Half-marathoners: Help with hitting the wall
515TeachNRun
Posts: 6,492 Member
I have run the same 20K four years in a row. I hit a wall somewhere between miles 8 and 10. I don't use gel or goo. Any suggestions? I'm training next for a half in the fall, and I'd love to beat my 20K time.
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Replies
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Bump! (I hope to run my first half marathon at the end of this summer!)0
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I make sure that I have really great, kick-*kitten* music on my marathon play list from miles 8 - 13... the songs have to be spot on, or else I hit that wall too and come to a screeching halt. That, and I find it's very much a mental conversation with myself to just keep on going!0
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My sister is a half-marathoner and her husband is a tri-athlete. They both use a gator- ade gel. At the sports store today they recommended a "Hammer" brand. It is all natural. Good luck!0
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When I run long distances and my body starts to fight back, I relax my entire body and take several deep breaths as well as holding my breath for about 20 seconds at a time. Also, during a run I always take a mental assessment of my body and I always try to put myself in a happier mental place (i.e. beach). If something starts to hurt again, I just tell myself it doesn't hurt and wont focus on the problem area. Just put one foot in front of the other and drive on. Good luck with your mini?0
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I personally don't see a need for gels or supplements.. when a much less expensive, carb equivalent alternative is available at practically every store you go to..I use Jelly Belly jelly beans. At 4 calories each, and pure carb, they are just the pick me up I need. I have them about mile 5 or so (an hour in the run). I can pop them one at a time as I need them and space out the calories instead of dumping 50 or 100 calories at once.0
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I don't know how long your runs are during training, but maybe you should consider over-training. Take your long run up to a 24K or even a 28K, then the 20 will seem a bit short...
Have you tried HIIT? It's supposed to help all aspects of your running...
That's all I've got. Hope it helps.
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I eat Gu Chomps during my half marathons, 1/2 a pack on each 1/2 hour to stay fueled. I also script my iPod playlist to have extremely motivational songs going at mile 10. That's where you need to dig down deep and tell yourself you only have to run a 5K and your done-now get going! Getting through a half is all about training and proper pre-race fueling, that is, eating enough of the right kinds of foods in the weeks running up to the race, and being mentally tough enough to get through. Don't listen to the demons of self doubt!0
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I may be of some help here. I've run a few dozen half-mary's, with half a dozen tacked on the back of a half-Ironman triathlon.
I too have run out of steam on the back half of the run. A couple of things to consider:
1. Going out too fast in the first 10K. This can be avoided by wearing a HRM and knowing your training pace.
2. Not enough distance work in your training runs (I don't know your workout routine, so this is just a possibility). When I trained for Half's, my long runs would be 15-18 miles.
3. Not enough fuel in the tank before the race starts. There is a lot of great science about loading up your glycogen stores the days before the race. Your glycogen stores will give you about 45 minutes of fuel before your body resorts to other sources of fuel.
4. Not refueling during the race. If I were you, I would make it a habit of adding a refueling option into your training runs (either gels or drinks, never both together).
My numbers may be a little off here, but once you take a gel into your system, it'll be about 15 minutes before your body uses it as energy. In a Half, I'll take my gel 5-10 minutes before the race, 30 minutes into the run, and then again at the 1 hour mark. If gels don't suit you (many can't stomach them) then do a liquid version.
Those are just a few ideas from another runner. One thing is always certain, never try anything new on race day. You should work out your fueling strategy during your training runs. There are a lot of great books out there, better yet check out Runners World's website.0 -
I have run the same 20K four years in a row. I hit a wall somewhere between miles 8 and 10. I don't use gel or goo. Any suggestions? I'm training next for a half in the fall, and I'd love to beat my 20K time.
I wrote this a few weeks ago, it talks about how to improve your LT(lactic acid threshold) pretty much teaches you how to run faster.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/250454-the-benefits-ohiit-high-intensity-interval-training-for-wei?hl=benefits+o#posts-33088900 -
Hit the wall in terms of mentally or physically fatigued? What happens? I really like the camelbac elixir. I add twice the amount of water to it so it tastes more like flavored water. I also like to eat 1/2 a lara bar around mile 7.
Mentally speaking, you have to find your own motivation. Not allowing one' self the option to stop or slow down works for me. I tell myself that Im strong, and my body knows how to do this. I picture myself running the finish line. I absorb those positive feelings. KNOWING how proud I am at the end, KNOWING how strong I feel after. KNOWING that I have accomplished something amazing. Negative thoughts or words are NOT allowed. You have to trust your training and just don't stop. You have this! You have trained for this YOU are ready for this! :flowerforyou:
Edited to add that I found the book "performance nutrition for runners" very very helpful 0 -
I think you need some kind of protein during your run, I don't care for Gus or gels, I uses real food such as almonds, or peanut butter, or Just a straight shot of protein powder. Any of these will give you a boost in energy.
