Newbie looking for cutting/bulking advice
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newrider43
Posts: 7 Member
I am 6' 3", 210 pounds,49 years old. I would roughly estimate my body fat at 20%.( I have ordered a caliper so I can better guestimate my BF).
I am new to strength training and bodybuilding so at this point my primary focus is fat loss. I am currently monitoring my macros and eating at a calorie deficit of 500 day and do 5x5 training 3 times a week.
My question is when should I start bulking? I have read at around 15% fat so I am wondering if 5 months of cutting is healthy. And should I continue my current program or alter it in any way.
I am new to strength training and bodybuilding so at this point my primary focus is fat loss. I am currently monitoring my macros and eating at a calorie deficit of 500 day and do 5x5 training 3 times a week.
My question is when should I start bulking? I have read at around 15% fat so I am wondering if 5 months of cutting is healthy. And should I continue my current program or alter it in any way.
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Replies
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I wouldn't worry about when to start bulking.coolheatpete wrote: »My question is when should I start bulking? I have read at around 15% fat so I am wondering if 5 months of cutting is healthy. And should I continue my current program or alter it in any way.
Nothing wrong with cutting for 5 months. Concentrate on your lifting form and progress. Assuming you are doing the Strong Lifts variety of 5x5, follow the stall, deload protocol as written, switching to 3x5 on individual lifts as needed, then 1x5 and then look at different programs. Also consider getting micro/fractional plates for OHP, that lift is usually the first to stall, adding less than 5 lbs allows prolonged progression.
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Cutting is basically the same as weightloss. People sometimes eat at a deficit for over a year when losing weight.
Most important thing is to eat enough protein to maintain existing muscle.0 -
Ok thank you. There is so much to learn and its great to have access to such a knowledgeable group of people.
I only have basic knowledge of 5x5 and will be reading more on it in the coming days.
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15% is usually around the high point (from what I have seen).0
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Get between 10-15%bf before you bulk back up, if you aim is to gain size, dont go for the 5x5 approach, on pressing movements go for 6-10 range, isolation excercices 8-15, on your cut, keep carbs low, protein and fat high, bulking, high carbs high protein low fat, and you need to be hitting the gym more than 3 days, aim for 5 days at least0
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^no need for high fat on a cut or high protein and low fat on a bulk.
OP said he is new to strength training so 5x5 3x week with no/minimal isolation work is fine.
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High fat on a cut is replacing your low carb intake,low fat on a bulk as your carbs should be high which will limit fat stores, and not high protein on a bulk...0
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harryfrankham1 wrote: »High fat on a cut is replacing your low carb intake,low fat on a bulk as your carbs should be high which will limit fat stores, and not high protein on a bulk... Where do you find this kind of *kitten*?
Your messing with us right..... because your spouting psuedo science from the 60's.
The only thing that causes fat gains are eating calories in excess of your TDEE, regardless if they are from fat, protein or carbs.
And there are tons of us on a moderate to high carb diet on a cut and have no issue cutting.
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harryfrankham1 wrote: »High fat on a cut is replacing your low carb intake,low fat on a bulk as your carbs should be high which will limit fat stores, and not high protein on a bulk...
you need to take the bro science to the main forums and exit this one, seriously.0 -
@harryfrankham1 = n=1 who doesn't even science.
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coolheatpete wrote: »I am 6' 3", 210 pounds,49 years old. I would roughly estimate my body fat at 20%.( I have ordered a caliper so I can better guestimate my BF).
I am new to strength training and bodybuilding so at this point my primary focus is fat loss. I am currently monitoring my macros and eating at a calorie deficit of 500 day and do 5x5 training 3 times a week.
My question is when should I start bulking? I have read at around 15% fat so I am wondering if 5 months of cutting is healthy. And should I continue my current program or alter it in any way.
