Difficulty with deadlift due to chronic lower back pain - is Romanian deadlift safer?

Yoyo_Fitness
Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
hi there, just started working with a 45 lbs bar doing a 5x5 program, but I often have a problem doing deadlift. I could do it few times, but not sure if it is a good idea to progress with the increase of the weight.

I read that it may be better to start with Romanian deadlift using the safety bar inside the cage, work on building more muscles on your lower back, then try again with deadlift?

Thank you!

Replies

  • Sean_TheITGuy
    Sean_TheITGuy Posts: 67 Member
    Safety bar inside cage. Are you referring to a smith machine type thing, or a special bar inside a squat rack?

    Anything that uses a machine to guide your motions isn't going to help with a bad back, because it doesn't encourage precise form, and you won't recruit your stabilizers, just your big movers. That's actually a cause of bad back as you get stronger big muscles while the little ones stay weak. First time you try to move a couch, twinge, and there you are with a blown back.

    If I'm not imagining what you describe properly and you're referring to some sort of free bar inside a cage designed to catch you if you fail, then that's fine. The main thing to do with back considerations is to start off lighter than you think, concentrate on proper form, and recruit those muscles lagging behind to strengthen your whole core.
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    Depending on your build, a sumo style deadlift might be easier on the back.
  • IsaackGMOON
    IsaackGMOON Posts: 3,358 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Depending on your build, a sumo style deadlift might be easier on the back.

    +1

    OP it'd be worth trying different deadlift variations to see which one has the least strain on your lower back.

    A sumo deadlift might be good, it doesn't use as much of your back compared to a conventional DL.

    I think it'd be worth you posting a form video too, just to see if there is anything wrong.

    I'm also doing a 5x5 program (ICF 5x5) and I switched from conventional DL's to sumo.
  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    Sean_TheITGuy wrote: »
    Safety bar inside cage. Are you referring to a smith machine type thing, or a special bar inside a squat rack?

    Anything that uses a machine to guide your motions isn't going to help with a bad back, because it doesn't encourage precise form, and you won't recruit your stabilizers, just your big movers. That's actually a cause of bad back as you get stronger big muscles while the little ones stay weak. First time you try to move a couch, twinge, and there you are with a blown back.

    If I'm not imagining what you describe properly and you're referring to some sort of free bar inside a cage designed to catch you if you fail, then that's fine. The main thing to do with back considerations is to start off lighter than you think, concentrate on proper form, and recruit those muscles lagging behind to strengthen your whole core.

    hi! thank you for the comment, I have a sexy yellow power rack from Powertech like this: http://www.powertecfitness.com/p-31-workbench-power-rack-wb-pr14.aspx YES i am referring to those hanging bars inside the cage (in this yellow cage, they are the silver bars attached to the 7th holes from the bottom, sorry I didn't know how to explain!). it seems that the pain comes back when my back is bent closer to parallel to the floor..... starting off higher than the floor is the only way to do it without much pain.

    yeah I am working on the whole core with other exercises like mad, let's see how it goes!!!


  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Depending on your build, a sumo style deadlift might be easier on the back.

    I only tried sumo squat - ok I will look into that, thank you very much :)
  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    IsaackGMOON wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Depending on your build, a sumo style deadlift might be easier on the back.

    +1

    OP it'd be worth trying different deadlift variations to see which one has the least strain on your lower back.

    A sumo deadlift might be good, it doesn't use as much of your back compared to a conventional DL.

    I think it'd be worth you posting a form video too, just to see if there is anything wrong.

    I'm also doing a 5x5 program (ICF 5x5) and I switched from conventional DL's to sumo.

    Thank youuuuuuu! so far anything to start the motion way above the floor seems to help! but I will certainly look into other variations!

    yeah I recently posted a video on my squat form for my friends on IG recently, it was very helpful to get some tips! I am still new to the Olympic bar and I really wanna make sure that I nail the form before moving onto heavier stuff. it is hard but I love it!!!!

    oh cool, 5x5 is awesome! but I am still working with light weights... soon I will be squashed and destroyed :sweat_smile:
  • piperdown44
    piperdown44 Posts: 958 Member
    When you started were did you have the bar elevated on blocks? If not, that might be why it works in the cage. A deadlift is designed to start at the height of the bar and the plates. If you're just using the bar you'd need blocks otherwise keep using the cage.

    http://www.nerdfitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/deadlift_boxes.jpg
  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    piperdown44 wrote: »
    When you started were did you have the bar elevated on blocks? If not, that might be why it works in the cage. A deadlift is designed to start at the height of the bar and the plates. If you're just using the bar you'd need blocks otherwise keep using the cage.

    http://www.nerdfitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/deadlift_boxes.jpg

    hey, I placed the bar on my dumbbells (Powerblock) which have some height (7-8 inches?) - there is no way I can lift the Olympic bar directly on the floor nor start with 20lbs plates attached to it! I am about to try the lift again with the same setting, this time 50 lbs. let's see if my back screams!

