Overly Obese and Dr
schellies
Posts: 88 Member
Anyone else spoke with doctor about cery low calorie diets and or liquid diets to get appetite and eating under control? Just looking to see how this went for anyone.
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Replies
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No... doctor's are literally the worst people you could go to for nutritional advice. They get about 6 hours of nutritional education within their degree.
Why would you need a low calorie diet or a liquid diet anyways?
MFP is a book of knowledge.0 -
VLCD are inherently dangerous and require a crazy amount of preparation (lab work to the level you've never seen) and monitoring (maybe as often as weekly appointments). They are dangerous to the point that you can cause organ damage in just a few weeks. That's no joke.
The fact is that appetite and eating are behaviors that you need to learn to control outside/beyond calorie counting. There are psychologists/psychiatrists that specialize in bariatric patients, those who need assistance with weight loss, so that might be your first stop. A behavior profile can be very enlightening and may lead you to a mental game solution before you get to a VLCD solution.
You should see a dietitian as well, because the tiny bit of food you'd be getting on VLCD has to be the absolute highest nutrition. If you're not fully versed on macros and micros, you should spend some time researching those, so you can understand what you're thinking about doing.
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying don't DIY. This is absolutely something you should do under direct instruction and supervision from a doctor specializing in weight loss. Not a GP, a doctor that specializes in weight loss with the support staff, like a dietitian, to ensure you're as safe as possible. The fact is, VLCD aren't safe. Good luck.0 -
Hi there! You can tell us a bit more about yourself and the experience you've had losing weight, and there's lots of friendly and helpful people here. And if one person gives you bad advice, everyone else will point out the alternate viewpoints. Really!
Have you read these links? I started out morbidly obese, and WISH I'd had something like this forum when I started
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1175494-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1234699-logging-accurately-step-by-step-guide0 -
Calories in and calories out is the key to weight loss. If you eat less calories than you consume you will lose the weight. Buy a food scale if you don't have one, weigh everything to get an accurate calorie count, and follow mfp plan. If you find the plan you picked is too aggressive (1200 calories, etc.) then don't' be as aggressive and do something more sustainable. Track exercise, if using mfp calorie estimates for burns then eat around 50% of those calories back and adjust as necessary.
Weight loss is calories in calories out, nutrition is watching your macros and micros, and fitness is about exercise.
You don't need a super low calorie or liquid diet to succeed.0 -
I went on a low-cal diet. I lost weight. I didn't have special trips in for my weight loss because I was in all the time for other stuff, anyway, but I was monitored. I had deficiencies before I started the diet, so was supplementing, anyway.
I didn't drink shakes or takes protein powders. I didn't have any special supplements that weren't just pills unless I was actually hospitalized, but the hospitalizations were unrelated to the diet.
If the doctor wants you dropping weight and has you on a special diet for that or other medical reasons, do that.
Personally, I wouldn't go to a weight loss clinic to get shakes or whathaveyou, but I know people do that.0 -
Anyone else spoke with doctor about cery low calorie diets and or liquid diets to get appetite and eating under control? Just looking to see how this went for anyone.
Docs get very little nutritional education with their degrees. Can you ask for MD for a referral to a dietician? They may be able to help you meal plan and help pick foods so you can reach your macros and micros and calorie goals.0 -
No need for drastic measures. Just eat at a moderate deficit (1 lb per week based on your goals), weigh all solid/semi solid foods using a digital scale, measure all liquids. Log everything, no matter how bad a day you're having, because we all have those! Move a little more. The weight will go. 0
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VLCD are inherently dangerous and require a crazy amount of preparation (lab work to the level you've never seen) and monitoring (maybe as often as weekly appointments). They are dangerous to the point that you can cause organ damage in just a few weeks. That's no joke.
The fact is that appetite and eating are behaviors that you need to learn to control outside/beyond calorie counting. There are psychologists/psychiatrists that specialize in bariatric patients, those who need assistance with weight loss, so that might be your first stop. A behavior profile can be very enlightening and may lead you to a mental game solution before you get to a VLCD solution.
You should see a dietitian as well, because the tiny bit of food you'd be getting on VLCD has to be the absolute highest nutrition. If you're not fully versed on macros and micros, you should spend some time researching those, so you can understand what you're thinking about doing.
