clean eating but not meeting guidelines

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  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
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    Packerjohn wrote: »


    Plus, where have I said cake is an unhealthy option???????

    A few quotes up you said:

    "Absolutely not. Cake doesn't make it on my healthier food choice list." ?

    I did say that. But how does that translate to unhealthy??

    No carbs (excessive portions aside) are unhealthy. Therefore it stands to reason that the baseline is 'healthy' and the more micro nutrition a carb can deliver is a healthier choice.

    I hope that has cleared up my meaning of healthier carbs for you and others.

    I'm sure you are in agreement that some carbs (foods made up from carbs) are in fact healthier than others, or do you dispute this - I would be interested to know?

    I dispute it. It depends on the foods' places and uses in the overall diet.

    You dispute that some carbs are healthier than others????

    So just to clarify - you believe all carbs 'gram for gram' offer the exact same level of health benefits?

    Well there's your problem understanding my comments earlier right there.
    Your purported clarification is a pretty egregious misstatement of what I actually wrote.
    That's why I am asking for clarification!

    If you are disputing that some carbs are healthier than others - surely it's the only other view point???

    Either some carbs are healthier than other or they are not (and therefore all equal)!

    Maybe you can explain your view point to clear up any misunderstanding!
    My viewpoint is that carbs, food with carbs, and, indeed, all foods are best evaluated within the context of the overall diet, rather than as items existing in their own little universes. It doesn't make sense to say, "X is healthier than Y" when you don't know what part X or Y is playing in the overall diet at any given time.

    If you already have enough -- macro, micro, whatever -- of whatever X offers, more X isn't necessarily better than some Y, whether X and Y are broccoli, chocolate cake, ribeye, or anything else.

    So, no, your dichotomy is false. Today, broccoli may be the better choice than a kolache. Tomorrow, it may not be.

    Also if you don't follow overly restrictive diets, but just stick with the widely accepted dietary recommendations, you need a hierarchy of choices to draw a healthy "context".
    -eat at least 5 portions of fruit and vegetables per day
    -limit refined grains to no more than 50% of total grain intake
    -limit added/free sugar to no more than 10% of total calorie intake.
    You can certainly make room for kolache in your diet, but there are healthier choices, you have to give the priority first.

    I would say the hierarcy is more like this:
    Appropriate number of calories.
    Safe food.
    Enough fat and protein.
    Enough micronutrients.
    Fiber.
    Varied food.
    Tasty food.
    Exciting food.

    I'm pretty sure Gainfranco-r's hierarchy is from a government website developed by professionals. This should trump the opinion of a random person on a forum.
    The same pros who gave us the low fat stuff? The egg and sodium merry-go-rounds? Newark?

    Your faith in government professionals is touching.

    Sure government research changes. Remember research brought us the news the earth is round. Personally I would rather look at the advice provided by trained professionals in nutrition.
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
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    Did OP ever come back to provide more details?

  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,652 Member
    Options
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »


    Plus, where have I said cake is an unhealthy option???????

    A few quotes up you said:

    "Absolutely not. Cake doesn't make it on my healthier food choice list." ?

    I did say that. But how does that translate to unhealthy??

    No carbs (excessive portions aside) are unhealthy. Therefore it stands to reason that the baseline is 'healthy' and the more micro nutrition a carb can deliver is a healthier choice.

    I hope that has cleared up my meaning of healthier carbs for you and others.

    I'm sure you are in agreement that some carbs (foods made up from carbs) are in fact healthier than others, or do you dispute this - I would be interested to know?

    I dispute it. It depends on the foods' places and uses in the overall diet.

    You dispute that some carbs are healthier than others????

    So just to clarify - you believe all carbs 'gram for gram' offer the exact same level of health benefits?

    Well there's your problem understanding my comments earlier right there.
    Your purported clarification is a pretty egregious misstatement of what I actually wrote.
    That's why I am asking for clarification!

    If you are disputing that some carbs are healthier than others - surely it's the only other view point???

    Either some carbs are healthier than other or they are not (and therefore all equal)!