I also use Nuun, a sugar free electrolyte in my fuel belt, along with water. The Nuun comes in tablets, so you dont have to mess with powders.0 -
If your car runs out of fuel, it stops. Pretty much the same with your body. I think I was spoiled in my first half. Perfect weather, nice flat course but I had not even thought of using gels. My running buddy gave me one during the race and I could instantly feel the difference. My second half I had a game plan and followed it up to mile 11. Thinking "heck, there is only two miles left" I didn't take my last gel. Needless to say I struggled to the line, still with the gel on my belt. Silly mistake. But when I "ran out of gas" it seemed like every other internal system was in disarray so it became a struggle.
I have found that I can go for about an hour before I need to refuel. I can stretch it somewhere between 1:00:00 to 1:10:00, but not much more and then refuel every 45 minutes after that. Each person is different, so I would see how you feel by training with something that works for you. My digestive system isn't fond of the gels, but they do give me the fuel I need.0 -
I think you need some kind of protein during your run, I don't care for Gus or gels, I uses real food such as almonds, or peanut butter, or Just a straight shot of protein powder. Any of these will give you a boost in energy.
I also use Nuun, a sugar free electrolyte in my fuel belt, along with water. The Nuun comes in tablets, so you dont have to mess with powders.
It's interesting you say this. Theoretically what happens when you do this. You basically change over your metabolism to a fat burning metabolism, instead of a sugar burning metabolism. So the nitpickers, Yes i know about the Type 2A and 2B muscle fibers and how they burn sugar and stuff. I am talking about a pre lactace acid threshold level.0 -
As already seen from the responses, a lot of different things for people.
You have to use your long runs to figure out what fueling/hydration works for you. And I would really recomend getting your long run milage up to 15-18 miles. You will then have plenty to finish 13.10 -
This was just what I needed to see this morning, I have my first half in just under 5 weeks time and am petrified having only ran a max of 10 miles. Best get the proper nutrition and long runs going once I've done my last exam on wednesday!0
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I have run the same 20K four years in a row. I hit a wall somewhere between miles 8 and 10. I don't use gel or goo. Any suggestions? I'm training next for a half in the fall, and I'd love to beat my 20K time.
I wrote this a few weeks ago, it talks about how to improve your LT(lactic acid threshold) pretty much teaches you how to run faster.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/250454-the-benefits-ohiit-high-intensity-interval-training-for-wei?hl=benefits+o#posts-3308890
Hitting the wall has nothing to do with lactate (not lactic acid) threshold. It's due to severe glycogen depletion and a body that's not used to gluconeogenesis. One of two things you can do-
1. Eat something during your training and the race. It doesn't really matter what, though there is a reason gels and shot block type of foods are so successful in the marketplace- they combine fructose and dextrose and electrolytes, which studies have shown to be a highly beneficial combo for quick glycogen restoration.
2. Run longer (and SLOWLY) during your training. This will condition your body to easily transition out of burning glycogen to burning fat stores.0 -
Hit the wall in terms of mentally or physically fatigued? What happens? I really like the camelbac elixir. I add twice the amount of water to it so it tastes more like flavored water. I also like to eat 1/2 a lara bar around mile 7.
Mentally speaking, you have to find your own motivation. Not allowing one' self the option to stop or slow down works for me. I tell myself that Im strong, and my body knows how to do this. I picture myself running the finish line. I absorb those positive feelings. KNOWING how proud I am at the end, KNOWING how strong I feel after. KNOWING that I have accomplished something amazing. Negative thoughts or words are NOT allowed. You have to trust your training and just don't stop. You have this! You have trained for this YOU are ready for this! :flowerforyou:
Edited to add that I found the book "performance nutrition for runners" very very helpful
Good question. My wall is more mental. I tried thinking motivational thoughts and reminding myself I was so close to the end.
So many good suggestions out there. I followed the FIRST training plan from Runner's World this time. In the past, I've used Smart Coach from Runner's World.
I think I went too quickly in my first 10K. And I need to be more thoughtful and purposeful in my fueling in the days prior to my race and during my race.
GREAT thoughts and suggestions out there. Thank you so much!0 -
Run five to seven days a week for a total of 40+ miles for at least 12 weeks to build up an adequate aerobic base and avoid any training plan that promises better results with less training.0
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Hit the wall in terms of mentally or physically fatigued? What happens? I really like the camelbac elixir. I add twice the amount of water to it so it tastes more like flavored water. I also like to eat 1/2 a lara bar around mile 7.
Mentally speaking, you have to find your own motivation. Not allowing one' self the option to stop or slow down works for me. I tell myself that Im strong, and my body knows how to do this. I picture myself running the finish line. I absorb those positive feelings. KNOWING how proud I am at the end, KNOWING how strong I feel after. KNOWING that I have accomplished something amazing. Negative thoughts or words are NOT allowed. You have to trust your training and just don't stop. You have this! You have trained for this YOU are ready for this! :flowerforyou:
Edited to add that I found the book "performance nutrition for runners" very very helpful
Good question. My wall is more mental. I tried thinking motivational thoughts and reminding myself I was so close to the end.