    Thank you for the comment! :)

  • whmscll
    whmscll Posts: 2,254 Member
    Are you using perfect form for your deadlift? If not, you will feel it in your lower back. I have back issues and just started lifting with a trainer. If I am using perfect form I can deadlift 75 pounds (so far) with no problem. If my form is off I have to go ice/apply heat to my back after because I definitely feel the strain.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    edited August 2015
    if you do Romanians, make sure you're using light enough weight and using proper form...many people tend to have more issues with a RDL due to the tendency to round the back rather than hinge at the hips.

    do you have access to a hex bar? that would be my recommendation...or trying sumo.

    I also think your issue may be related to starting with the bar too low due to not using plates...in that case I would adjust the safety bars in the cage to mirror the bar height of using a plate and see how that goes.
  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    whmscll wrote: »
    Are you using perfect form for your deadlift? If not, you will feel it in your lower back. I have back issues and just started lifting with a trainer. If I am using perfect form I can deadlift 75 pounds (so far) with no problem. If my form is off I have to go ice/apply heat to my back after because I definitely feel the strain.

    Hi! just finished my workout and I tried lifting the bar alone from the floor (well, on some blocks). I did watch few videos and revised the form again - you know what, NO PAIN! one tip which helped me was, try not to lift it, but rather, imagine to push the floors as if you are doing the leg push or something.... AND! it felt so easy so I added 5x5 Romanian deadlifting after that as well!

    Just hope that I can progress with the weight now!!! yes you are so right, without the perfect form, you just hurt yourself! Thank you for the comment xo
  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    if you do Romanians, make sure you're using light enough weight and using proper form...many people tend to have more issues with a RDL due to the tendency to round the back rather than hinge at the hips.

    do you have access to a hex bar? that would be my recommendation...or trying sumo.

    I also think your issue may be related to starting with the bar too low due to not using plates...in that case I would adjust the safety bars in the cage to mirror the bar height of using a plate and see how that goes.

    hey! today I was so excited that I could do the normal deadlift, I didn't do sumo! hahaha. adjusted my forms and voila, it was fine! no I do this at my home gym, have a power rack and Olympic bar (45lbs), I have no hex bar unfortunatley. it corrects your form automatically right? is it worth getting?

    so much to learn with the bar! not that easy! I will practice a bit more with the bar alone for a week, then progress slowly.... thank you for commenting!
  • kozykondition1
    kozykondition1 Posts: 45 Member
    I suggest placing the bar on cinder blocks or anything that will raise it to the height of a normal Olympic plate. If you are lifting just the bar off of the ground, then you are doing a deficit deadlift. If you are doing it in a power rack, then you are doing a rack pull. Deficit deadlifts put extra pressure on your lower back. Rack pulls do not engage as many muscles as normal deadlifts.

    Keep up the good work!
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    If you're having trouble with Conventional Deadlift then I don't think an RDL or SLDL will be any better. There is actually a high degree of hip flexion that requires hip and lumbar extension to bring yourself back-up. I think you need to identify what is wrong with your back and why you're having these issues.

    It's possible that it's just your form.

    It's possible that you need to strengthen your muscles individually first and then start the compound lifts, not everybody can start right out of the gate despite popular belief.

    It's possible you have a legit problem with your back and it should be reviewed by a doctor.
  • hill8570
    hill8570 Posts: 1,466 Member
    Yoyo_Fitness wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    if you do Romanians, make sure you're using light enough weight and using proper form...many people tend to have more issues with a RDL due to the tendency to round the back rather than hinge at the hips.

    do you have access to a hex bar? that would be my recommendation...or trying sumo.

    I also think your issue may be related to starting with the bar too low due to not using plates...in that case I would adjust the safety bars in the cage to mirror the bar height of using a plate and see how that goes.

    hey! today I was so excited that I could do the normal deadlift, I didn't do sumo! hahaha. adjusted my forms and voila, it was fine! no I do this at my home gym, have a power rack and Olympic bar (45lbs), I have no hex bar unfortunatley. it corrects your form automatically right? is it worth getting?

    so much to learn with the bar! not that easy! I will practice a bit more with the bar alone for a week, then progress slowly.... thank you for commenting!