    Maybe you can explain your view point to clear up any misunderstanding!
    My viewpoint is that carbs, food with carbs, and, indeed, all foods are best evaluated within the context of the overall diet, rather than as items existing in their own little universes. It doesn't make sense to say, "X is healthier than Y" when you don't know what part X or Y is playing in the overall diet at any given time.

    If you already have enough -- macro, micro, whatever -- of whatever X offers, more X isn't necessarily better than some Y, whether X and Y are broccoli, chocolate cake, ribeye, or anything else.

    So, no, your dichotomy is false. Today, broccoli may be the better choice than a kolache. Tomorrow, it may not be.

    Also if you don't follow overly restrictive diets, but just stick with the widely accepted dietary recommendations, you need a hierarchy of choices to draw a healthy "context".
    -eat at least 5 portions of fruit and vegetables per day
    -limit refined grains to no more than 50% of total grain intake
    -limit added/free sugar to no more than 10% of total calorie intake.
    You can certainly make room for kolache in your diet, but there are healthier choices, you have to give the priority first.

    I would say the hierarcy is more like this:
    Appropriate number of calories.
    Safe food.
    Enough fat and protein.
    Enough micronutrients.
    Fiber.
    Varied food.
    Tasty food.
    Exciting food.

    I'm pretty sure Gainfranco-r's hierarchy is from a government website developed by professionals. This should trump the opinion of a random person on a forum.
    The same pros who gave us the low fat stuff? The egg and sodium merry-go-rounds? Newark?

    Your faith in government professionals is touching.

    Sure government research changes. Remember research brought us the news the earth is round. Personally I would rather look at the advice provided by trained professionals in nutrition.
    If by "research" you mean "people observed that the bottom parts of objects moving away from them disappeared before the top parts, rather than all of the object fading from view simultaneously" then, yeah, "research" brought us that knowledge.

  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    Options
    No such thing as a bad carb. But if I were you I'd try and up my protein, just for satitey. Fruit won't keep you full. Almonds or greek yogurt tends to do more to keep you satisified.

    There are nutrient dense carbs and carbs that have few nutrients. People need to recognize this fact and adjust their intake accordingly.
  • Kalikel
    Kalikel Posts: 9,626 Member
    Options
    Eating nutrient dense foods is GREAT. Definitely good to choose more nutrient dense, high fiber carbs than nutrient poor low fiber carbs (boy that's a mouthful, too bad there's not an easier way to say all that lol).
    That said, if meeting your macros is important to you, then eat more protein and fat. Add some avocado instead of traditional fruits (since avocado is a fruit). Add some nuts. Find more protein sources. Or, if you feel like you're getting enough protein, don't sweat it.

    But good job building your diet around nutrient dense foods!

    That's my answer.

    Personally, I eat a lot of fruit, so my sugar number is high. I don't even look at it any longer. I eat a lot of veggies, too, so with both of them, my carbs are way high. I don't care about meeting the macro numbers, so it works for me. :)
  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,652 Member
    Options
    shell1005 wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »


    Plus, where have I said cake is an unhealthy option???????

    A few quotes up you said:

    "Absolutely not. Cake doesn't make it on my healthier food choice list." ?

    I did say that. But how does that translate to unhealthy??

    No carbs (excessive portions aside) are unhealthy. Therefore it stands to reason that the baseline is 'healthy' and the more micro nutrition a carb can deliver is a healthier choice.

    I hope that has cleared up my meaning of healthier carbs for you and others.

    I'm sure you are in agreement that some carbs (foods made up from carbs) are in fact healthier than others, or do you dispute this - I would be interested to know?

    I dispute it. It depends on the foods' places and uses in the overall diet.

    You dispute that some carbs are healthier than others????

    So just to clarify - you believe all carbs 'gram for gram' offer the exact same level of health benefits?

    Well there's your problem understanding my comments earlier right there.
    Your purported clarification is a pretty egregious misstatement of what I actually wrote.
    That's why I am asking for clarification!

    If you are disputing that some carbs are healthier than others - surely it's the only other view point???

    Either some carbs are healthier than other or they are not (and therefore all equal)!

