educating the noobs 101
workout_freak89
Posts: 354 Member
This is a post from the series which will attempt to adress those 1001 faq's every beginner wonders about at some point of time. Also included will be the common myths scaring and annoying the $h!t out of that cute innocent noob who just wants to workout in the most optimum way to get the best posiible results in the least possible time but gets muddled up in the tons of $h!tty info out there.
For today the topic of focus is-
How Long Should My Workout Time Be?
30, 45, 60 Minutes? Over An Hour?
please note we’re only looking at weight training workouts here (not cardio or anything else)
Is there any legitimate reason for why your workouts MUST last exactly 30 minutes or 45 minutes or 1 hour and not a second longer?
No, there isn’t. Not even a little.
What about all of those claims one keeps hearing for why everyone must NEVER exceed that time because your hormone levels will go berserk and cortisol will increase and testosterone will decrease???
That’s all meaningless crap you can ignore. Just take the time it does to complete your workout. Whatever it takes from 0-120 min. Or more.
Don't believe me?? good.
Trust ncbi. it doesn't lie.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3371329
For today the topic of focus is-
How Long Should My Workout Time Be?
30, 45, 60 Minutes? Over An Hour?
please note we’re only looking at weight training workouts here (not cardio or anything else)
Is there any legitimate reason for why your workouts MUST last exactly 30 minutes or 45 minutes or 1 hour and not a second longer?
No, there isn’t. Not even a little.
What about all of those claims one keeps hearing for why everyone must NEVER exceed that time because your hormone levels will go berserk and cortisol will increase and testosterone will decrease???
That’s all meaningless crap you can ignore. Just take the time it does to complete your workout. Whatever it takes from 0-120 min. Or more.
Don't believe me?? good.
Trust ncbi. it doesn't lie.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3371329
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I suspect the real problem with being a noob is that you have no idea what to do for a workout, so telling them "it takes as long as it takes" doesn't get them very far0
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Yeah, there are quite a few helpful newbie posts.
Especially read sexypants.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1080242/a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10012907/logging-accuracy-consistency-and-youre-probably-eating-more-than-you-think
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819925/the-basics-dont-complicate-it/p1
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/872212/youre-probably-eating-more-than-you-think/p1
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/833026/important-posts-to-read/p1
But I like that you're using PubMed as a reference.0 -
And info from the CDC & ACSM...
How much should I exercise?
"To maintain your weight: work your way up to 150 minutes of moderate-intensity aerobic activity, 75 minutes of vigorous-intensity aerobic activity, or an equivalent mix of the two each week."
http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/physical_activity/index.html
(The page explains moderate & vigorous.)
That's not much.
Go for a half-hour walk after dinner 5 nights a week. Or walk 15 minutes twice a day (the dog will love it).
If you're looking to lose weight, either exercise more (up to double those recommendations) or cut your intake & exercise moderately.
What exercise should I do?
#1 - Cardio ...
is the most effective at burning calories (bang for your buck).
You want to set realistic goals which are maybe a bit of a challenge, but attainable.
Don't set yourself up to fail by expecting to do an hour on the elliptical or run a marathon the first time you've tried to exercise in 10 years!
Start where you are.
If all you can do right now is walk to the end of the driveway & back, do that. Then rest up & do it again in an hour. And again the next hour. Before too long you'll be going around the block, then 2 blocks... You get the picture.
If you have access to a gym, start on the treadmill for 5 minutes. Next day, do 6. Then 7. (Or if you're feeling good, and ambitious, add 2 minutes.)
When you're up to about 30 minutes at 3-4 mph and a moderate (5-10 degree) incline, consider trying an elliptical. This will burn lots more calories... because it's harder. You're going back down to start at 5-10 minutes, and you're going to be tired. Slowly work back up to 30 minutes, more if you're happy with how you feel.
If your machine has preset programs, try the "fat burn" at first. Once that's no longer challenging, you could increase your speed or go to the "manual" program & increase the intensity. Try doing intervals: every 5 minutes, increase your speed or intensity for 30 seconds. Then work up to a minute, then decrease the time between the high-intensity bits.
