Kim Davis jailed for refusing to sign same sex marriage licenses

ninerbuff
ninerbuff Posts: 49,024 Member
edited November 23 in Chit-Chat
My view on this is: she should have been either fired for insubordination, had someone else sign the license (which ended up happening after she was jailed), and she SHOULDN'T have gone to jail just because she refused to (plain overkill). She could have been suspended from work at the very least.

Since a marriage license is a vital record, religious belief shouldn't have never played a part in it. I'm more than sure that as a County Clerk she signed off on documents that she may have morally disagreed with, but again her morality doesn't supercede her job she was hired for at a state capacity.

Thoughts? Don't let this become and "Adam and Steve" debate. Just wondering if you feel she should have signed the license even though she was morally against it.

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Replies

  • ROFLwaffle82
    ROFLwaffle82 Posts: 205 Member
    She should have signed it but she shouldn't have been jailed. Her punishment should've been handled by her employer.
  • OneHundredToLose
    OneHundredToLose Posts: 8,523 Member
    If she didn't want to do her job, she should have quit. She knew jailtime was a possibility - what she was doing was a crime. I'm not saying I would have thrown her in jail, but she was well aware of what could happen. She martyred herself by not quitting.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,024 Member
    OneHundredToLose wrote: »
    If she didn't want to do her job, she should have quit. She knew jailtime was a possibility - what she was doing was a crime. I'm not saying I would have thrown her in jail, but she was well aware of what could happen. She martyred herself by not quitting.
    Was it a crime? Or a judge who just wanted to impose force on her?

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  • kami3006
    kami3006 Posts: 4,979 Member
    If a person is unable to fulfill the obligations of their office then they should resign. It is unfortunate that, as an elected official, she cannot be fired out right but she certainly should be impeached by the state legislature.

    As far as jail time, it's been used for contempt of court in countless cases and I have no issue with it here. The judge said he would have rather imposed a fine but then her supporters would likely raise the funds and therefore, she would ultimately not have any consequences of breaking the law. I don't see where he had any other option.
  • OneHundredToLose
    OneHundredToLose Posts: 8,523 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    OneHundredToLose wrote: »
    If she didn't want to do her job, she should have quit. She knew jailtime was a possibility - what she was doing was a crime. I'm not saying I would have thrown her in jail, but she was well aware of what could happen. She martyred herself by not quitting.
    Was it a crime? Or a judge who just wanted to impose force on her?

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    Contempt of Court, plus discrimination.

  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,024 Member
    kami3006 wrote: »
    If a person is unable to fulfill the obligations of their office then they should resign. It is unfortunate that, as an elected official, she cannot be fired out right but she certainly should be impeached by the state legislature.

    As far as jail time, it's been used for contempt of court in countless cases and I have no issue with it here. The judge said he would have rather imposed a fine but then her supporters would likely raise the funds and therefore, she would ultimately not have any consequences of breaking the law. I don't see where he had any other option.
    Now I see why. Thanks. Couldn't figure out why it was so extreme, but if it's contempt of court, then I see why she's in jail now.

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  • Lleldiranne
    Lleldiranne Posts: 5,516 Member
    My understanding is that she was an elected official, so she couldn't be "fired." I think she should have issued the licenses or resigned. The fact that she wouldn't allow the assistant clerks to issue them either suggests that resigning wasn't part of her plan (she was trying to make a statement IMO).

    She was ordered by a judge to allow the licenses to be issued. She didn't do it. That falls under contempt of court. Was jail overkill? Maybe, but she's the one who pushed it that far.
  • zoeysasha37
    zoeysasha37 Posts: 7,088 Member
    I agree with you 100%. She should've just handed the paper work to a co worker if it bothered her that badly . and yes, she should've thought of it as a record and only a record , no personal opinions attached.
    I work for a jeweler part time. A man came in who was wearing a wedding band. He wanted to buy an engagement ring . a co worker asked him, " are you replacing an old engagement ring with a new contemporary style ?" He said , no I'm giving it to my girlfriend, but I'm also happily married to another woman so that's why I have a wedding band on. My co worker said okay great and sold him a ring. It would've been inappropriate to inject any personal feelings about his infidelity . the same applies here, she should've just done her job or at least handled it in a better way ( by asking a co worker to file the paper )
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,024 Member
    mathjulz wrote: »
    My understanding is that she was an elected official, so she couldn't be "fired." I think she should have issued the licenses or resigned. The fact that she wouldn't allow the assistant clerks to issue them either suggests that resigning wasn't part of her plan (she was trying to make a statement IMO).

