Reverse dieting

wickmclean
wickmclean Posts: 7 Member
edited November 23 in Health and Weight Loss
I think I am at a point where it would make sense to reverse diet. I have hit a 4 month weight loss plateau after 13 prior months of steady weight loss, and my daily caloric intake is hovering around my BMR according most internet formulas. I crossfit 4x a week and I am not getting significantly stronger or significantly more lean.
My questions are (1) is this actually a good time to reverse diet; (2) what should I expect to see in regards to muscle gain (if any) and fat loss during these next few weeks; (3) is there anything else I should know? Thanks.

Replies

  • Liftng4Lis
    Liftng4Lis Posts: 15,151 Member
    First, how are you calculating your consumption?
  • wickmclean
    wickmclean Posts: 7 Member
    I am calculating the calories I consume using this app (MyFitnessPal).
    I calculated my BMR using this website's BMR calculator, which apparently uses the Mifflin - St. Jeor equations. I know that there are other ways to calculate BMR, including doing it in a lab, but I have not used those other methods.
  • mom2my4boys
    mom2my4boys Posts: 148 Member
    In, for the responses you get. (I'm in a similar situation except I've been in deficit for 2yrs)
  • Liftng4Lis
    Liftng4Lis Posts: 15,151 Member
    wickmclean wrote: »
    I am calculating the calories I consume using this app (MyFitnessPal).
    I calculated my BMR using this website's BMR calculator, which apparently uses the Mifflin - St. Jeor equations. I know that there are other ways to calculate BMR, including doing it in a lab, but I have not used those other methods.

    I mean are you using a food scale?
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    Liftng4Lis wrote: »
    wickmclean wrote: »
    I am calculating the calories I consume using this app (MyFitnessPal).
    I calculated my BMR using this website's BMR calculator, which apparently uses the Mifflin - St. Jeor equations. I know that there are other ways to calculate BMR, including doing it in a lab, but I have not used those other methods.

    I mean are you using a food scale?

    This is the real question
  • NotGnarly
    NotGnarly Posts: 137 Member
    Check out the "eat more to weigh less/em2wl". I had a plateau for several months while eating at a deficit and wasn't losing. I ate at maintenance (2600ish calories) for ten days, then reduced by 500 and now the scale is moving again and I'm able to eat more than when I hit my plateau.

    Definitely give it a try. Some people increase by 100 cals a day but I took the "rip the bandaid off" approach. You might find that you can eat more and lose weight. I'm way happier eat 2100ish cals and still losing.
  • arb037
    arb037 Posts: 203 Member
    edited August 2015
    What are your stats? Age? Height? Weight? Bf% BMR? TDEE? And how many calories are you eating currently? And for how long have you been in a deficit?
    There is a lot of myth out there about how many calories to eat etc. eapecially in terms of eating below your BMR which there is NO study or clinical research to support it.
    Lyle Mcdonald has done some interesting books and research on fat loss, the body can metabolize 31 calories per LBS of fat in our body, per day. So if a male has 30 lbs of fat his body can support a 930 calorie deficit before it begins to breakdown LBM ( talking per day)
    http://forums.lylemcdonald.com/showthread.php?t=11223
    So you can def choose to reverse diet, but probably can reduce calories as well to continue fat loss.
  • wickmclean
    wickmclean Posts: 7 Member
    edited August 2015
    Yes, I am using a food scale. My calories are consistent and accurate, and slightly above BMR (100-300 above per day)
  • Liftng4Lis
    Liftng4Lis Posts: 15,151 Member
    wickmclean wrote: »
    Yes, I am using a food scale. My calories are consistent and accurate, and slightly above BMR (100-300 above per day)

    Can you open your diary?
  • atypicalsmith
    atypicalsmith Posts: 2,742 Member
    Does reverse dieting mean you now want to gain weight?
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    What are your goals with this? To take a diet break? Move to maintenance for awhile?
  • wickmclean
    wickmclean Posts: 7 Member
    My goal is to achieve what reverse dieting claims to do, which is to first (1) find out what my "true" maintenance calories are and then (2) begin losing weight from the higher baseline. I am no longer losing fat at BMR +~200.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    wickmclean wrote: »
    My goal is to achieve what reverse dieting claims to do, which is to first (1) find out what my "true" maintenance calories are and then (2) begin losing weight from the higher baseline. I am no longer losing fat at BMR +~200.

    So do it. You'll still have to shave off 500 calories or so once you find your TDEE to start losing again. And about the muscle gains you asked about, you're still not going to be seeing much as you will be in a deficit for a little, then maintenance shortly, then a deficit again to lose.
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
    edited August 2015
    wickmclean wrote: »
    My goal is to achieve what reverse dieting claims to do, which is to first (1) find out what my "true" maintenance calories are and then (2) begin losing weight from the higher baseline. I am no longer losing fat at BMR +~200.

    Something doesn't seem right here. If you are truly eating at BMR plus 200, you would be losing weight because that is below your TDEE, which is the operative number. Unless you have some underlying medical condition, you are clearly eating more than you realize-this can unconsciously happen from underestimating food intake and/or overestimating calories burned. In fact, it's the most common reason people stop losing weight.

    You say you weigh your food. Do you do your own research to make sure your selections are accurate?

    What about exercise calories? Do you count those and, if so, where do you get the burns from?

    If you open your diary we might be able to offer more specific help.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    wickmclean wrote: »
    My goal is to achieve what reverse dieting claims to do, which is to first (1) find out what my "true" maintenance calories are and then (2) begin losing weight from the higher baseline. I am no longer losing fat at BMR +~200.

