Bench/Squat/Deads/MilitaryPress + Assistance work HELP

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Kriistabell
Kriistabell Posts: 181 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I'm looking for some advice in strengthening my lifts. I did a bunch of reading on Jim Wendler's approach and decided to re-write my program. I'll be doing 4x a week, 1 of the big lifts on each day. Wendler suggests doing assistance work to help you strengthen these lifts.

As I sit here re-writing my program I'm becoming confused..

Do I do the assistance work for a particular lift on the same day as I do the lift OR do I do the assistance work for a particular lift on a day that I don't use those muscles as much?

For example... On Squat Day:

Should I do assistance work for my military press since those muscles will be more rested and I'll be able to push them more?

OR should I do assistance work for my squats on that same day since the muscles will already be activated and warm?

I can't seem to find any information on this anywhere. Thanks for the help in advance.

Replies

  • IsaackGMOON
    IsaackGMOON Posts: 3,358 Member
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    I haven't really done Wendler's 5/3/1 but I did do a bench press day yesterday...

    I always assumed you do the main lift, i.e. squats, and then on the same day you do accessory exercises which are related to the main movement. Yesterday I did bench press followed by incline dumbbell press, bicep curls and tricep pushdowns...
  • Kriistabell
    Kriistabell Posts: 181 Member
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    IsaackGMOON wrote: »
    I haven't really done Wendler's 5/3/1 but I did do a bench press day yesterday...

    I always assumed you do the main lift, i.e. squats, and then on the same day you do accessory exercises which are related to the main movement. Yesterday I did bench press followed by incline dumbbell press, bicep curls and tricep pushdowns...

    Thanks for the help. I always assumed that also because it seems like doing chest day on chest day makes sense. I just wanted some insight on whether or not that is the best thing to do. Thank you!
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
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    Have you read Wendler ' s books? If not, get 5/3/1 and get Beyond 5/3/1. He has a ton of templates to follow. In general, though, if you're going to have a 4 day plan with 531 you'll have 2 upper and 2 lower days. Depending on the template, you may have the same exercise (or a variant) for assistance work as your main lift or you may do something from the "opposite" day. So you might do 531 with squats and your assistance might be more squats or a deadlift.
  • Kriistabell
    Kriistabell Posts: 181 Member
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    jemhh wrote: »
    Have you read Wendler ' s books? If not, get 5/3/1 and get Beyond 5/3/1. He has a ton of templates to follow. In general, though, if you're going to have a 4 day plan with 531 you'll have 2 upper and 2 lower days. Depending on the template, you may have the same exercise (or a variant) for assistance work as your main lift or you may do something from the "opposite" day. So you might do 531 with squats and your assistance might be more squats or a deadlift.

    Thanks! I don't have the books yet but I plan to get them cuz reading off the internet is def not enough. I just wanted to get started off on the right foot starting today at the gym.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
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    Kriistabell wrote: »
    jemhh wrote: »
    Have you read Wendler ' s books? If not, get 5/3/1 and get Beyond 5/3/1. He has a ton of templates to follow. In general, though, if you're going to have a 4 day plan with 531 you'll have 2 upper and 2 lower days. Depending on the template, you may have the same exercise (or a variant) for assistance work as your main lift or you may do something from the "opposite" day. So you might do 531 with squats and your assistance might be more squats or a deadlift.

    Thanks! I don't have the books yet but I plan to get them cuz reading off the internet is def not enough. I just wanted to get started off on the right foot starting today at the gym.

    In that case, go to blackironbeast.com and noodle around on the calculator a bit to see how things are laid out.
  • Kriistabell
    Kriistabell Posts: 181 Member
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    jemhh wrote: »
    In that case, go to blackironbeast.com and noodle around on the calculator a bit to see how things are laid out.

    Will do. Thank you :smile:

  • piperdown44
    piperdown44 Posts: 958 Member
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    I've been running 531 for a while and use blackironbeast for the spreadsheets.
    I used to run the regular Big But Boring (BBB) where you did the main lift like squats and then squats again at 50% for 5x10.