In addition, try to work exercise into your daily life. Park further from the door when you go to work or shopping. Take one shirt at a time from the laundry to the bedroom.
#2 - Weightlifting ...
will build muscle, which uses more calories at rest and makes you look more slender & toned.
Ladies, no, you will not builk up & look grotesque unless you work VERY hard at it (and probably take drugs).
As you build muscle, you may notice that the scale stays the same even though you're losing inches & your clothes are looser. Muscle weighs more than fat, but takes less space.
Here on MFP, to get calorie credit for weightlifting go under cardio & search for "Strength training (weight lifting, weight training)". It's not much of a credit, but it's better than nothing (which is what you get if you enter the work under "strength training"), & it's easier than trying to find every exercise.
There are 3 goals or types of weight training.
Most people should start by building muscle.
After a month or so of that, you can add in building endurance.
Going for power is a more advanced technique, which I'll leave to the competitive weightlifters.
Free weights or machines?
Machines reduce the chance that you can do something wrong & injure yourself, don't take as much understanding of what you're doing, and target specific muscles or groups.
Free weights work more muscles in concert and allow for more exercises to be done in a smaller area, even at your home, but require learning how to do them correctly.
No matter which you're doing, you need to know the maximum amount you can lift, called the one-repetition maximum or 1RM.
For building muscle, you want to do 1 or 2 sets of 8-12 repetitions of a weight that's 70-85% of your 1RM.
For building endurance, do 1 or 2 sets of 15-20 repetitions of a weight that's 50-65% of your 1RM.
Either way, start low on both weight & reps and work up.
You should just be able to do the last 2-3 reps.
When it gets easy to do the maximum # of reps, add 5 pounds and go back to the minimum # of reps.
(From the American College of Sports Medicine's book "Resources for the Personal Trainer, 4th edition".)
Remember to work both sides of a joint (or the body) - if you're doing bicep curls, also do tricep extensions or dips. If you're doing quadricep extensions, also do hamstring curls. If you're doing abdominal curls, also do lower back extensions.0 -
workout_freak89 wrote: »What about all of those claims one keeps hearing for why everyone must NEVER exceed that time because your hormone levels will go berserk and cortisol will increase and testosterone will decrease???
That’s all meaningless crap you can ignore. Just take the time it does to complete your workout. Whatever it takes from 0-120 min. Or more.
Don't believe me?? good.
Trust ncbi. it doesn't lie.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3371329
NCBI doesn't lie, but you kinda twisted what it said. That study didn't involve long-duration workouts, it was a 50 minute workout, and half the sets were isolation exercises (which are arguably less catabolic than compound exercises). So any conclusions about short workouts don't necessarily apply to marathon sessions, where glycogen can nose-dive, which shoots up cortisol.
Besides, a single study never conclusively settles an issue, as you probably have heard.
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workout_freak89 wrote: »This is a post from the series which will attempt to adress those 1001 faq's every beginner wonders about at some point of time. Also included will be the common myths scaring and annoying the $h!t out of that cute innocent noob who just wants to workout in the most optimum way to get the best posiible results in the least possible time but gets muddled up in the tons of $h!tty info out there.
For today the topic of focus is-
How Long Should My Workout Time Be?
30, 45, 60 Minutes? Over An Hour?
please note we’re only looking at weight training workouts here (not cardio or anything else)
Is there any legitimate reason for why your workouts MUST last exactly 30 minutes or 45 minutes or 1 hour and not a second longer?
No, there isn’t. Not even a little.
What about all of those claims one keeps hearing for why everyone must NEVER exceed that time because your hormone levels will go berserk and cortisol will increase and testosterone will decrease???
That’s all meaningless crap you can ignore. Just take the time it does to complete your workout. Whatever it takes from 0-120 min. Or more.
Don't believe me?? good.
