Type of Strength Training while in a deficit?

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JDBIsaacs
JDBIsaacs Posts: 8 Member
edited August 2015 in Fitness and Exercise
Hi guys

I have been looking for answers on this topic but there seem to be 2 different schools of thought when it comes to what TYPE of strength training is best to preserve muscle during a deficit.

Should I train for low reps, heavy weight OR
Should I train for volume with a lighter weight OR
Does it not matter?

I have been training with a personal trainer for a long time. Before I started on this deficit we were training low reps(1-5 rep range w/ heavy weights). He suggested that as I go on this caloric deficit that need to be training for VOLUME instead(10-15 rep range w/ fairly light weights).

I am DEATHLY afraid that I will lose all my muscle and strength that I have built over the years if I only train for volume during a deficit. It just seems too light. Since we have started training for volume my bench press has dropped from 220lbs to 143lbs and similarly with my squat. Also we are doing about 3 different exercises for chest when we do chest etc for other body parts, is this necessary?

I am worried that if I do not lift as hard I will lose all of my gains. Is this just a fallacy? Can I get away with doing 4x12 bench press at 146 vs 5x5 @ 220.

Will I preserve the same amount of muscle doing Low-Rep/High-Weight Strength Training as opposed to High-Rep/Low-Weight Strength training while on a caloric deficit?

Of course I don't expect to keep ALL of my muscle mass but I don't want to lose over 50lbs on lifts all round.

Replies

  • richln
    richln Posts: 809 Member
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    Lyle McDonald has some strong opinions on this. Worth a read if you haven't seen these yet:
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-1.html/
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/training/weight-training-for-fat-loss-part-2.html/
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html/
    tl;dr: Keep lifting heavy weight and reduce your frequency and or number of sets during a cut as needed for proper recovery.
  • TR0berts
    TR0berts Posts: 7,739 Member
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    Since you're on a Caloric deficit, you are likely to lose both some muscle and some strength. Provided your deficit is small enough and isn't for a prolonged amount of time, and you're eating adequate protein, you shouldn't lose too much of either.

    I don't think you'll lose that much doing 4x12x146 - in fact, you might keep a little more muscle, but lose a little more strength than doing 5x5x220. But I'm not sure why your trainer has you doing that many chest exercises. What, exactly, is your goal that you told him? If you're looking for something similar to a typical bodybuilder physique, then I guess I can see that. But if you're just looking to be in overall good shape and fairly strong, then I don't think what he's giving you quite makes sense. That, of course, is just my own d@mned opinion.

    On that note, tell us, so we can maybe give a little better guidance: what, exactly, is/are your goal(s)?


    @ninerbuff, @kgeyser : can someone maybe move this to an appropriate subforum, such as Fitness and Exercise or Goal: Losing Weight? Not that he won't get good advice here, just that it doesn't really belong in the Gaining Weight subforum.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,392 MFP Moderator
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    TR0berts wrote: »
    Since you're on a Caloric deficit, you are likely to lose both some muscle and some strength. Provided your deficit is small enough and isn't for a prolonged amount of time, and you're eating adequate protein, you shouldn't lose too much of either.

    I don't think you'll lose that much doing 4x12x146 - in fact, you might keep a little more muscle, but lose a little more strength than doing 5x5x220. But I'm not sure why your trainer has you doing that many chest exercises. What, exactly, is your goal that you told him? If you're looking for something similar to a typical bodybuilder physique, then I guess I can see that. But if you're just looking to be in overall good shape and fairly strong, then I don't think what he's giving you quite makes sense. That, of course, is just my own d@mned opinion.

    On that note, tell us, so we can maybe give a little better guidance: what, exactly, is/are your goal(s)?


    @ninerbuff, @kgeyser : can someone maybe move this to an appropriate subforum, such as Fitness and Exercise or Goal: Losing Weight? Not that he won't get good advice here, just that it doesn't really belong in the Gaining Weight subforum.

    Moved...
  • JDBIsaacs
    JDBIsaacs Posts: 8 Member
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    Thanks for the response

    Will definitely check out those articles

    My overall goal is just to lose as much body fat as possible over the next 6 months. I want to be leaner. I weigh 220lbs and am 20% body fat, so 176lbs LBM. I'm looking to have surgery on my chest at the end of those 6 months to remove what is called gynaecomastia (basically genetic man boobs). Its something that has affected my confidence for years. So all of this is in preparation for that surgery. My goal here is about 200lbs with around 12% bf. During this time I want to preserve as much muscle as possible while I'm on the deficit so that I'm not just throwing away all the good muscle I have build up until this point.
  • sarco59
    sarco59 Posts: 2 Member
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    Before any surgery is scheduled I would suggest a second or third option before proceeding. Depending on your diet and exercise regimen a person can usually achieve the results over time. It doesn't happen over night so please be patient. If you don't follow strict diet,
    even after surgery, your problem will likely come back to haunt you. Also, many men, including myself carry any excess weight around my
    upper chest area. Specific chect exercises will tighten that area, and diet will reduce fat accumulation. Be patient! It could take up to a year for your own ppersonalized results. Take photos before you start and once every month. Remember, it took you time to get in the shape you are currently in It will take time to get your wanted results. I've been lifting for over 40 years, and am always learning. Be patient.
    Good luck!
  • sarco59
    sarco59 Posts: 2 Member
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    PS.. Ignore that stupid photo of me. It was taken as a joke, and I can't figure out how to delete it.
  • XavierNusum
    XavierNusum Posts: 720 Member
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    1) ypu cannot maintain peak strength all the time. Switching from maximal strength to mass or hypertrophy is necessary sometimes. Your normal training macro-cycle should include some mass work in maintenance or bulk calorie levels too. Because, theoretically, a larger muscle is stronger.