    I switched a while back to the alternate sets.
    So, my program looks like this now:
    Monday - OHP, followed by a set % of 5x10 bench
    Tuesday- Deadlift, followed by a set % of 5x10 squat
    Thursday- Bench, then OHP for % 5x10
    Friday- Squats, then deads for % 5x10

    I found I recovered faster by switching this and made great gains because in essence I'm hitting two body parts per week. One heavy and one lighter for volume.
    I currently have the percentages set at 50% for BBB but you can set them all kinds of different ways. Either higher percentages, pyramids, down sets, jokers, etc.
  • MGarcia0504
    MGarcia0504 Posts: 51 Member
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    I amrap at 80% of what my peak weight was the first exercise each routine (deadlifts incl. snatch grip, front and back squats, overhead press and flat bench depending on the day). Those exercises I do 5 reps of 3 of my max weight but then amrap (as many reps as possible) of 80% that weight. I've found that it helps me keep moving up on what I can lift pretty consistently.
  • StrongLeeUK
    StrongLeeUK Posts: 2 Member
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    I use the App Big Lifts 2 for main compound with warmp up always on, Plenty of routines and templates there, Easy to use, Accesory work i do on the same day as the movement for the movement, The sole purpose of this accessory work is to help my compound movement, Work weaker spots harder, Due to my training i have event days as well so i have accesory work to help my events as well,

    World Strongest Disabled Man 2015
  • armylife
    armylife Posts: 196 Member
    edited September 2015
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    Kriistabell wrote: »
    I'm looking for some advice in strengthening my lifts. I did a bunch of reading on Jim Wendler's approach and decided to re-write my program. I'll be doing 4x a week, 1 of the big lifts on each day. Wendler suggests doing assistance work to help you strengthen these lifts.

    As I sit here re-writing my program I'm becoming confused..

    Do I do the assistance work for a particular lift on the same day as I do the lift OR do I do the assistance work for a particular lift on a day that I don't use those muscles as much?

    For example... On Squat Day:

    Should I do assistance work for my military press since those muscles will be more rested and I'll be able to push them more?

    OR should I do assistance work for my squats on that same day since the muscles will already be activated and warm?

    I can't seem to find any information on this anywhere. Thanks for the help in advance.

    It really depends on what you are looking to get out of the program. 5/3/1 is broken into several subsets. If you are looking for more focus on hypertrophy then big but boring would be the path the program would recommend. That would look like:

    Main lift x 5/3/1
    Main lift x (a percent) x 5x10
    A second accessory exercise.

    A more "athletic" program is triumvirate:
    Main lift x 5/3/1
    Supporting accessory 5 x 10
    Supporting accessory 5 x 10-15

    There have been other variations created, such as Dave Tate's 5/3/1 conjugate method, but the important thing is to remember what Wendler says in his books, interviews, and on his site, "The choice of assistance lift pales in importance to the proper execution and loading of the key lifts. Too many younger lifters major in the minors, and they’re called assistance lifts for a reason."

    Below is a link to his article on assistance lifts from his site. I hope it helps.

    http://www.jimwendler.com/2012/10/the-last-word-on-assistance-lifts-i-wish/
  • lisalsd1
    lisalsd1 Posts: 1,520 Member
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    Check Beyond 5/3/1. That book has a TON of different variations. I just switched to 5/3/1 for PL. I think on this version, Wendler has limited assistance. It might be main lift + push or pull (I would have to double-check that). Anyway, I did read to keep assistance simple; like chins/dips.

    I usually do high rep sets after my main lift (like the above post):
    Main Lift x 5/3/1
    Main Lift x (50% ish) 3x8 (minimum)
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
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    Kriistabell wrote: »
    jemhh wrote: »
    Have you read Wendler ' s books? If not, get 5/3/1 and get Beyond 5/3/1. He has a ton of templates to follow. In general, though, if you're going to have a 4 day plan with 531 you'll have 2 upper and 2 lower days. Depending on the template, you may have the same exercise (or a variant) for assistance work as your main lift or you may do something from the "opposite" day. So you might do 531 with squats and your assistance might be more squats or a deadlift.

    Thanks! I don't have the books yet but I plan to get them cuz reading off the internet is def not enough. I just wanted to get started off on the right foot starting today at the gym.

    you should really get the books and run the program as it is laid out. Running your own version of 5/3/1 is not going to be as effective as the actual program.
  • shor0814
    shor0814 Posts: 559 Member
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    armylife wrote: »
    There have been other variations created, such as Dave Tate's 5/3/1 conjugate method, but the important thing is to remember what Wendler says in his books, interviews, and on his site, "The choice of assistance lift pales in importance to the proper execution and loading of the key lifts. Too many younger lifters major in the minors, and they’re called assistance lifts for a reason."

    Below is a link to his article on assistance lifts from his site. I hope it helps.

    http://www.jimwendler.com/2012/10/the-last-word-on-assistance-lifts-i-wish/
    This is all you need for assistance lift information.

    Some days you will walk out without doing any assistance lifts. On a bad day you focus on doing the main lift 100% and might call it good or maybe have a great day on your main lifts and can't stand so you call it a day. Aim for doing them but never let theme dictate or rule the workout or measure of success.


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