Cut progress and evaluation
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Well when I train now, I stick with 5x5 on compound movements and 8-12 reps on isolation. I also do about 15-20 minutes of cardio at the end of my workouts (except for after leg day).
How much lower do you guys think I need to cut? My concern is that I'm gonna have to go down to 130 or maybe even lower to see a real difference. Even then, I'm gonna have to go on an extended cut after a lean bulk. It was this reason that I was considering maybe eating around maintenance and slightly over now and then starting a cut around February or March. I know that my nutrient partitioning won't be optimal now but I'm not sure how much worse it will be. However, if everyone believes it will be worse to the point of me not making good progress I will definitely cut first0 -
If cardio actually burned fat, then I wouldn't know a crap ton of marathon runners who gain weight during training seasons. Cardio can be an enabler to create a deficit or as an enabler to eat more calories. But no, cardio in and by itself, does NOT burn fat. Overall fat loss or gain is controlled by the amount of calories you eat. The composition of that loss or gain is based on your training. During weight loss, weight training = more fat loss, less muscle loss; during weight gain, weight training = more muscle growth/development, less fat gains.
Bingo0 -
I agree with the notion that it's all about being in a deficit/surplus in regards to rep ranges and cardio though0
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Cardio does help you burn fat. We can get into the specifics or whatever, but how are you going to say cardio doesn't help burn fat?
As far as rep ranges yeah I can agree with lower reps for strength and power, but more tension with higher reps seems to have worked best for me out of anything.
If cardio actually burned fat, then I wouldn't know a crap ton of marathon runners who gain weight during training seasons. Cardio can be an enabler to create a deficit or as an enabler to eat more calories. But no, cardio in and by itself, does NOT burn fat. Overall fat loss or gain is controlled by the amount of calories you eat. The composition of that loss or gain is based on your training. During weight loss, weight training = more fat loss, less muscle loss; during weight gain, weight training = more muscle growth/development, less fat gains.
I think you confuse weight loss vs fat loss/prevention.0 -
Well when I train now, I stick with 5x5 on compound movements and 8-12 reps on isolation. I also do about 15-20 minutes of cardio at the end of my workouts (except for after leg day).
How much lower do you guys think I need to cut? My concern is that I'm gonna have to go down to 130 or maybe even lower to see a real difference. Even then, I'm gonna have to go on an extended cut after a lean bulk. It was this reason that I was considering maybe eating around maintenance and slightly over now and then starting a cut around February or March. I know that my nutrient partitioning won't be optimal now but I'm not sure how much worse it will be. However, if everyone believes it will be worse to the point of me not making good progress I will definitely cut first
Overall, I believe it's a long term issue as @njd1979 mentioned. By bulking now, you are going to add more fat than muscle (potentially). This means, post bulk, you may be stuck in a similar situation you were in a few months ago and it will be like starting all over (been there and it's not fun).
You probably need to lose another 7-10 lbs prior to maintenance/bulking. If you dont mind the time frame, you can work on trying to recomp, but @ 18-20% body fat, I don't think that is even optimal (anecdotally, I did that for 6 months and didn't see much benefit).0 -
Cardio does help you burn fat. We can get into the specifics or whatever, but how are you going to say cardio doesn't help burn fat?
As far as rep ranges yeah I can agree with lower reps for strength and power, but more tension with higher reps seems to have worked best for me out of anything.
If cardio actually burned fat, then I wouldn't know a crap ton of marathon runners who gain weight during training seasons. Cardio can be an enabler to create a deficit or as an enabler to eat more calories. But no, cardio in and by itself, does NOT burn fat. Overall fat loss or gain is controlled by the amount of calories you eat. The composition of that loss or gain is based on your training. During weight loss, weight training = more fat loss, less muscle loss; during weight gain, weight training = more muscle growth/development, less fat gains.
I think you confuse weight loss vs fat loss/prevention.
And that is your opinion. If you want to test your theory, go eat 8000 calories and do only cardio. See how much fat you lose.
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Cardio does help you burn fat. We can get into the specifics or whatever, but how are you going to say cardio doesn't help burn fat?
As far as rep ranges yeah I can agree with lower reps for strength and power, but more tension with higher reps seems to have worked best for me out of anything.