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying don't DIY. This is absolutely something you should do under direct instruction and supervision from a doctor specializing in weight loss. Not a GP, a doctor that specializes in weight loss with the support staff, like a dietitian, to ensure you're as safe as possible. The fact is, VLCD aren't safe. Good luck.
2Poufs I know you posted you elected to have the RNY bariatric surgery and have to do very LC to make it a success.
You seem not to grasp the concepts of very Low Carb High Fat eating lifestyle that is being discussed here. There is NO ' tiny bit of food you'd be getting on VLCD' in my case. I eat 2600 calories when losing weight and 3000 daily to maintain. 3000 calories with 2400 of them being from fats is physically a pile of food on even a large plate.
I expect you medically know very Low Carb High Fat diets are not inherently dangerous and do not require crazy amounts of preparation and monitoring for the typical person beyond any preexisting conditions already being monitored other than being fat. I do understand you had life threatening conditions and could not wait to master very LCHF on your own. In fact after I tried LCHF I failed for the first two months and had to first break my long term carb addiction before I could get into nutritional ketosis. Because I did not have much time I did not consult psychologists/psychiatrists but that could be a good option as you suggested.
Yes most should have an annual exam with the typical lab work even if we are free of medical issues and are Rx free where they are going to do an eating lifestyle change or not after age 40.
If one has preexisting health needs that require regular medical attention sure they need to check with their medical care providers before making any eating lifestyle change. For example if they are diabetic and going very LCHF cures their diabetes and they keep taking insulin like before then then they could die. That should be common sense but common sense does not seem to be so common any longer.
The fact remains we are all different and what works for me may be bad for you and visa versa. I took a low tech route to just stop eating food containing sugar and/or grains. You took the high tech surgery route then added the low tech route. There are readers here that should take either route but some third route.
The web is not a place to give or received personal medical advice. I can state what worked or did not work for me and you can do the same. All roads lead to Roman we are told. There are many roads to better health other than VLCD or surgery I am sure.
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Gale - I'm confused, I don't see anyone discussing Low Carb High Fat here (except you)0
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girlviernes wrote: »Gale - I'm confused, I don't see anyone discussing Low Carb High Fat here (except you)
I think he thinks VLCD stands for "very low CARB diet" instead of "CALORIE"0 -
@GaleHawkins ... VLCD = Very Low Calorie Diet Not low carb!0
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The thing is there are a million diets out there and they all would probably work just fine if you can stick to them. The problem is sticking to them. Many people have an uncontrollable compulsion to overeat. Sometimes a scarey diagnosis from a doctor about some medical problem can wake people up to get them serious about weight loss and for other people that doesn't even work. I personally think radical diets or anything too extreme is not sustainable and when you stop it you will gain the weight back. You need to know yourself. When it comes to weight loss what is your biggest difficulty when it comes to controlling what you eat...or how much of it? Find a buddy or a support group that you can work with to help you find ways to hold yourself accountable. Find someone who won't take excuses and will call you on your @%*# when it needs to happen. That could be a friend, a relative, your significant other, or someone here on MFP. Find someone that can stick by you and help you through the difficult times...because there will be some. Even though you may have struggled in the past to lose weight or keep it off believe it or not you can do this. Many of us were in your same shoes not that long ago. It does get easier. Find an EASY diet that you know you can stick to for the long haul. We are here for you. I'm here for you. If anyone ever needs help just getting started and you don't know what direction to go shoot me a PM...I'm always available to talk. Be warned I am die hard calories in vs calories out (CICO) person...so if you think you're a special snowflake and want to make excuses I'm probably not the best person to be in your camp. But if you're serious about getting dedicated to losing weight I would love to help you and it doesn't require any special shakes, certain foods, or crazy restrictions.....ITS FREE. 0
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Agreed.girlviernes wrote: »Gale - I'm confused, I don't see anyone discussing Low Carb High Fat here (except you)
I think he thinks VLCD stands for "very low CARB diet" instead of "CALORIE"
Comprehension fail.
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GaleHawkins wrote: »VLCD are inherently dangerous and require a crazy amount of preparation (lab work to the level you've never seen) and monitoring (maybe as often as weekly appointments). They are dangerous to the point that you can cause organ damage in just a few weeks. That's no joke.
