protein

Bansh3e
Bansh3e Posts: 71 Member
edited November 23 in Food and Nutrition
Hy guys I have a question about protein.Do you count protein from pasta,bread,vegetables, nuts ..etc or just from meat?.It`s a plant protein similar to animal protein in term of body composition and building muscle?

Replies

  • sixxpoint
    sixxpoint Posts: 3,529 Member
    You count protein from all sources, but all protein is not created equal.
  • Y_A_F_A
    Y_A_F_A Posts: 11 Member
    sixxpoint wrote: »
    You count protein from all sources, but all protein is not created equal.

    Totally agree.
  • CasperNaegle
    CasperNaegle Posts: 936 Member
    Yes I count all my macros from everything I eat or drink.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    Not all proteins are created equal, but you don't have to match all the various kinds to meet your protein goals. Let MFP do the maths for you and let your body do the mixing and matching. Protein combining has been debunked.
  • Bansh3e
    Bansh3e Posts: 71 Member
    So basically it does not matter from where i take my protein if it is protein, my body will will use it properly.That explains why vegans can build muscle,they protein is from plants.Even protein shake is dairy protein.
  • sixxpoint
    sixxpoint Posts: 3,529 Member
    jgnatca wrote: »
    Not all proteins are created equal, but you don't have to match all the various kinds to meet your protein goals. Let MFP do the maths for you and let your body do the mixing and matching. Protein combining has been debunked.

    The only people who really need to focus on ensuring complimentary proteins are those on very restrictive diets -vegans for example- since most average people get varied enough sources that incomplete protein is a non-issue.
  • ladipoet
    ladipoet Posts: 4,180 Member
    sixxpoint wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    Not all proteins are created equal, but you don't have to match all the various kinds to meet your protein goals. Let MFP do the maths for you and let your body do the mixing and matching. Protein combining has been debunked.

    The only people who really need to focus on ensuring complimentary proteins are those on very restrictive diets -vegans for example- since most average people get varied enough sources that incomplete protein is a non-issue.

    My apologies to all...I don't mean to hijack this thread but SixxPoint, would you please elaborate on your first comment above "all protein is not created equal"...? I am sincerely interested in knowing why.
  • Yi5hedr3
    Yi5hedr3 Posts: 2,696 Member
    sixxpoint wrote: »
    You count protein from all sources, but all protein is not created equal.

    I agree! :)
  • kwtilbury
    kwtilbury Posts: 1,234 Member
    ladipoet wrote: »
    sixxpoint wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    Not all proteins are created equal, but you don't have to match all the various kinds to meet your protein goals. Let MFP do the maths for you and let your body do the mixing and matching. Protein combining has been debunked.

    The only people who really need to focus on ensuring complimentary proteins are those on very restrictive diets -vegans for example- since most average people get varied enough sources that incomplete protein is a non-issue.

    My apologies to all...I don't mean to hijack this thread but SixxPoint, would you please elaborate on your first comment above "all protein is not created equal"...? I am sincerely interested in knowing why.

    I'm not expert on this, but some proteins only contain certain amino acids, the "building blocks" of muscle. Different proteins have different absorption rates. For example, whey protein is absorbed more rapidly than casein.

    There are other differences. For example, some have linked excessive amounts of soy protein to estrogen production in men. Not sure how well-researched this is.
  • ladipoet
    ladipoet Posts: 4,180 Member
    I'm not expert on this, but some proteins only contain certain amino acids, the "building blocks" of muscle. Different proteins have different absorption rates. For example, whey protein is absorbed more rapidly than casein.

    There are other differences. For example, some have linked excessive amounts of soy protein to estrogen production in men. Not sure how well-researched this is.[/quote]

    Thank you for your brief explanation kwtilbury. I appreciate it!
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    sixxpoint wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    Not all proteins are created equal, but you don't have to match all the various kinds to meet your protein goals. Let MFP do the maths for you and let your body do the mixing and matching. Protein combining has been debunked.

    The only people who really need to focus on ensuring complimentary proteins are those on very restrictive diets -vegans for example- since most average people get varied enough sources that incomplete protein is a non-issue.