If cardio actually burned fat, then I wouldn't know a crap ton of marathon runners who gain weight during training seasons. Cardio can be an enabler to create a deficit or as an enabler to eat more calories. But no, cardio in and by itself, does NOT burn fat. Overall fat loss or gain is controlled by the amount of calories you eat. The composition of that loss or gain is based on your training. During weight loss, weight training = more fat loss, less muscle loss; during weight gain, weight training = more muscle growth/development, less fat gains.
I think you confuse weight loss vs fat loss/prevention.
If you eat 3000 cals and burn 500 from cardio would be the same as eating 2500 and doing no cardio when it comes to fat/weight loss/gain! Now if you only eat the 2500 and burn 500, then cardio "helps you burn fat", but you could have just eaten 2000 and skipped the cardio for the same results (though with the cardio you would be in better cardiovascular shape and have better endurance) It comes down to fitness goals if you break it down that way0 -
Cardio does help you burn fat. We can get into the specifics or whatever, but how are you going to say cardio doesn't help burn fat?
As far as rep ranges yeah I can agree with lower reps for strength and power, but more tension with higher reps seems to have worked best for me out of anything.
If cardio actually burned fat, then I wouldn't know a crap ton of marathon runners who gain weight during training seasons. Cardio can be an enabler to create a deficit or as an enabler to eat more calories. But no, cardio in and by itself, does NOT burn fat. Overall fat loss or gain is controlled by the amount of calories you eat. The composition of that loss or gain is based on your training. During weight loss, weight training = more fat loss, less muscle loss; during weight gain, weight training = more muscle growth/development, less fat gains.
I think you confuse weight loss vs fat loss/prevention.
If you eat 3000 cals and burn 500 from cardio would be the same as eating 2500 and doing no cardio when it comes to fat/weight loss/gain! Now if you only eat the 2500 and burn 500, then cardio "helps you burn fat", but you could have just eaten 2000 and skipped the cardio for the same results (though with the cardio you would be in better cardiovascular shape and have better endurance) It comes down to fitness goals if you break it down that way
Yeah I can see how that would work. I think the whole being in better cardiovascular shape could also have a snowball effect because the body would function better as a whole.0 -
Well when I train now, I stick with 5x5 on compound movements and 8-12 reps on isolation. I also do about 15-20 minutes of cardio at the end of my workouts (except for after leg day).
How much lower do you guys think I need to cut? My concern is that I'm gonna have to go down to 130 or maybe even lower to see a real difference. Even then, I'm gonna have to go on an extended cut after a lean bulk. It was this reason that I was considering maybe eating around maintenance and slightly over now and then starting a cut around February or March. I know that my nutrient partitioning won't be optimal now but I'm not sure how much worse it will be. However, if everyone believes it will be worse to the point of me not making good progress I will definitely cut first
Your training approach is pretty solid honestly. You just need to lock in the diet and then give it the proper time you need to drop the weight at a safe rate. Let's do some math to help you figure out (roughly) how much fat to lose (and how long to plan for a cut):
Current Weight: 142lbs
Body Fat Estimate: 20-25%. I going to worst case is and say 25% to "pad" your cut time a bit in order to account for any roadblocks
Desired Body Fat: 15%
25% * 142lbs = 35.5 lbs body fat
(35.5-x)/(142-x)=15%
> solve for x
> ~16.5lbs
Alot 1 week for every pound of fat you want to lose. Any more and you are risking muscle losses
Your cut should take roughly 4 months0 -
Ok thanks for the advice everyone. I just need to hunker down and get it done. I'll cut at a 500 calorie deficit and reevaluate in a couple months0
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_Bropollo_ wrote: »Your training approach is pretty solid honestly. You just need to lock in the diet and then give it the proper time you need to drop the weight at a safe rate. Let's do some math to help you figure out (roughly) how much fat to lose (and how long to plan for a cut):
Current Weight: 142lbs
Body Fat Estimate: 20-25%. I going to worst case is and say 25% to "pad" your cut time a bit in order to account for any roadblocks
Desired Body Fat: 15%
25% * 142lbs = 35.5 lbs body fat
(35.5-x)/(142-x)=15%
> solve for x
> ~16.5lbs
Alot 1 week for every pound of fat you want to lose. Any more and you are risking muscle losses
Your cut should take roughly 4 months
this is great btw, thanks a lot
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I would agree. I do HIIT 2x a week and try to get yoga/flexibility 1x a week on top of warming up/cool down. I also, keep rest between 30-90 seconds max and reps between 5-15.Cardio does help you burn fat. We can get into the specifics or whatever, but how are you going to say cardio doesn't help burn fat?