The fact is that appetite and eating are behaviors that you need to learn to control outside/beyond calorie counting. There are psychologists/psychiatrists that specialize in bariatric patients, those who need assistance with weight loss, so that might be your first stop. A behavior profile can be very enlightening and may lead you to a mental game solution before you get to a VLCD solution.
You should see a dietitian as well, because the tiny bit of food you'd be getting on VLCD has to be the absolute highest nutrition. If you're not fully versed on macros and micros, you should spend some time researching those, so you can understand what you're thinking about doing.
I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying don't DIY. This is absolutely something you should do under direct instruction and supervision from a doctor specializing in weight loss. Not a GP, a doctor that specializes in weight loss with the support staff, like a dietitian, to ensure you're as safe as possible. The fact is, VLCD aren't safe. Good luck.
2Poufs I know you posted you elected to have the RNY bariatric surgery and have to do very LC to make it a success.
You seem not to grasp the concepts of very Low Carb High Fat eating lifestyle that is being discussed here. There is NO ' tiny bit of food you'd be getting on VLCD' in my case. I eat 2600 calories when losing weight and 3000 daily to maintain. 3000 calories with 2400 of them being from fats is physically a pile of food on even a large plate.
I expect you medically know very Low Carb High Fat diets are not inherently dangerous and do not require crazy amounts of preparation and monitoring for the typical person beyond any preexisting conditions already being monitored other than being fat. I do understand you had life threatening conditions and could not wait to master very LCHF on your own. In fact after I tried LCHF I failed for the first two months and had to first break my long term carb addiction before I could get into nutritional ketosis. Because I did not have much time I did not consult psychologists/psychiatrists but that could be a good option as you suggested.
Yes most should have an annual exam with the typical lab work even if we are free of medical issues and are Rx free where they are going to do an eating lifestyle change or not after age 40.
If one has preexisting health needs that require regular medical attention sure they need to check with their medical care providers before making any eating lifestyle change. For example if they are diabetic and going very LCHF cures their diabetes and they keep taking insulin like before then then they could die. That should be common sense but common sense does not seem to be so common any longer.
The fact remains we are all different and what works for me may be bad for you and visa versa. I took a low tech route to just stop eating food containing sugar and/or grains. You took the high tech surgery route then added the low tech route. There are readers here that should take either route but some third route.
The web is not a place to give or received personal medical advice. I can state what worked or did not work for me and you can do the same. All roads lead to Roman we are told. There are many roads to better health other than VLCD or surgery I am sure.
Bro, do you even read?
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As long as you are getting a calorie deficit, you WILL lose weight (unless you have some kind of medical condition!). So you will lose weight on a juice diet if you are eating - or in this case drinking at a calorie deficit. Saying that, that doesn't mean juice diet's are the way to go.
When you mention the term 'Juice diet', people tend to freak out. I have personal experience with juice diets and I can honestly tell you that I DID lose weight, Of course I lost weight. But I felt miserable as sin, was weak as a newborn kitten and snapping at every one around me. And please don't believe any 'Juice Diet' that promises you will not gain back the weight lost because they 'gradually introduce solids'. You will gain the weight back. I hate sounding like a typical cliche - but take it from someone who has tried EVERY THING - Diet pills, fat binders, fasting, shake/juice diets, weight watchers - the list goes on.. Quick fixes DO NOT work in the long run.
Eat good, balanced food at a deficit (a HEALTHY one) and you will lose weight. Don't waste your time or money.0 -
So the best person to get food advice from is a dietitian
I started with one and have lost the most amount of weight in my life 40 pounds. The rest of my life I have been gaining..
My doctor is awesome, I think it is very important you find a doctor you like and can trust. My doctor recommended I eat 1800 cal per day and I'm 5'3" and started at 407 lb and now 367lb
What my dietitian tells me is no sugar, balanced meals with starch, protein, and vegetable. And fruit is a starch.0 -
They are not "perfectly safe". They may be medically appropriate, but that doesn't make them perfectly safe.
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The OP also asked about ways to get appetite under control and I just want to add to what the others have said by pointing out that eating very low calorie will not reduce your appetite - you would feel hungry all the time on a very restricted plan.