    Maybe you can explain your view point to clear up any misunderstanding!
    My viewpoint is that carbs, food with carbs, and, indeed, all foods are best evaluated within the context of the overall diet, rather than as items existing in their own little universes. It doesn't make sense to say, "X is healthier than Y" when you don't know what part X or Y is playing in the overall diet at any given time.

    If you already have enough -- macro, micro, whatever -- of whatever X offers, more X isn't necessarily better than some Y, whether X and Y are broccoli, chocolate cake, ribeye, or anything else.

    So, no, your dichotomy is false. Today, broccoli may be the better choice than a kolache. Tomorrow, it may not be.

    Also if you don't follow overly restrictive diets, but just stick with the widely accepted dietary recommendations, you need a hierarchy of choices to draw a healthy "context".
    -eat at least 5 portions of fruit and vegetables per day
    -limit refined grains to no more than 50% of total grain intake
    -limit added/free sugar to no more than 10% of total calorie intake.
    You can certainly make room for kolache in your diet, but there are healthier choices, you have to give the priority first.

    I would say the hierarcy is more like this:
    Appropriate number of calories.
    Safe food.
    Enough fat and protein.
    Enough micronutrients.
    Fiber.
    Varied food.
    Tasty food.
    Exciting food.

    I'm pretty sure Gainfranco-r's hierarchy is from a government website developed by professionals. This should trump the opinion of a random person on a forum.
    The same pros who gave us the low fat stuff? The egg and sodium merry-go-rounds? Newark?

    Your faith in government professionals is touching.

    Sure government research changes. Remember research brought us the news the earth is round. Personally I would rather look at the advice provided by trained professionals in nutrition.

    I'd rather take the advice of people who have shown a history of success.
    Crazy talk. Straight up.

  • Gianfranco_R
    Gianfranco_R Posts: 1,297 Member
    Options
    shell1005 wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »


    Plus, where have I said cake is an unhealthy option???????

    A few quotes up you said:

    "Absolutely not. Cake doesn't make it on my healthier food choice list." ?

    I did say that. But how does that translate to unhealthy??

    No carbs (excessive portions aside) are unhealthy. Therefore it stands to reason that the baseline is 'healthy' and the more micro nutrition a carb can deliver is a healthier choice.

    I hope that has cleared up my meaning of healthier carbs for you and others.

    I'm sure you are in agreement that some carbs (foods made up from carbs) are in fact healthier than others, or do you dispute this - I would be interested to know?

    I dispute it. It depends on the foods' places and uses in the overall diet.

    You dispute that some carbs are healthier than others????

    So just to clarify - you believe all carbs 'gram for gram' offer the exact same level of health benefits?

    Well there's your problem understanding my comments earlier right there.
    Your purported clarification is a pretty egregious misstatement of what I actually wrote.
    That's why I am asking for clarification!

    If you are disputing that some carbs are healthier than others - surely it's the only other view point???

    Either some carbs are healthier than other or they are not (and therefore all equal)!

    Maybe you can explain your view point to clear up any misunderstanding!
    My viewpoint is that carbs, food with carbs, and, indeed, all foods are best evaluated within the context of the overall diet, rather than as items existing in their own little universes. It doesn't make sense to say, "X is healthier than Y" when you don't know what part X or Y is playing in the overall diet at any given time.

    If you already have enough -- macro, micro, whatever -- of whatever X offers, more X isn't necessarily better than some Y, whether X and Y are broccoli, chocolate cake, ribeye, or anything else.

    So, no, your dichotomy is false. Today, broccoli may be the better choice than a kolache. Tomorrow, it may not be.

    Also if you don't follow overly restrictive diets, but just stick with the widely accepted dietary recommendations, you need a hierarchy of choices to draw a healthy "context".
    -eat at least 5 portions of fruit and vegetables per day
    -limit refined grains to no more than 50% of total grain intake
    -limit added/free sugar to no more than 10% of total calorie intake.
    You can certainly make room for kolache in your diet, but there are healthier choices, you have to give the priority first.