As far as rep ranges yeah I can agree with lower reps for strength and power, but more tension with higher reps seems to have worked best for me out of anything.
If cardio actually burned fat, then I wouldn't know a crap ton of marathon runners who gain weight during training seasons. Cardio can be an enabler to create a deficit or as an enabler to eat more calories. But no, cardio in and by itself, does NOT burn fat. Overall fat loss or gain is controlled by the amount of calories you eat. The composition of that loss or gain is based on your training. During weight loss, weight training = more fat loss, less muscle loss; during weight gain, weight training = more muscle growth/development, less fat gains.
I think you confuse weight loss vs fat loss/prevention.
If you eat 3000 cals and burn 500 from cardio would be the same as eating 2500 and doing no cardio when it comes to fat/weight loss/gain! Now if you only eat the 2500 and burn 500, then cardio "helps you burn fat", but you could have just eaten 2000 and skipped the cardio for the same results (though with the cardio you would be in better cardiovascular shape and have better endurance) It comes down to fitness goals if you break it down that way
Yeah I can see how that would work. I think the whole being in better cardiovascular shape could also have a snowball effect because the body would function better as a whole.
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_Bropollo_ wrote: »Your training approach is pretty solid honestly. You just need to lock in the diet and then give it the proper time you need to drop the weight at a safe rate. Let's do some math to help you figure out (roughly) how much fat to lose (and how long to plan for a cut):
Current Weight: 142lbs
Body Fat Estimate: 20-25%. I going to worst case is and say 25% to "pad" your cut time a bit in order to account for any roadblocks
Desired Body Fat: 15%
25% * 142lbs = 35.5 lbs body fat
(35.5-x)/(142-x)=15%
> solve for x
> ~16.5lbs
Alot 1 week for every pound of fat you want to lose. Any more and you are risking muscle losses
Your cut should take roughly 4 months
this is great btw, thanks a lot
Agreed. Great post @_Bropollo_
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_Bropollo_ wrote: »Your training approach is pretty solid honestly. You just need to lock in the diet and then give it the proper time you need to drop the weight at a safe rate. Let's do some math to help you figure out (roughly) how much fat to lose (and how long to plan for a cut):
Current Weight: 142lbs
Body Fat Estimate: 20-25%. I going to worst case is and say 25% to "pad" your cut time a bit in order to account for any roadblocks
Desired Body Fat: 15%
25% * 142lbs = 35.5 lbs body fat
(35.5-x)/(142-x)=15%
> solve for x
> ~16.5lbs
Alot 1 week for every pound of fat you want to lose. Any more and you are risking muscle losses
Your cut should take roughly 4 months
this is great btw, thanks a lot
This isn't quite right, as your LBM will also decrease while you lose weight, so to get to 15% BF% assuming you are 25% now you will most likely have to lose 18-25 lbs, depending on how much LBM you lose. A rule of thumb could be 1 lb lbm lost for every 3-4 lbs of fat lost, like on a bulk where you aim for 1:1.
So the Calculation should be more like LBM = 106.5 (.75*142) to get to 15% assuming no lbm lost you do the find for X which is about 16.5 lbs, but if you lose 1 lb of lbm per 4 lbs lost that means you lbm is now:102.5 (106.5-4), so at the 125.5 lbs (142-16.5) you will have a BF% of about 18% (1-102.5/125.5) not 15%.