    2) maximal strength training in a caloric deficit can be dangerous because you don't have the gas to be hitting 5, 3 or 1rm lifts in a caloric deficit.


    3) as far as how much mule you lose, no one can tell you that. We can only say keep protein levels high, deficit minimal and you'll preserve most of the muscle ypu have.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
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    Hypertrophy based program utilizing progressive overload
  • stephxo1
    stephxo1 Posts: 191 Member
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    I'm following PHUL on a deficit and it's going ok. It focuses on 2 hypertrophy days and 2 power days working the entire body. Yes, my lifts might not be as optimal as on a bulk but I'm still lifting some good numbers. It's all about progression so as long as you're either increasing reps, sets or weight as you go along then you'll be doing ok whether in a deficit or not. Good luck. Oh and here's a link to the program.......

    https://www.muscleandstrength.com/workouts/phul-workout
  • JDBIsaacs
    JDBIsaacs Posts: 8 Member
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    Wow, ok have to do a bit of reading on these concepts. But I think I get what you guys are saying. To be honest I think my first step is to record what what exercises, reps and sets I'm doing with my trainer. I have an idea, but I don't know specifics.

    I'm ok with losing some strength and mass, but I just don't want to see a drastic drop in strength and mass. I guess I'm also going to have to wing it a bit. I'm taking all the precautions like keeping protein high (over180g a day). I might insist on 1 or 2 power sessions during the weeks tho because I think we're already getting the larger volume sets which the PHUL program suggests.

    On the point of a minimal deficit: I want to lose about 17lbs and I'm 20% body fat right now over the next 6 months. Is cutting at TDEE-20% too fast? Should I be aiming at -15% instead?

    @sarco59 Thanks for the advice and concern my friend. I have gotten 3 different opinions from 3 plastic surgeons. I have also been to a psychiatrist who has assessed my mental space and given me the all clear. I have been thinking about this procedure seriously for close to 2 years now and I'm finally at the point where I am ready to take that leap. The first 2 surgeons actually wanted to schedule the procedure ASAP but I always knew I wanted this to be part of a long term plan, which is why I'm going with the 3rd surgeon who has suggested I lose the weight first.

    As you say, if this takes closer to a year then I will allow for that, but I am certain that the gynaecomastia will remain even if I lost the weight because it runs in my family. My brother even used to self harm when he was younger to get out of PT where he would have to take his shirt off in front of the other kids, and he was not overweight. The reason I have taken my time is because I want this to be a lasting change.

    Thanks guys
  • JDBIsaacs
    JDBIsaacs Posts: 8 Member
    edited August 2015
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    Wow, ok have to do a bit of reading on these concepts. But I think I get what you guys are saying. To be honest I think my first step is to record what what exercises, reps and sets I'm doing with my trainer. I have an idea, but I don't know specifics.

    I'm ok with losing some strength and mass, but I just don't want to see a drastic drop in strength and mass. I guess I'm also going to have to wing it a bit. I'm taking all the precautions like keeping protein high (over180g a day). I might insist on 1 or 2 power sessions during the weeks tho because I think we're already getting the larger volume sets which the PHUL program suggests.

    On the point of a minimal deficit: I want to lose about 17lbs and I'm 20% body fat right now over the next 6 months. Is cutting at TDEE-20% too fast? This works out to about a pound per week. Should I be aiming at -15% instead?

    @sarco59 Thanks for the advice and concern my friend. I have gotten 3 different opinions from 3 plastic surgeons. I have also been to a psychiatrist who has assessed my mental space and given me the all clear. I have been thinking about this procedure seriously for close to 2 years now and I'm finally at the point where I am ready to take that leap. The first 2 surgeons actually wanted to schedule the procedure ASAP but I always knew I wanted this to be part of a long term plan, which is why I'm going with the 3rd surgeon who has suggested I lose the weight first.

    As you say, if this takes closer to a year then I will allow for that, but I am certain that the gynaecomastia will remain even if I lost the weight because it runs in my family. My brother even used to self harm when he was younger to get out of PT where he would have to take his shirt off in front of the other kids, and he was not overweight. The reason I have taken my time is because I want this to be a lasting change.

    Thanks guys

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