    She was ordered by a judge to allow the licenses to be issued. She didn't do it. That falls under contempt of court. Was jail overkill? Maybe, but she's the one who pushed it that far.
    Think that maybe her position of power was one she didn't want to give up? Especially when it's to something she doesn't believe in?

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  • Timshel_
    Timshel_ Posts: 22,834 Member
    Here is the thing. The oath taken as a county clerk says you will uphold the Constitution, so any interruption by the SC, say for gay marriage rights, you have sworn to uphold. However, the last part of the oath is sworn before God, and we know where that stands.

    Sooooo....she was within her rights under the oath she was given in one sense and not in another.

    I think it was silly and should have been handled out of the media, but what fun would that be for people to push agendas.
  • OneHundredToLose
    OneHundredToLose Posts: 8,523 Member
    Chaelaz wrote: »
    Here is the thing. The oath taken as a county clerk says you will uphold the Constitution, so any interruption by the SC, say for gay marriage rights, you have sworn to uphold. However, the last part of the oath is sworn before God, and we know where that stands.

    Sooooo....she was within her rights under the oath she was given in one sense and not in another.

    I think it was silly and should have been handled out of the media, but what fun would that be for people to push agendas.

    It's pretty insane that any part of anything official is done "before god".
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,024 Member
    Chaelaz wrote: »
    Here is the thing. The oath taken as a county clerk says you will uphold the Constitution, so any interruption by the SC, say for gay marriage rights, you have sworn to uphold. However, the last part of the oath is sworn before God, and we know where that stands.

    Sooooo....she was within her rights under the oath she was given in one sense and not in another.

    I think it was silly and should have been handled out of the media, but what fun would that be for people to push agendas.
    Especially in an election year. You KNOW this is going to be a topic of conversation in the debates when it comes up.

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  • zoeysasha37
    zoeysasha37 Posts: 7,088 Member
    I wasn't aware that she was elected , I assumed she was a "hired" employee
  • FabulousFantasticFifty
    FabulousFantasticFifty Posts: 195,832 Member
    Yeah! I'm all about supporting Same Sex Marriage but do think that Jail is extreme! She should have just been Fired for not doing her job without Prejudice!
  • kami3006
    kami3006 Posts: 4,979 Member
    FabulousFantasticFifty wrote: »
    Yeah! I'm all about supporting Same Sex Marriage but do think that Jail is extreme! She should have just been Fired for not doing her job without Prejudice!

    She cannot be fired because she's an elected official. The state legislature has to initiate an impeachment.
  • Luke_I_am_your_spotter
    Luke_I_am_your_spotter Posts: 4,179 Member
    edited September 2015
    She's an idiot, plain n simple. Government worker who believes following her personal beliefs ismore important than following the law. She should have resigned...but she is determined to stop the marriages from happening. Abuse of power at its best. I hope someone wants to be her "special friend" in jail.
  • mewilliams11
    mewilliams11 Posts: 139 Member
    I am in agreement with everyone above. Apparently she allowed her strong personal/ religious beliefs to interfere with her ability to do her job. She had the opportunity to quit, but instead thought she could continue to defy the law. I think being jailed was very appropriate for this situation & she fully knew that she could be arrested for non compliance.

    I'm not getting a religious conversation started but there's a quote that I've always liked that says, "Don't judge someone because they sin differently than you". Kim Davis has been married & divorced 4 times. I guess that's ok somehow because she was in a heterosexual relationship, so she can self justify that.
  • karyabc
    karyabc Posts: 830 Member
    :/ I don't care what her personal believes are! this is not about her, do your job !

    Do you know how many times I have to hear parents saying to me, "do not give blood transfusion to my kid no matter how serious his condition is because we're X type of religion, yes, in my mind I'm probably effingggg you in so many levels, but I follow the law and their wishes and I keep my mouth shut.

    And seriously gay marriage? I'm not even gay but I find it so offensive the fact the some believe that marriage is a privileged that should only be preserve to heterosexual couples -.-
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  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 49,024 Member
    HawleyGriffin wrote: »
    Sorry @ninerbuff but your original post was a big fail. I have a fan of your threads for years, but you really botched the facts on this one by suggesting she fired and failing to note she ignored a court order.

    Excellent topic for debate, but several of the posts are reiterating she should be fired and others clearing up the fact that she can't be.

    She deserved the jail time
    Oh I'm willing to admit I didn't have all the facts or info. I went by just the understanding that she just refused to sign it due to personal religious beliefs. And if that was the case, I didn't think she deserved jail time. However, now that I have more info, I can see why she went to jail now.
    I don't expect every thread I create, I will always be correct on.

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