, but by the USDA definition, those birds in cages (or eggs from them) could not labeled cage free. Cage free means exactly and only what is says. The chickens cannot be in cages. They may be kept inside for their whole lives, but not in cages. They must be allowed to roam, even if inside a building.
  • headwind2015
    headwind2015 Posts: 69 Member
    edited July 2015
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    beemerphile1 wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    i don't really worry about it either way...I buy most of my groceries, including produce at costco...they have a lot of organic stuff that doesn't really cost much more so I usually will opt for that..but I don't go out of my way to buy organic...

    I think certain things do taste better...I think organic cage free eggs taste better than not...and I like grass fed beef better...which is kind of pricey, but I don't eat that much beef.

    This is the factory farm definition of that "Cage Free" label;

    ?u=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.oregonlive.com%2Foregonian%2Fphoto%2F2013%2F02%2F12347579-standard.jpg&f=1

    Seriously, it is perfectly legit and meets the definition of cage free.

    Very true. The pictures is not exactly accurate as some of the animals are in cages, but they can be packed like that. Here is the USDA definition of cage-free: Cage-free. This label indicates that the flock was able to freely roam a building, room, or enclosed area with unlimited access to food and fresh water during their production cycle.
  • Mischievous_Rascal
    Mischievous_Rascal Posts: 1,791 Member
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    yirara wrote: »
    I remember a test of organic food a while ago for pesticides, and the finding was that the organic foods tested were only slightly lower in pesticides due to them being grown next to normal fields.

    Actually organic foods are allowed to have an "acceptable" level of pesticides to be labeled as such, so considering the price difference, what's the point?

  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
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    jgnatca wrote: »
    I can get behind the campaign to buy fruits and vegetables that don't fit our image, but are perfectly fine to eat. Here's a French campaign to do just that.
    article-2693000-1FA30DC900000578-390_634x920.jpg

    Me too!! It is shocking the food that is wasted by grocery stores. Often just tossed in the garbage.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
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    I husbanded a gaggle of rats at one point of my life, and I tell you, this 'free range' rage makes me cringe. At least if chickens are housed in individual cubicles/flocks, an infected flock can be easily isolated, preventing the spread (sometimes terrifyingly fast) of disease.
  • headwind2015
    headwind2015 Posts: 69 Member
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    jgnatca wrote: »
    I husbanded a gaggle of rats at one point of my life, and I tell you, this 'free range' rage makes me cringe. At least if chickens are housed in individual cubicles/flocks, an infected flock can be easily isolated, preventing the spread (sometimes terrifyingly fast) of disease.

    The problems is even worse with farm raised fish!!
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
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    @headwind2015 , I'm betting you'll like this chef's story of a fish.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_how_i_fell_in_love_with_a_fish?language=en
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
    edited July 2015
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    jgnatca wrote: »
    I husbanded a gaggle of rats at one point of my life, and I tell you, this 'free range' rage makes me cringe. At least if chickens are housed in individual cubicles/flocks, an infected flock can be easily isolated, preventing the spread (sometimes terrifyingly fast) of disease.

    Oh, I don't know that I agree. I raise chickens and they seem to be such social creatures. It seems like they'd be miserable caged separately.

    Edit for clarification: I don't mean I don't agree that the spreading of disease would be lessened with separate housing, just that I don't agree it would be good practice due to reason given above.
  • jacoblp
    jacoblp Posts: 13 Member
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    Organic is probably a bit better for you but not enough to justify the price difference.
  • headwind2015
    headwind2015 Posts: 69 Member
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    jgnatca wrote: »
    @headwind2015 , I'm betting you'll like this chef's story of a fish.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/dan_barber_how_i_fell_in_love_with_a_fish?language=en

    Thanks for the link! I haven't heard this talk before, but I love Dan's (I can use his first name...right?) philosophy on food.
  • sheermomentum
    sheermomentum Posts: 827 Member
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    nvsmomketo wrote: »
    I think organic can be better for you, but there are a lot of other factors that go towards making food less healthy. For example, a cow that is fed orangic grains to fatten/finish it will have a different type of meat with a changed ratio of omega 6 to 3, than a cow who is grass fed it's entire life.

    No. Just No. A cow that is fed GRAINS to finish will produce beef with a slightly different nutrient profile than a cow that is fed grass to finish, and a cow that is fed anything with Omega 3's in it will produce beef with more Omega 3's. Organic or otherwise has absolutely nothing to do with it.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,576 Member
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    sheermomentum wrote: »
    nvsmomketo wrote: »
    I think organic can be better for you, but there are a lot of other factors that go towards making food less healthy. For example, a cow that is fed orangic grains to fatten/finish it will have a different type of meat with a changed ratio of omega 6 to 3, than a cow who is grass fed it's entire life.

    No. Just No. A cow that is fed GRAINS to finish will produce beef with a slightly different nutrient profile than a cow that is fed grass to finish, and a cow that is fed anything with Omega 3's in it will produce beef with more Omega 3's. Organic or otherwise has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    But a cow raise organically will not be pumped full of hormones, steroids and antibiotics throughout it's life. Those things remain in the meat we eat.
  • MarziPanda95
    MarziPanda95 Posts: 1,326 Member
    edited July 2015
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    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    sheermomentum wrote: »
    nvsmomketo wrote: »
    I think organic can be better for you, but there are a lot of other factors that go towards making food less healthy. For example, a cow that is fed orangic grains to fatten/finish it will have a different type of meat with a changed ratio of omega 6 to 3, than a cow who is grass fed it's entire life.

    No. Just No. A cow that is fed GRAINS to finish will produce beef with a slightly different nutrient profile than a cow that is fed grass to finish, and a cow that is fed anything with Omega 3's in it will produce beef with more Omega 3's. Organic or otherwise has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    But a cow raise organically will not be pumped full of hormones, steroids and antibiotics throughout it's life. Those things remain in the meat we eat.

    So... the cow will probably get diseases, then? The antibiotics are for a reason. No thanks, I'll stick to non-organic. Plus, I'm on hormone and steroid medication anyway!

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