OP - I wouldn't recommend cutting for 20 weeks straight. 12 weeks seems to be the happy medium with 16 weeks being the highest end. (assuming 500/day calorie deficit)
5x5 is a proven method to help gain strength and get some newbie muscle gains even in a caloric deficit, short term only.0 -
harryfrankham1 wrote: »When you actually have the results physically to back your bs up, get back to me. Have no clue why im posting on a forums where idiots who clearly dont even lift try to preach from what theyve researched "online"
So what you are saying is that you have nothing to back up your claims?0 -
harryfrankham1 wrote: »Have no clue why im posting on a forums where idiots who clearly dont even lift try to preach from what theyve researched "online"
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Le sigh.harryfrankham1 wrote: »When you actually have the results physically to back your bs up, get back to me. Have no clue why im posting on a forums where idiots who clearly dont even lift try to preach from what theyve researched "online"
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Cutting is basically the same as weightloss. People sometimes eat at a deficit for over a year when losing weight.
Most important thing is to eat enough protein to maintain existing muscle.
It's not exactly the same thing. Cutting is intent to lose purely body fat, without muscle loss. People on a general weight loss goal don't necessarily care what the weight is. If you goal is to lose weight, you just drop your cals. If you do this without taking other measures on a cut, you will likely lose a big chunk of the muscle you just spent months building.
To cut properly, you need to:
-Keep a high protein intake (technically the same amount of protein you were consuming on your bulk, but now that you are in a calorie deficit it crowds out other macros and effectively you will intake a higher % of your calories from protein).
-Consistently stimulate muscles with weight training, essentially telling your body it is not allowed to thrift muscle for calories and needs to use fat reserves. This is probably the most important part of cutting. You HAVE to get in the gym to retain the muscle you built, or your body will happily burn it off to decrease your BMR in it's ongoing quest to become as calorie efficient as possible and maximize your "survival".
-Calculate a calorie deficit that puts you in a max weight loss goal of 0.5lbs per week, and not any more. This is about the max rate you can lose and still keep all the gainz you worked for.
-Stop before you hit 10-12% bodyfat; past here, p-ratio starts to heavily favor dropping muscle. The only people who can drop past here without a lot of muscle loss are people using PEDs0 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »Cutting is basically the same as weightloss. People sometimes eat at a deficit for over a year when losing weight.
Most important thing is to eat enough protein to maintain existing muscle.
It's not exactly the same thing. Cutting is intent to lose purely body fat, without muscle loss. People on a general weight loss goal don't necessarily care what the weight is. If you goal is to lose weight, you just drop your cals. If you do this without taking other measures on a cut, you will likely lose a big chunk of the muscle you just spent months building.
To cut properly, you need to:
-Keep a high protein intake (technically the same amount of protein you were consuming on your bulk, but now that you are in a calorie deficit it crowds out other macros and effectively you will intake a higher % of your calories from protein).
-Consistently stimulate muscles with weight training, essentially telling your body it is not allowed to thrift muscle for calories and needs to use fat reserves. This is probably the most important part of cutting. You HAVE to get in the gym to retain the muscle you built, or your body will happily burn it off to decrease your BMR in it's ongoing quest to become as calorie efficient as possible and maximize your "survival".
-Calculate a calorie deficit that puts you in a max weight loss goal of 0.5lbs per week, and not any more. This is about the max rate you can lose and still keep all the gainz you worked for.
-Stop before you hit 10-12% bodyfat; past here, p-ratio starts to heavily favor dropping muscle. The only people who can drop past here without a lot of muscle loss are people using PEDs
Two points of semantics. You don't have to get to the gym. Any type of resistance based training will help preserve lean body mass. You just need a way to continuously break down the muscle fiber so the rebuild up. And HIIT has been proven to be effective. Regarding the .5 lbs per week... I will highly doubt you will find studies to suggest that going more than that will adversely affect results. Even people like Alan Aragon would suggest a 20% deficit can be ok if training and protein is in place.0 -
harryfrankham1 wrote: »When you actually have the results physically to back your bs up, get back to me. Have no clue why im posting on a forums where idiots who clearly dont even lift try to preach from what theyve researched "online"
1. If that's your real avatar and you're only 21 you're not natural.
2. I feel sorry for you if that really is your body at 21, you haven't aged very well.
3. Bro-science doesn't apply to naturals....sorry Bro.......
Eat CLEN TREN hard-2 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »Cutting is basically the same as weightloss. People sometimes eat at a deficit for over a year when losing weight.
Most important thing is to eat enough protein to maintain existing muscle.