Trust ncbi. it doesn't lie.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3371329
TL;DR, but gold star for using better sources.0 -
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That was quite vague and not entirely helpful for noobs.0
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workout_freak89 wrote: »
As was stated above, it's not really good info. It's a single study doing isolation exercises. Not exactly applicable to most lifting programs since the foundation of them is compound lifts. The study is applicable for almost no one.0 -
I'm sorry, but I don't find it helpful at all. You adress one single thing that is most likely not relevant to people new to exercise.
One post where you start at the beginning and write something in a logical order rather than a "series" of random advices would be way more helpfull.0 -
workout_freak89 wrote: »Yeah, there are quite a few helpful newbie posts.
Especially read sexypants.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1080242/a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10012907/logging-accuracy-consistency-and-youre-probably-eating-more-than-you-think
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/819925/the-basics-dont-complicate-it/p1
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/872212/youre-probably-eating-more-than-you-think/p1
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/833026/important-posts-to-read/p1
But I like that you're using PubMed as a reference.
now that's an exhaustive list! thanks for posting
All of the "must read" posts stickied at the top of each section are a good starting point. Anyone looking for beginner information should check them out.
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workout_freak89 wrote: »workout_freak89 wrote: »
As was stated above, it's not really good info. It's a single study doing isolation exercises. Not exactly applicable to most lifting programs since the foundation of them is compound lifts. The study is applicable for almost no one.
as was replied to the above post, it is very much applicable because of the samr reasons.
the info is good without doubt, i might still agree on the topic selection not being good "enough"
You did reply and you obviously don't understand how compounds impact the CNS and hormones compared to isolation work. The reason we start out suggestion programs instead of telling people that workout length is "meaningless crap you can ignore", stems from the fact that these beginner programs have already taken into account the factors that lead to over training. Telling a noob to just lift for as long as it takes is slightly irresponsible because not all people follow a professionally written program.
Instead of posting a random study it would have been better to tell noobs how to pick an appropriate program for their experience and goals. After all, the quality programs are built for maximum results and recovery.0 -
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workout_freak89 wrote: »And info from the CDC & ACSM...
How much should I exercise?
"To maintain your weight: work your way up to 150 minutes of moderate-intensity aerobic activity, 75 minutes of vigorous-intensity aerobic activity, or an equivalent mix of the two each week."
http://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/physical_activity/index.html
(The page explains moderate & vigorous.)
That's not much.
Go for a half-hour walk after dinner 5 nights a week. Or walk 15 minutes twice a day (the dog will love it).
If you're looking to lose weight, either exercise more (up to double those recommendations) or cut your intake & exercise moderately.
What exercise should I do?
#1 - Cardio ...
is the most effective at burning calories (bang for your buck).
You want to set realistic goals which are maybe a bit of a challenge, but attainable.
Don't set yourself up to fail by expecting to do an hour on the elliptical or run a marathon the first time you've tried to exercise in 10 years!
Start where you are.
If all you can do right now is walk to the end of the driveway & back, do that. Then rest up & do it again in an hour. And again the next hour. Before too long you'll be going around the block, then 2 blocks... You get the picture.
If you have access to a gym, start on the treadmill for 5 minutes. Next day, do 6. Then 7. (Or if you're feeling good, and ambitious, add 2 minutes.)
When you're up to about 30 minutes at 3-4 mph and a moderate (5-10 degree) incline, consider trying an elliptical. This will burn lots more calories... because it's harder. You're going back down to start at 5-10 minutes, and you're going to be tired. Slowly work back up to 30 minutes, more if you're happy with how you feel.
If your machine has preset programs, try the "fat burn" at first. Once that's no longer challenging, you could increase your speed or go to the "manual" program & increase the intensity. Try doing intervals: every 5 minutes, increase your speed or intensity for 30 seconds. Then work up to a minute, then decrease the time between the high-intensity bits.
In addition, try to work exercise into your daily life. Park further from the door when you go to work or shopping. Take one shirt at a time from the laundry to the bedroom.
#2 - Weightlifting ...
will build muscle, which uses more calories at rest and makes you look more slender & toned.
Ladies, no, you will not builk up & look grotesque unless you work VERY hard at it (and probably take drugs).