    But I linked to the wiki article that explains that protein combining for vegetarians has been debunked. It turns out that even vegetarian bodies can manage to cobble together the proteins they need.

    Here's a start along the long road to understand amino acids and protein. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid

    In short, don't worry about it.
  • sixxpoint
    sixxpoint Posts: 3,529 Member
    jgnatca wrote: »
    sixxpoint wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    Not all proteins are created equal, but you don't have to match all the various kinds to meet your protein goals. Let MFP do the maths for you and let your body do the mixing and matching. Protein combining has been debunked.

    The only people who really need to focus on ensuring complimentary proteins are those on very restrictive diets -vegans for example- since most average people get varied enough sources that incomplete protein is a non-issue.

    But I linked to the wiki article that explains that protein combining for vegetarians has been debunked. It turns out that even vegetarian bodies can manage to cobble together the proteins they need.

    Here's a start along the long road to understand amino acids and protein. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amino_acid

    In short, don't worry about it.

    Correction: Vegetarians vs. Vegans.

    Completely different.
  • sixxpoint
    sixxpoint Posts: 3,529 Member

    ladipoet wrote: »
    sixxpoint wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    Not all proteins are created equal, but you don't have to match all the various kinds to meet your protein goals. Let MFP do the maths for you and let your body do the mixing and matching. Protein combining has been debunked.

    The only people who really need to focus on ensuring complimentary proteins are those on very restrictive diets -vegans for example- since most average people get varied enough sources that incomplete protein is a non-issue.

    My apologies to all...I don't mean to hijack this thread but SixxPoint, would you please elaborate on your first comment above "all protein is not created equal"...? I am sincerely interested in knowing why.

    Complete vs. incomplete proteins as well as different levels of bioavailability.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    I linked the wiki article that explains that protein combining for vegans and/or vegetarians has been debunked. One does not need to "protein combine" the vegetarian sources of protein for vegans or vegetarians to get a complete protein.
  • sixxpoint
    sixxpoint Posts: 3,529 Member
    As I said, "The only people who really need to focus on ensuring complimentary proteins are those on very restrictive diets -vegans for example- since most average people get varied enough sources that incomplete protein is a non-issue."

    Wiki is not a legit source.

    Vegans are extremely strict with their diets. It's a lifestyle change, not just a diet.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    Generally speaking, vegan protein sources are slightly more likely to be limited in lysine and tryptophan. Chances are that with enough protein, a person will still hit the RDA for the particular amino acids.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    What I love about wiki is that it cites it's sources. The whole idea of "complimentary proteins" has been debunked. I'm old enough to remember when this was gospel, and I'm old enough to see it die.

    "With three important exceptions, there is little danger of protein deficiency in a plant food diet. The exceptions are diets very heavily dependent on [1] fruit or on [2] some tubers, such as sweet potatoes or cassava, or on [3] junk food (refined flours, sugars, and fat). Fortunately, relatively few people in the world try to survive on diets in which these foods are virtually the sole source of calories. In all other diets, if people are getting enough calories, they are virtually certain of getting enough protein."[10] - Lappe', "Diet for a Small Planet"
  • sixxpoint
    sixxpoint Posts: 3,529 Member
    edited September 2015
    jgnatca wrote: »
    What I love about wiki is that it cites it's sources. The whole idea of "complimentary proteins" has been debunked. I'm old enough to remember when this was gospel, and I'm old enough to see it die.

    "With three important exceptions, there is little danger of protein deficiency in a plant food diet. The exceptions are diets very heavily dependent on [1] fruit or on [2] some tubers, such as sweet potatoes or cassava, or on [3] junk food (refined flours, sugars, and fat). Fortunately, relatively few people in the world try to survive on diets in which these foods are virtually the sole source of calories. In all other diets, if people are getting enough calories, they are virtually certain of getting enough protein."[10] - Lappe', "Diet for a Small Planet"

    The truth is that Vegans have a much harder time hitting adequate protein levels than non-Vegans. Even so, if you're not consuming meat or dairy then you are not getting the same sort of protein as everyone else. The protein that Vegans consume is typically not as bioavailable or complete. It is much more difficult to get a complete array of bioavailable protein as a Vegan. I know the actual science behind this and besides that, it is common sense. Broccoli is not going to give you the same protein as Beef.
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  • tincanonastring
    tincanonastring Posts: 3,944 Member
    sixxpoint wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    What I love about wiki is that it cites it's sources. The whole idea of "complimentary proteins" has been debunked. I'm old enough to remember when this was gospel, and I'm old enough to see it die.