    Probably before getting a hex bar (pretty expensive, relatively limited uses), I'd pick up a couple of "technique plates" (or 10 lb bumper plates if you can't find technique plates) -- those will get the bar at the right height without having to mess with blocks. Come in handy when you're doing floor rows, 'too.
  • rileyes
    rileyes Posts: 1,406 Member
    You may want to strengthen your core with glute bridges or elevated single-leg glute bridges. Those moves may help if you are quad dominant.
  • skeo
    skeo Posts: 471 Member
    Congrats on getting a better lift today! That was my mistake as well in the beginning, I figured that I had to LIFT/PULL the weight up, so a lot of strain was on my lower back and biceps.
    But after watching a few videos on form and power lifters etc, they all describe the exercise as a PUSH type, imagine pushing the world away from under your feet and that really helped me visualize it, and now my DL's are up to 225 from 185 :) keep it up, and never ever risk form for numbers, and you'll get better!
  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    kozykondition1 wrote: »
    I suggest placing the bar on cinder blocks or anything that will raise it to the height of a normal Olympic plate. If you are lifting just the bar off of the ground, then you are doing a deficit deadlift. If you are doing it in a power rack, then you are doing a rack pull. Deficit deadlifts put extra pressure on your lower back. Rack pulls do not engage as many muscles as normal deadlifts.

    Keep up the good work!

    hi there! yes I figured and I use my Powerblock dumbells as the blocks to place the bar on it and it is much better. i am still scared xxxx less, whenever I try to lift, but yesterday I made very clean deadlifts and I am happy! yes rack pulls would be less efficient, I know.... I think I will try to do the normal deadlift this way! thank you for the comment!
  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »
    If you're having trouble with Conventional Deadlift then I don't think an RDL or SLDL will be any better. There is actually a high degree of hip flexion that requires hip and lumbar extension to bring yourself back-up. I think you need to identify what is wrong with your back and why you're having these issues.

    It's possible that it's just your form.

    It's possible that you need to strengthen your muscles individually first and then start the compound lifts, not everybody can start right out of the gate despite popular belief.

    It's possible you have a legit problem with your back and it should be reviewed by a doctor.

    yes it was because of my crappy form!!! I just didn't think it would make such a difference! yesterday's lift was super easy for me. I've been training my core and back all this time so I guess that helped! but I would also do Romanian deadlift to help me strengthen my muscles to carry out more efficient classic deadlift! will keep you posted :)

  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    hill8570 wrote: »
    Yoyo_Fitness wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    if you do Romanians, make sure you're using light enough weight and using proper form...many people tend to have more issues with a RDL due to the tendency to round the back rather than hinge at the hips.

    do you have access to a hex bar? that would be my recommendation...or trying sumo.

    I also think your issue may be related to starting with the bar too low due to not using plates...in that case I would adjust the safety bars in the cage to mirror the bar height of using a plate and see how that goes.

    hey! today I was so excited that I could do the normal deadlift, I didn't do sumo! hahaha. adjusted my forms and voila, it was fine! no I do this at my home gym, have a power rack and Olympic bar (45lbs), I have no hex bar unfortunatley. it corrects your form automatically right? is it worth getting?

    so much to learn with the bar! not that easy! I will practice a bit more with the bar alone for a week, then progress slowly.... thank you for commenting!

    Probably before getting a hex bar (pretty expensive, relatively limited uses), I'd pick up a couple of "technique plates" (or 10 lb bumper plates if you can't find technique plates) -- those will get the bar at the right height without having to mess with blocks. Come in handy when you're doing floor rows, 'too.

    gotta look into all these goodies, I am still new to weightlifting with bars! my powerblock dumbbells are for now quite perfect, 7-8 inchs high :) not too low I think... oh rows, damn. I find that very hard! THAT I can only do in the cage, not from the floor!!! :s
  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    rileyes wrote: »
    You may want to strengthen your core with glute bridges or elevated single-leg glute bridges. Those moves may help if you are quad dominant.

    my chiropractor said my hamstrings are very weak! I do hip thrust with a smaller barbell and man, it kills my butt every time! I haven't tried single-leg one, I will probably die trying! hahaha thank you for the tip, I will incorporate those in my next workout! thank you!!!!!! :D
  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    skeo wrote: »
    Congrats on getting a better lift today! That was my mistake as well in the beginning, I figured that I had to LIFT/PULL the weight up, so a lot of strain was on my lower back and biceps.
    But after watching a few videos on form and power lifters etc, they all describe the exercise as a PUSH type, imagine pushing the world away from under your feet and that really helped me visualize it, and now my DL's are up to 225 from 185 :) keep it up, and never ever risk form for numbers, and you'll get better!

    ohhhhhh you, too!!! thank you! I was soooo happy I could do it! you are right, this visualization is very important. I still have to concentrate a few seconds before I do it (coz I am still scared and insecure about my form), but I have managed every time. Felt so amazing! what, 225!?!?!? that is incredible! you can lift the bar with your little finger, can't you!?!? I just started lifting properly, moving away from running and swimming and all.... all very new to me, but at the same time, pretty exciting. you, too, keep it up!!!! :D

  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    Nice video by Dan John on the hip hinge. Good movement here will help with the deadlift.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34saz57cxjs
  • Yoyo_Fitness
    Yoyo_Fitness Posts: 84 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Nice video by Dan John on the hip hinge. Good movement here will help with the deadlift.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34saz57cxjs

    Thank you - it is so interesting, you really have to watch out for every small detail!!!

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