    Something doesn't seem right here. If you are truly eating at BMR plus 200, you would be losing weight because that is below your TDEE, which is the operative number. Unless you have some underlying medical condition, you are clearly eating more than you realize-this can unconsciously happen from underestimating food intake and/or overestimating calories burned. In fact, it's the most common reason people stop losing weight.

    You say you weigh your food. Do you do your own research to make sure your selections are accurate?

    What about exercise calories? Do you count those and, if so, where do you get the burns from?

    If you open your diary we might be able to offer more specific help.

    Also this.
  • wickmclean
    wickmclean Posts: 7 Member
    edited August 2015
    Calculated BMR and actual TDEE merge as diets progress. Bodybuilders invented reverse dieting to counter this phenomenon. I am experiencing it, unless there is something outside of diet and exercise I am missing (I am meticulous about counting calories). I probably should have provided a link that explains the concept in depth. Here you go: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reverse-dieting-4-reasons-your-best-diet-might-be-reverse-diet.html
    Now, does anyone who has experience with reverse dieting have insight into my situation? Thanks!
  • BWBTrish
    BWBTrish Posts: 2,817 Member
    Posted it somewhere before...seems i am doing this lol
    But like the others say

    open your diary
    It really looks like your calculations are off somewhere.
  • arb037
    arb037 Posts: 203 Member
    Yes I have done it, it works.
    Start adding calories back in to your daily diet. say 200.. eat that amount for 7-10 days, and watch your weight to see what happens.. if you stay the same, increase another 100-200 calories and eat at that level for 7-10 days.. rinse and repeat until you gain .5-1-2 lbs over 7-10 days.. then you know your true TDEE..

    Understand if you have been in a deficit for some time your BMR and TDEE BOTH have reduced. what your BMR is when you started is no longer valid, as you have lost weight. Both figures are moving targets.

    I would def recommend reading up some of Lyle McDonalds literature on rapid fat loss...
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/size-of-deficit-and-muscle-catabolism-qa.html/

    http://www.forums.lylemcdonald.com/
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    wickmclean wrote: »
    Calculated BMR and actual TDEE merge as diets progress. Bodybuilders invented reverse dieting to counter this phenomenon. I am experiencing it, unless there is something outside of diet and exercise I am missing (I am meticulous about counting calories). I probably should have provided a link that explains the concept in depth. Here you go: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reverse-dieting-4-reasons-your-best-diet-might-be-reverse-diet.html
    Now, does anyone who has experience with reverse dieting have insight into my situation? Thanks!

    No they don't your BMR can never meet your TDEE unless you are in a coma

    Reverse dieting has it's place

    But my bet is on inaccuracy in your logging ..unconscious, frustrating, irritating cos you know you're doing everything right ...only you're not

    Either food logging is off, exercise estimation is off...my money is on both
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    edited August 2015
    You have no consistency

    ...you're logging major fluctuations in your weight over 2 weeks which means you're measuring water weight changes probably due to sodium or changes in exercise

    If you actually want help you could choose to open your diary or read http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1296011/calorie-counting-101/p1

    If you actually want to just focus on reverse dieting then I think you're fooling yourself horribly ...but best of luck with that
  • NotGnarly
    NotGnarly Posts: 137 Member
    wickmclean wrote: »
    Calculated BMR and actual TDEE merge as diets progress. Bodybuilders invented reverse dieting to counter this phenomenon. I am experiencing it, unless there is something outside of diet and exercise I am missing (I am meticulous about counting calories). I probably should have provided a link that explains the concept in depth. Here you go: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reverse-dieting-4-reasons-your-best-diet-might-be-reverse-diet.html
    Now, does anyone who has experience with reverse dieting have insight into my situation? Thanks!
    I read that article months after my plateau had started. Reverse dieting/em2wl work but of course the thought of upping cals to lose more weight scares people. If I were still eating 1500 cals or less and someone questioned my accuracy while tracking, I probably would of ripped their head off lol. Thankfully since I started eating more, I'm no longer hangry. My fitness and strength have improved.

    You know your body way better than anyone else and the fact that you have lost a good amount of weight shows that you are more than likely good at tracking your foods with accuracy. My body put the breaks on my weight loss for months. While the main theme in these forums is to always advise people to reduce their cals by even more, it's not always the best thing.

    I'm down 50 pounds from my highest weight and I did that with vlcd, definitely would not recommend. Legs were mushy and so were arms. Tried to eat 1200 cals and would gain. Some people don't believe in BMR lowering but I know with my body it does.

    Definitely try a reset and then reduce by 500 cals, that should work. Also during my reset I still tracked my cals. I honestly wish I would of done this years ago. Instead of starving and being hangry. I think hanger is the main reason why the most straight forward non drama threads turn sour. Good luck OP. *sorry for novel*
  • LivingtheLeanDream
    LivingtheLeanDream Posts: 13,342 Member
    edited August 2015
    Reverse dieting could work for you if you are at the weight you want to be and want to maintain....I have read about it and for some it has worked.

    I tried it for several months myself, more so to see if I could put my TDEE up more, but the reality was I couldn't! I can't eat more than 2200 gross cals a day if I want to maintain my weight.
  • Mycophilia
    Mycophilia Posts: 1,225 Member
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/another-look-at-metabolic-damage.html/ You might want to read this OP.
  • arb037
    arb037 Posts: 203 Member
    No such thing as "metabolic damage", that is BS the nutrition industry pushed on us for years.
    Look up " adaptive thermogenesis"

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673773/
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