If you aim for a 24lb loss, say 6 lbs of LBM that would put you at a bf% of 14.8% (100.5/118), so to get to 15% BF% you will have to lose 18-26lbs. to limit lbm loss you will want to get enough protein, take part in a progressive strength training program, and have a relatively small deficit.0 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »Your training approach is pretty solid honestly. You just need to lock in the diet and then give it the proper time you need to drop the weight at a safe rate. Let's do some math to help you figure out (roughly) how much fat to lose (and how long to plan for a cut):
Current Weight: 142lbs
Body Fat Estimate: 20-25%. I going to worst case is and say 25% to "pad" your cut time a bit in order to account for any roadblocks
Desired Body Fat: 15%
25% * 142lbs = 35.5 lbs body fat
(35.5-x)/(142-x)=15%
> solve for x
> ~16.5lbs
Alot 1 week for every pound of fat you want to lose. Any more and you are risking muscle losses
Your cut should take roughly 4 months
this is great btw, thanks a lot
This isn't quite right, as your LBM will also decrease while you lose weight, so to get to 15% BF% assuming you are 25% now you will most likely have to lose 18-25 lbs, depending on how much LBM you lose. A rule of thumb could be 1 lb lbm lost for every 3-4 lbs of fat lost, like on a bulk where you aim for 1:1.
So the Calculation should be more like LBM = 106.5 (.75*142) to get to 15% assuming no lbm lost you do the find for X which is about 16.5 lbs, but if you lose 1 lb of lbm per 4 lbs lost that means you lbm is now:102.5 (106.5-4), so at the 125.5 lbs (142-16.5) you will have a BF% of about 18% (1-102.5/125.5) not 15%.
If you aim for a 24lb loss, say 6 lbs of LBM that would put you at a bf% of 14.8% (100.5/118), so to get to 15% BF% you will have to lose 18-26lbs. to limit lbm loss you will want to get enough protein, take part in a progressive strength training program, and have a relatively small deficit.
Yeah I figured that. Regardless,weighing 125lbs is ridiculous and I won't cut below 130lbs. At that point I'm probably just gonna look to slowly gain and cut again in the future.0 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »Your training approach is pretty solid honestly. You just need to lock in the diet and then give it the proper time you need to drop the weight at a safe rate. Let's do some math to help you figure out (roughly) how much fat to lose (and how long to plan for a cut):
Current Weight: 142lbs
Body Fat Estimate: 20-25%. I going to worst case is and say 25% to "pad" your cut time a bit in order to account for any roadblocks
Desired Body Fat: 15%
25% * 142lbs = 35.5 lbs body fat
(35.5-x)/(142-x)=15%
> solve for x
> ~16.5lbs
Alot 1 week for every pound of fat you want to lose. Any more and you are risking muscle losses
Your cut should take roughly 4 months
this is great btw, thanks a lot
This isn't quite right, as your LBM will also decrease while you lose weight, so to get to 15% BF% assuming you are 25% now you will most likely have to lose 18-25 lbs, depending on how much LBM you lose. A rule of thumb could be 1 lb lbm lost for every 3-4 lbs of fat lost, like on a bulk where you aim for 1:1.
So the Calculation should be more like LBM = 106.5 (.75*142) to get to 15% assuming no lbm lost you do the find for X which is about 16.5 lbs, but if you lose 1 lb of lbm per 4 lbs lost that means you lbm is now:102.5 (106.5-4), so at the 125.5 lbs (142-16.5) you will have a BF% of about 18% (1-102.5/125.5) not 15%.
If you aim for a 24lb loss, say 6 lbs of LBM that would put you at a bf% of 14.8% (100.5/118), so to get to 15% BF% you will have to lose 18-26lbs. to limit lbm loss you will want to get enough protein, take part in a progressive strength training program, and have a relatively small deficit.
You are totally right. Not sure what you did with the math tho......but its an easy fix:
(35.5-x)/(142-x-0.25x)=15%
x=17.47
So really not all that different from my original estimate, adds maybe two weeks0 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »_Bropollo_ wrote: »Your training approach is pretty solid honestly. You just need to lock in the diet and then give it the proper time you need to drop the weight at a safe rate. Let's do some math to help you figure out (roughly) how much fat to lose (and how long to plan for a cut):
Current Weight: 142lbs
Body Fat Estimate: 20-25%. I going to worst case is and say 25% to "pad" your cut time a bit in order to account for any roadblocks
Desired Body Fat: 15%
25% * 142lbs = 35.5 lbs body fat
(35.5-x)/(142-x)=15%
> solve for x
> ~16.5lbs
Alot 1 week for every pound of fat you want to lose. Any more and you are risking muscle losses
Your cut should take roughly 4 months
this is great btw, thanks a lot
This isn't quite right, as your LBM will also decrease while you lose weight, so to get to 15% BF% assuming you are 25% now you will most likely have to lose 18-25 lbs, depending on how much LBM you lose. A rule of thumb could be 1 lb lbm lost for every 3-4 lbs of fat lost, like on a bulk where you aim for 1:1.