    I would say the hierarcy is more like this:
    Appropriate number of calories.
    Safe food.
    Enough fat and protein.
    Enough micronutrients.
    Fiber.
    Varied food.
    Tasty food.
    Exciting food.

    I'm pretty sure Gainfranco-r's hierarchy is from a government website developed by professionals. This should trump the opinion of a random person on a forum.
    The same pros who gave us the low fat stuff? The egg and sodium merry-go-rounds? Newark?

    Your faith in government professionals is touching.

    Sure government research changes. Remember research brought us the news the earth is round. Personally I would rather look at the advice provided by trained professionals in nutrition.

    I'd rather take the advice of people who have shown a history of success.

    well, I'm 47 and I've never been overweight. Not ever a single gram. That's success, in my book.
  • rockmama72
    rockmama72 Posts: 815 Member
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    jgnatca wrote: »
    *ahem*
    OP a couple pages back you asked if you were keeping to a fairly "whole food" diet and close to your calorie goal, how can your macros be unbalanced? As a person with diabetic training I can answer that.

    Besides their relative refinement or otherwise, and their relative calories, different foods have different macro ratios. Take the potato, bald. It is mostly carb. Add cheese and you have fat and a little protein. Add chilli on top and you have even more protein. The potato, beans and tomato all contribute fiber as well.

    I was trained to get as many macros, balanced, in every meal. When I balance my macros in every meal they will even out, fairly well, at the end of the day.

    You will lose weight, regardless of the macro balance and regardless of the "wholeness" of the foods, if you stick fairly close to the calorie goal.

    If you eat potatoes, bald, all day, your macros will be unbalanced. Depending how many you ate will determine if you went over on your calories. It will be a "whole food" day.

    Well said. The potato-plus-toppings example is very helpful!
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    Options
    shell1005 wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »


    Plus, where have I said cake is an unhealthy option???????

    A few quotes up you said:

    "Absolutely not. Cake doesn't make it on my healthier food choice list." ?

    I did say that. But how does that translate to unhealthy??

    No carbs (excessive portions aside) are unhealthy. Therefore it stands to reason that the baseline is 'healthy' and the more micro nutrition a carb can deliver is a healthier choice.

    I hope that has cleared up my meaning of healthier carbs for you and others.

    I'm sure you are in agreement that some carbs (foods made up from carbs) are in fact healthier than others, or do you dispute this - I would be interested to know?

    I dispute it. It depends on the foods' places and uses in the overall diet.

    You dispute that some carbs are healthier than others????

    So just to clarify - you believe all carbs 'gram for gram' offer the exact same level of health benefits?

    Well there's your problem understanding my comments earlier right there.
    Your purported clarification is a pretty egregious misstatement of what I actually wrote.
    That's why I am asking for clarification!

    If you are disputing that some carbs are healthier than others - surely it's the only other view point???

    Either some carbs are healthier than other or they are not (and therefore all equal)!

    Maybe you can explain your view point to clear up any misunderstanding!
    My viewpoint is that carbs, food with carbs, and, indeed, all foods are best evaluated within the context of the overall diet, rather than as items existing in their own little universes. It doesn't make sense to say, "X is healthier than Y" when you don't know what part X or Y is playing in the overall diet at any given time.

    If you already have enough -- macro, micro, whatever -- of whatever X offers, more X isn't necessarily better than some Y, whether X and Y are broccoli, chocolate cake, ribeye, or anything else.

    So, no, your dichotomy is false. Today, broccoli may be the better choice than a kolache. Tomorrow, it may not be.

    Also if you don't follow overly restrictive diets, but just stick with the widely accepted dietary recommendations, you need a hierarchy of choices to draw a healthy "context".
    -eat at least 5 portions of fruit and vegetables per day
    -limit refined grains to no more than 50% of total grain intake
    -limit added/free sugar to no more than 10% of total calorie intake.
    You can certainly make room for kolache in your diet, but there are healthier choices, you have to give the priority first.

    I would say the hierarcy is more like this:
    Appropriate number of calories.
    Safe food.
    Enough fat and protein.
    Enough micronutrients.
    Fiber.
    Varied food.
    Tasty food.
    Exciting food.