It's not exactly the same thing. Cutting is intent to lose purely body fat, without muscle loss. People on a general weight loss goal don't necessarily care what the weight is. If you goal is to lose weight, you just drop your cals. If you do this without taking other measures on a cut, you will likely lose a big chunk of the muscle you just spent months building.
To cut properly, you need to:
-Keep a high protein intake (technically the same amount of protein you were consuming on your bulk, but now that you are in a calorie deficit it crowds out other macros and effectively you will intake a higher % of your calories from protein).
-Consistently stimulate muscles with weight training, essentially telling your body it is not allowed to thrift muscle for calories and needs to use fat reserves. This is probably the most important part of cutting. You HAVE to get in the gym to retain the muscle you built, or your body will happily burn it off to decrease your BMR in it's ongoing quest to become as calorie efficient as possible and maximize your "survival".
-Calculate a calorie deficit that puts you in a max weight loss goal of 0.5lbs per week, and not any more. This is about the max rate you can lose and still keep all the gainz you worked for.
-Stop before you hit 10-12% bodyfat; past here, p-ratio starts to heavily favor dropping muscle. The only people who can drop past here without a lot of muscle loss are people using PEDs
One other semantical point - the body is simply not efficient enough to lose SOLELY fat and ZERO muscle. That's not how it works.
Clearly, the intent is to minimize lean mass loss, but that doesn't necessarily differentiate 'cutting' from 'weight loss' - at least on these forums and others I belong to it's highly encouraged to incorporate some sort of resistance training to those even with significant amounts of weight to lose in order to minimize lean mass loss.0 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »Cutting is basically the same as weightloss. People sometimes eat at a deficit for over a year when losing weight.
Most important thing is to eat enough protein to maintain existing muscle.
It's not exactly the same thing. Cutting is intent to lose purely body fat, without muscle loss. People on a general weight loss goal don't necessarily care what the weight is. If you goal is to lose weight, you just drop your cals. If you do this without taking other measures on a cut, you will likely lose a big chunk of the muscle you just spent months building.
To cut properly, you need to:
-Keep a high protein intake (technically the same amount of protein you were consuming on your bulk, but now that you are in a calorie deficit it crowds out other macros and effectively you will intake a higher % of your calories from protein).
-Consistently stimulate muscles with weight training, essentially telling your body it is not allowed to thrift muscle for calories and needs to use fat reserves. This is probably the most important part of cutting. You HAVE to get in the gym to retain the muscle you built, or your body will happily burn it off to decrease your BMR in it's ongoing quest to become as calorie efficient as possible and maximize your "survival".
-Calculate a calorie deficit that puts you in a max weight loss goal of 0.5lbs per week, and not any more. This is about the max rate you can lose and still keep all the gainz you worked for.
-Stop before you hit 10-12% bodyfat; past here, p-ratio starts to heavily favor dropping muscle. The only people who can drop past here without a lot of muscle loss are people using PEDs
Two points of semantics. You don't have to get to the gym. Any type of resistance based training will help preserve lean body mass. You just need a way to continuously break down the muscle fiber so the rebuild up. And HIIT has been proven to be effective. Regarding the .5 lbs per week... I will highly doubt you will find studies to suggest that going more than that will adversely affect results. Even people like Alan Aragon would suggest a 20% deficit can be ok if training and protein is in place.
HIIT is great for fat loss, sure. It's not going to help preserve your muscle though.
Regarding the resistance, no it doesn't have to be in a gym, but it needs to be roughly the same weight you were using before. You decrease your volume a bit, maybe 10-15% less than your normal workouts, but the weights need to stay the same, and you honestly should be trying to still keep achieving progressive overload. You are signaling through an outside stimulus that your body is going to be required to keep lifting these heavy loads, and it will need to preserve lean body mass to do so.
I think a 20% deficit might be ok a higher bodyfat levels, but for somebody in the leaner category looking to get even leaner (sub 15% for males) it might not be appropriate anymore. For OP, 20% deficit at his level is probably ok, yes. I think it would be wise to revise goals as bodyfat drops and p-ratio favorability shifts.0 -
harryfrankham1 wrote: »High fat on a cut is replacing your low carb intake,low fat on a bulk as your carbs should be high which will limit fat stores, and not high protein on a bulk...
yea, brah, don't listen to random internet advice, but believe the random internet poster who can post any picture they want as their profile picture...completely, logical...
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