As you build muscle, you may notice that the scale stays the same even though you're losing inches & your clothes are looser. Muscle weighs more than fat, but takes less space.
Here on MFP, to get calorie credit for weightlifting go under cardio & search for "Strength training (weight lifting, weight training)". It's not much of a credit, but it's better than nothing (which is what you get if you enter the work under "strength training"), & it's easier than trying to find every exercise.
There are 3 goals or types of weight training.
Most people should start by building muscle.
After a month or so of that, you can add in building endurance.
Going for power is a more advanced technique, which I'll leave to the competitive weightlifters.
Free weights or machines?
Machines reduce the chance that you can do something wrong & injure yourself, don't take as much understanding of what you're doing, and target specific muscles or groups.
Free weights work more muscles in concert and allow for more exercises to be done in a smaller area, even at your home, but require learning how to do them correctly.
No matter which you're doing, you need to know the maximum amount you can lift, called the one-repetition maximum or 1RM.
For building muscle, you want to do 1 or 2 sets of 8-12 repetitions of a weight that's 70-85% of your 1RM.
For building endurance, do 1 or 2 sets of 15-20 repetitions of a weight that's 50-65% of your 1RM.
Either way, start low on both weight & reps and work up.
You should just be able to do the last 2-3 reps.
When it gets easy to do the maximum # of reps, add 5 pounds and go back to the minimum # of reps.
(From the American College of Sports Medicine's book "Resources for the Personal Trainer, 4th edition".)
Remember to work both sides of a joint (or the body) - if you're doing bicep curls, also do tricep extensions or dips. If you're doing quadricep extensions, also do hamstring curls. If you're doing abdominal curls, also do lower back extensions.
just went through the weight lifting portion...a ton of concise info there..! good read
concise?0 -
workout_freak89 wrote: »5. pro advice is not alwayz available, besides not always the . Every mfp user with > 1000 posts thinks he's a pro0
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workout_freak89 wrote: »workout_freak89 wrote: »workout_freak89 wrote: »
As was stated above, it's not really good info. It's a single study doing isolation exercises. Not exactly applicable to most lifting programs since the foundation of them is compound lifts. The study is applicable for almost no one.
as was replied to the above post, it is very much applicable because of the samr reasons.
the info is good without doubt, i might still agree on the topic selection not being good "enough"
You did reply and you obviously don't understand how compounds impact the CNS and hormones compared to isolation work. The reason we start out suggestion programs instead of telling people that workout length is "meaningless crap you can ignore", stems from the fact that these beginner programs have already taken into account the factors that lead to over training. Telling a noob to just lift for as long as it takes is slightly irresponsible because not all people follow a professionally written program.
Instead of posting a random study it would have been better to tell noobs how to pick an appropriate program for their experience and goals. After all, the quality programs are built for maximum results and recovery.
1. it's not workout time but frequency of exercising the same muscle and the volume of training that impact the CNS ( more specifically ANS).
2.Over training which you seem to be pointing at happens by screwing with the above two parameters
3.a noob takes 50 min Vs another noober(?) noob who takes 80 for the same workout. Other than the obvious intensity difference there is nothing like cortisol causing doom for the latter (or former) noob that's ever gonna happen.
4. reason why novice programs don't have isolations is cz they don't need it. progression is good without them and not because isolations somehow screw up the T levels or don't raise it
5. pro advice is not alwayz available, besides not always the . Every mfp user with > 1000 posts thinks he's a pro
1. No, it's volume.
2. Your initial post is about over training, you just aren't naming it.
3. You're assuming all noobs do the same workout. They don't even all follow a program. Many of them just go in and do random things.
4. Novice programs are built to improve strength, build movement patterns, activate stabilizers, and correct muscle imbalances. They skip isolation work because that would defeat the purpose of correcting imbalances.
5. You don't even have 1,000 posts and you think you are a pro.0 -
OP I would love to know more about your personal research into the fast food industry study that you reference on your website. Specifically the Columbia University and UC Berkeley that was published in the National Bureau of Economic Research in 2009. Link please?0
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