    I'm pretty sure Gainfranco-r's hierarchy is from a government website developed by professionals. This should trump the opinion of a random person on a forum.
    The same pros who gave us the low fat stuff? The egg and sodium merry-go-rounds? Newark?

    Your faith in government professionals is touching.

    Sure government research changes. Remember research brought us the news the earth is round. Personally I would rather look at the advice provided by trained professionals in nutrition.

    I'd rather take the advice of people who have shown a history of success.

    well, I'm 47 and I've never been overweight. Not ever a single gram. That's success, in my book.

    I'm 59 and haven't been overweight. I would also consider that success.
  • Annie_01
    Annie_01 Posts: 3,096 Member
    Options
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Did OP ever come back to provide more details?

    Why would she? This thread is no longer about her question.
  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,652 Member
    Options
    Annie_01 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Did OP ever come back to provide more details?

    Why would she? This thread is no longer about her question.
    Because she couldn't know what's been posted unless she came back and providing more details would make it about her question.

  • galprincess
    galprincess Posts: 682 Member
    Options
    1200 calories in my personal opinion would make it difficult to be healthy if your exercising too! Unless your 4ft 10!
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
    edited October 2015
    Options
    Packerjohn wrote: »


    Plus, where have I said cake is an unhealthy option???????

    A few quotes up you said:

    "Absolutely not. Cake doesn't make it on my healthier food choice list." ?

    I did say that. But how does that translate to unhealthy??

    No carbs (excessive portions aside) are unhealthy. Therefore it stands to reason that the baseline is 'healthy' and the more micro nutrition a carb can deliver is a healthier choice.

    I hope that has cleared up my meaning of healthier carbs for you and others.

    I'm sure you are in agreement that some carbs (foods made up from carbs) are in fact healthier than others, or do you dispute this - I would be interested to know?

    I dispute it. It depends on the foods' places and uses in the overall diet.

    You dispute that some carbs are healthier than others????

    So just to clarify - you believe all carbs 'gram for gram' offer the exact same level of health benefits?

    Well there's your problem understanding my comments earlier right there.
    Your purported clarification is a pretty egregious misstatement of what I actually wrote.
    That's why I am asking for clarification!

    If you are disputing that some carbs are healthier than others - surely it's the only other view point???

    Either some carbs are healthier than other or they are not (and therefore all equal)!

    Maybe you can explain your view point to clear up any misunderstanding!
    My viewpoint is that carbs, food with carbs, and, indeed, all foods are best evaluated within the context of the overall diet, rather than as items existing in their own little universes. It doesn't make sense to say, "X is healthier than Y" when you don't know what part X or Y is playing in the overall diet at any given time.

    If you already have enough -- macro, micro, whatever -- of whatever X offers, more X isn't necessarily better than some Y, whether X and Y are broccoli, chocolate cake, ribeye, or anything else.

    So, no, your dichotomy is false. Today, broccoli may be the better choice than a kolache. Tomorrow, it may not be.

    Also if you don't follow overly restrictive diets, but just stick with the widely accepted dietary recommendations, you need a hierarchy of choices to draw a healthy "context".
    -eat at least 5 portions of fruit and vegetables per day
    -limit refined grains to no more than 50% of total grain intake
    -limit added/free sugar to no more than 10% of total calorie intake.
    You can certainly make room for kolache in your diet, but there are healthier choices, you have to give the priority first.

    I would say the hierarcy is more like this:
    Appropriate number of calories.
    Safe food.
    Enough fat and protein.
    Enough micronutrients.
    Fiber.
    Varied food.
    Tasty food.
    Exciting food.

    I'm pretty sure Gainfranco-r's hierarchy is from a government website developed by professionals. This should trump the opinion of a random person on a forum.

    You have a wee too much faith in our government. I have more success lurking in these threads and learning what works and what does not. You know, the successful. Yay me!!