If you are not a fan of hunger, rather try to lose slowly at a more manageable pace.
I don't mind a little hunger, but being starving can lead to bingeing and feeling worse about yourself down the line with little or no progress.
It is difficult to be patient when you want things to change, but trust us, slow and steady wins the race.0 -
sheldonklein wrote: »
They are not "perfectly safe". They may be medically appropriate, but that doesn't make them perfectly safe.
The relevant authorities disagree. "Very-low-calorie diets are generally safe and well-tolerated" etc.0 -
@D14HrAQAMR…ve/health/Library/CAD/abstract12030.html). The intensity of protein in the liquid diets can cause an electrolyte imbalance which results in irregular heart beats (http://www.columbia.net/1source/winter95/diet.html). Studies show that 25% of the people on liquid diets develop gallstones due to their inability to contract bile.sheldonklein wrote: »
They are not "perfectly safe". They may be medically appropriate, but that doesn't make them perfectly safe.
The relevant authorities disagree. "Very-low-calorie diets are generally safe and well-tolerated" etc.0 -
re maintenance from http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141015190832.htm
"The Australian trial included 200 obese adults (BMI 30-45kg/m²) who were randomly assigned to either a 12-week rapid weight loss (RWL) programme on a very-low-calorie diet (450-800 kcal/day) or a 36-week gradual weight-loss (GWL) programme. The GWL programme reduced participants' energy intake by approximately 500 kcal/day in line with current dietary weight loss guidelines. Participants who lost more than 12.5% of their bodyweight were then placed on a weight maintenance diet for 3 years.
Participants who lost weight faster were more likely to achieve target weight loss: 81% of participants in the RWL group lost ≥12.5% of their bodyweight versus just 50% in the GWL group. The researchers found that the initial rate of weight loss did not affect the amount or rate of weight regain in these patients who entered the subsequent weight maintenance period, as similar amounts of weight were regained after 3 years by participants who had lost weight on either diet programme. Weight regain was around 71% in both groups after 3 years."
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(14)70200-1/abstract0 -
re maintenance from http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/10/141015190832.htm
"The Australian trial included 200 obese adults (BMI 30-45kg/m²) who were randomly assigned to either a 12-week rapid weight loss (RWL) programme on a very-low-calorie diet (450-800 kcal/day) or a 36-week gradual weight-loss (GWL) programme. The GWL programme reduced participants' energy intake by approximately 500 kcal/day in line with current dietary weight loss guidelines. Participants who lost more than 12.5% of their bodyweight were then placed on a weight maintenance diet for 3 years.
Participants who lost weight faster were more likely to achieve target weight loss: 81% of participants in the RWL group lost ≥12.5% of their bodyweight versus just 50% in the GWL group. The researchers found that the initial rate of weight loss did not affect the amount or rate of weight regain in these patients who entered the subsequent weight maintenance period, as similar amounts of weight were regained after 3 years by participants who had lost weight on either diet programme. Weight regain was around 71% in both groups after 3 years."
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(14)70200-1/abstract
Very helpful info on risk of regain where one loses fast for slowly. Thanks
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girlviernes wrote: »Gale - I'm confused, I don't see anyone discussing Low Carb High Fat here (except you)
I think he thinks VLCD stands for "very low CARB diet" instead of "CALORIE"
Yes I had another thread in mind plus I do not grasp the low calorie diet be because I would be hungry all of the time. I got into Low Carb High Fat without knowing what it was to manage my pain and it worked after only 30 days.
I am glad that those who need very low calorie diets can master them. Best of success to each.
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I'm on one and it's not perfectly safe. There are still very real risks and side effects and I've suffered some of those. Those risks and side effects are still better than the alternative. However, they aren't perfectly safe, even medically prescribed and under a doctor's care. They're just safer than doing it yourself and a better alternative than remaining obese or dying.0 -
@GaleHawkins ... VLCD = Very Low Calorie Diet Not low carb!
Thanks for correcting my wrong assumption due to living in a very low carb environment for the past year. I am OK losing weight on 2600 calories with my pain manage eating lifestyle. Best of success for those on very low calorie diets. I agree most all diets do work if we stick with them for life.0
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