So the Calculation should be more like LBM = 106.5 (.75*142) to get to 15% assuming no lbm lost you do the find for X which is about 16.5 lbs, but if you lose 1 lb of lbm per 4 lbs lost that means you lbm is now:102.5 (106.5-4), so at the 125.5 lbs (142-16.5) you will have a BF% of about 18% (1-102.5/125.5) not 15%.
If you aim for a 24lb loss, say 6 lbs of LBM that would put you at a bf% of 14.8% (100.5/118), so to get to 15% BF% you will have to lose 18-26lbs. to limit lbm loss you will want to get enough protein, take part in a progressive strength training program, and have a relatively small deficit.
You are totally right. Not sure what you did with the math tho......but its an easy fix:
(35.5-x)/(142-x-0.25x)=15%
x=17.47
So really not all that different from my original estimate, adds maybe two weeks
so 142-17.5 = 124.5 at 15% that would be 105.8, only a loss of 0.7 lbm, he would more than likely lose much more than that!
My math was saying for every 4 lbs lost one would be lbm (3:1 ratio), then workout out how much they would have to lose to be close to 15%, the answer was just under 20, not 17.5.
Your calculation should be
(35.5-0.75x)/(142-0.25x) = 19.9 lbs or if 4:1 would be (35.5-0.8x)/142-0.2x) 18.4 lbs
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_Bropollo_ wrote: »_Bropollo_ wrote: »Your training approach is pretty solid honestly. You just need to lock in the diet and then give it the proper time you need to drop the weight at a safe rate. Let's do some math to help you figure out (roughly) how much fat to lose (and how long to plan for a cut):
Current Weight: 142lbs
Body Fat Estimate: 20-25%. I going to worst case is and say 25% to "pad" your cut time a bit in order to account for any roadblocks
Desired Body Fat: 15%
25% * 142lbs = 35.5 lbs body fat
(35.5-x)/(142-x)=15%
> solve for x
> ~16.5lbs
Alot 1 week for every pound of fat you want to lose. Any more and you are risking muscle losses
Your cut should take roughly 4 months
this is great btw, thanks a lot
This isn't quite right, as your LBM will also decrease while you lose weight, so to get to 15% BF% assuming you are 25% now you will most likely have to lose 18-25 lbs, depending on how much LBM you lose. A rule of thumb could be 1 lb lbm lost for every 3-4 lbs of fat lost, like on a bulk where you aim for 1:1.
So the Calculation should be more like LBM = 106.5 (.75*142) to get to 15% assuming no lbm lost you do the find for X which is about 16.5 lbs, but if you lose 1 lb of lbm per 4 lbs lost that means you lbm is now:102.5 (106.5-4), so at the 125.5 lbs (142-16.5) you will have a BF% of about 18% (1-102.5/125.5) not 15%.
If you aim for a 24lb loss, say 6 lbs of LBM that would put you at a bf% of 14.8% (100.5/118), so to get to 15% BF% you will have to lose 18-26lbs. to limit lbm loss you will want to get enough protein, take part in a progressive strength training program, and have a relatively small deficit.
You are totally right. Not sure what you did with the math tho......but its an easy fix:
(35.5-x)/(142-x-0.25x)=15%
x=17.47
So really not all that different from my original estimate, adds maybe two weeks
so 142-17.5 = 124.5 at 15% that would be 105.8, only a loss of 0.7 lbm, he would more than likely lose much more than that!
My math was saying for every 4 lbs lost one would be lbm (3:1 ratio), then workout out how much they would have to lose to be close to 15%, the answer was just under 20, not 17.5.
Your calculation should be
(35.5-0.75x)/(142-0.25x) = 19.9 lbs or if 4:1 would be (35.5-0.8x)/142-0.2x) 18.4 lbs
ahh. yup, I see now. Can't use "x" as fat lost anymore once you factor in lbm too. "x" becomes weight, so you have to throw the correct percent it comes out on the top and bottom of the fraction.0
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