    "With three important exceptions, there is little danger of protein deficiency in a plant food diet. The exceptions are diets very heavily dependent on [1] fruit or on [2] some tubers, such as sweet potatoes or cassava, or on [3] junk food (refined flours, sugars, and fat). Fortunately, relatively few people in the world try to survive on diets in which these foods are virtually the sole source of calories. In all other diets, if people are getting enough calories, they are virtually certain of getting enough protein."[10] - Lappe', "Diet for a Small Planet"

    The truth is that Vegans have a much harder time hitting adequate protein levels than non-Vegans. Even so, if you're not consuming meat or dairy then you are not getting the same sort of protein as everyone else. The protein that Vegans consume is typically not as bioavailable or complete. It is much more difficult to get a complete array of bioavailable protein as a Vegan. I know the actual science behind this and besides that, it is common sense. Broccoli is not going to give you the same protein as Beef.

    Yes, but if all I eat is beef, then I'm still not getting a full complement of proteins, right?
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    Oh, I'm harping on vegans/vegetarians to watch that they are getting enough protein all the time. But there is no need to match up or complement the various protein sources to make them complete in each meal. That has been debunked. Cited. Done.

    I am pretty sure since this idea has been debunked, then weight lifters similarly don't have to worry about doctoring together the precise cocktail of proteins pre-workout, after workout, during workout, or whenever.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,097 Member
    sixxpoint wrote: »
    jgnatca wrote: »
    What I love about wiki is that it cites it's sources. The whole idea of "complimentary proteins" has been debunked. I'm old enough to remember when this was gospel, and I'm old enough to see it die.

    "With three important exceptions, there is little danger of protein deficiency in a plant food diet. The exceptions are diets very heavily dependent on [1] fruit or on [2] some tubers, such as sweet potatoes or cassava, or on [3] junk food (refined flours, sugars, and fat). Fortunately, relatively few people in the world try to survive on diets in which these foods are virtually the sole source of calories. In all other diets, if people are getting enough calories, they are virtually certain of getting enough protein."[10] - Lappe', "Diet for a Small Planet"

    The truth is that Vegans have a much harder time hitting adequate protein levels than non-Vegans. Even so, if you're not consuming meat or dairy then you are not getting the same sort of protein as everyone else. The protein that Vegans consume is typically not as bioavailable or complete. It is much more difficult to get a complete array of bioavailable protein as a Vegan. I know the actual science behind this and besides that, it is common sense. Broccoli is not going to give you the same protein as Beef.

    Yes, but if all I eat is beef, then I'm still not getting a full complement of proteins, right?

    Depends on what you mean by "full complement." If you mean that beef does not have a perfect balance of essential amino acids, so that if beef (and meat in general) were your only source of dietary protein, your ability to make use of beef's amino acids would be limited by the essential amino acid that falls farthest below the optimum level, then yes, you're still not getting a full complement of proteins.

    This is essentially the fact behind the criticism of non-animal proteins, except that non-animal proteins are even further from the optimal ratios, so that the limiting amino acid in a non-animal protein would cause even more of the protein to be "wasted," if that particular food were your only source of protein. In reality, if you are getting enough protein (hitting your macro) from a variety of sources, even a variety of non-animal sources, you're going to be fine. In most cases even if you're getting a lot of protein (more than your macro target, precise amount depending on your stats, the particular protein source, etc.) just from a single non-animal source (e.g., legumes), you'll be fine, because if you were getting a lot of protein, then you would have enough of the limiting amino acid in that protein source to allow your body to make use of enough of the amino acids to make the protein it needs.
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