So many good suggestions out there. I followed the FIRST training plan from Runner's World this time. In the past, I've used Smart Coach from Runner's World.
I think I went too quickly in my first 10K. And I need to be more thoughtful and purposeful in my fueling in the days prior to my race and during my race.
GREAT thoughts and suggestions out there. Thank you so much!
We distance runners tend to be self-motivational. I guess you didn't find the right motivation
But seriously switch your brain in to a mode where you don't have the option to stop. Just keep going. I also agree with whoever up there said get your long runs up and over the 1/2 distance. There is a certain confidence that comes along with that. Check out that book, I think you'd find it really helpful. It gives the breakdown of nutrition prior to a race (and why/what purpose those foods have). You will get this race and tear it up this time! 0 -
I have run the same 20K four years in a row. I hit a wall somewhere between miles 8 and 10. I don't use gel or goo. Any suggestions? I'm training next for a half in the fall, and I'd love to beat my 20K time.
I wrote this a few weeks ago, it talks about how to improve your LT(lactic acid threshold) pretty much teaches you how to run faster.
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/250454-the-benefits-ohiit-high-intensity-interval-training-for-wei?hl=benefits+o#posts-3308890
Hitting the wall has nothing to do with lactate (not lactic acid) threshold. It's due to severe glycogen depletion and a body that's not used to gluconeogenesis. One of two things you can do-
1. Eat something during your training and the race. It doesn't really matter what, though there is a reason gels and shot block type of foods are so successful in the marketplace- they combine fructose and dextrose and electrolytes, which studies have shown to be a highly beneficial combo for quick glycogen restoration.
2. Run longer (and SLOWLY) during your training. This will condition your body to easily transition out of burning glycogen to burning fat stores.
IF you increases your lactic acid threshold, what was your lactic acid threshold would be raised. SO you'd be running in your aerobic zone, allowing you to use more fat for energy.0 -
IF you increases your lactic acid threshold, what was your lactic acid threshold would be raised. SO you'd be running in your aerobic zone, allowing you to use more fat for energy.
LACTATE (you keep saying lactic acid threshold, but it's lactate- biochemically, two different things) threshold has little to do with gluconeogenesis, or your "Aerobic zone" as you state.
The way to increase your aerobic base is by running in your aerobic zone PAST the point of glycogen depletion. This is what causes your body to become efficient at gluconeogeneis, and this is the reason that the long run is critical to training, and why it is commonly referred to as the LSD (Long, SLOW, Distance).
The way to not bonk or hit the wall is aerobic base conditioning. The way to improve performance past your aerobic base is to increase your lactate threshold. By increasing your lactate threshold and constantly training within that, you can run at ABOVE your "aerobic zone" on race day.0 -
as I understand it, a true bonk is a function of running out of glycogen stores in your liver
this usually doesn't happen until mile 18-20+ of a marathon (as the body holds about 2,000 calories of glycogen)0 -
as I understand it, a true bonk is a function of running out of glycogen stores in your liver
this usually doesn't happen until mile 18-20+ of a marathon (as the body holds about 2,000 calories of glycogen)
Right. Not just your liver, but your entire body. How I understand it is that all cells in your body can create and store glycogen, but only the liver is able to convert fat stores (and irrelevant but interestingly, HFCS) to glycogen, which the body does as a last resort. Once that's gone, no more glycogen, and there's the true bonk.
Excluding the fat metabolizing skills of the liver, most have around an hour to 90 minutes worth of muscle stored glycogen. However, somebody who isn't able to efficiently convert fat to glycogen may feel those effects of muscle glycogen depletion.0 -
Nice job with your half PR BTW!0
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Nice job with your half PR BTW!
thanks! my quads are still a little angry, but it was well worth it0 -
IF you increases your lactic acid threshold, what was your lactic acid threshold would be raised. SO you'd be running in your aerobic zone, allowing you to use more fat for energy.
LACTATE (you keep saying lactic acid threshold, but it's lactate- biochemically, two different things) threshold has little to do with gluconeogenesis, or your "Aerobic zone" as you state.
The way to increase your aerobic base is by running in your aerobic zone PAST the point of glycogen depletion. This is what causes your body to become efficient at gluconeogeneis, and this is the reason that the long run is critical to training, and why it is commonly referred to as the LSD (Long, SLOW, Distance).
The way to not bonk or hit the wall is aerobic base conditioning. The way to improve performance past your aerobic base is to increase your lactate threshold. By increasing your lactate threshold and constantly training within that, you can run at ABOVE your "aerobic zone" on race day.
Yes I agree with you. I talk about LSD in my post. Maybe I just misunderstood the original post. From the looks of it, they can run the distance. So the issue isn't really about aerobic capacity. They just want to run faster. Which I believe LT training will do.0 -
1. Gatorade or Gu Chomps
2. 1/2 scoop Jack 3D (GNC) + 1 scoop carb powder (GNC)
3. Will power
We got the Jack 3D (energy) from GNC. Here's their website. http://www.jack-3d.com/0
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