    0ecuma3oj547.jpeg
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    edited October 2015
    Options
    shell1005 wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    Sure government research changes. Remember research brought us the news the earth is round. Personally I would rather look at the advice provided by trained professionals in nutrition.
    I'd rather take the advice of people who have shown a history of success.
    The problem with personal testimonials as that their success may not translate to your situation. It's evidence of one. I'm a success. I did it by following conventional advice;The Canada Food Guide.
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    Options
    Annie_01 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Did OP ever come back to provide more details?

    Why would she? This thread is no longer about her question.

    Hard to make it about her question when her question didn't provide enough relevant details to begin with. People have to make guesses as to what she means when she says her macros are off before lunch and dinner and that she is over 1200 even though she's exercising.

    Not to mention the use of the nebulous and polarizing term "clean eating" brings out many opinions.

    OP if you are still reading along, giving us more details about what your day looks like, what macro ratios you are striving for, how many pounds you're trying to lose, are you eating back exercise calories, etc might help get the discussion back on topic and become helpful for you.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Options
    Packerjohn wrote: »


    Plus, where have I said cake is an unhealthy option???????

    A few quotes up you said:

    "Absolutely not. Cake doesn't make it on my healthier food choice list." ?

    I did say that. But how does that translate to unhealthy??

    No carbs (excessive portions aside) are unhealthy. Therefore it stands to reason that the baseline is 'healthy' and the more micro nutrition a carb can deliver is a healthier choice.

    I hope that has cleared up my meaning of healthier carbs for you and others.

    I'm sure you are in agreement that some carbs (foods made up from carbs) are in fact healthier than others, or do you dispute this - I would be interested to know?

    I dispute it. It depends on the foods' places and uses in the overall diet.

    You dispute that some carbs are healthier than others????

    So just to clarify - you believe all carbs 'gram for gram' offer the exact same level of health benefits?

    Well there's your problem understanding my comments earlier right there.
    Your purported clarification is a pretty egregious misstatement of what I actually wrote.
    That's why I am asking for clarification!

    If you are disputing that some carbs are healthier than others - surely it's the only other view point???

    Either some carbs are healthier than other or they are not (and therefore all equal)!

    Maybe you can explain your view point to clear up any misunderstanding!
    My viewpoint is that carbs, food with carbs, and, indeed, all foods are best evaluated within the context of the overall diet, rather than as items existing in their own little universes. It doesn't make sense to say, "X is healthier than Y" when you don't know what part X or Y is playing in the overall diet at any given time.

    If you already have enough -- macro, micro, whatever -- of whatever X offers, more X isn't necessarily better than some Y, whether X and Y are broccoli, chocolate cake, ribeye, or anything else.

    So, no, your dichotomy is false. Today, broccoli may be the better choice than a kolache. Tomorrow, it may not be.

    Also if you don't follow overly restrictive diets, but just stick with the widely accepted dietary recommendations, you need a hierarchy of choices to draw a healthy "context".
    -eat at least 5 portions of fruit and vegetables per day
    -limit refined grains to no more than 50% of total grain intake
    -limit added/free sugar to no more than 10% of total calorie intake.
    You can certainly make room for kolache in your diet, but there are healthier choices, you have to give the priority first.

    I would say the hierarcy is more like this:
    Appropriate number of calories.
    Safe food.
    Enough fat and protein.
    Enough micronutrients.
    Fiber.
    Varied food.
    Tasty food.
    Exciting food.

    I'm pretty sure Gainfranco-r's hierarchy is from a government website developed by professionals. This should trump the opinion of a random person on a forum.

    Perhaps you could explain how kommodevan's isn't good, then.

    Seems to me it would accomplish what Gianfranco's does, whereas his might not accomplish everything kommodevan's does. The gov't guidelines are supposed to be simple ways to help people improve their diets, and they are sensible enough, but they don't account for everything important.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    Options
    Annie_01 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Did OP ever come back to provide more details?

    Why would she? This thread is no longer about her question.

    A number of us addressed her question and asked follow up questions.
  • senecarr
    senecarr Posts: 5,377 Member
    Options
    Packerjohn wrote: »


    Plus, where have I said cake is an unhealthy option???????

    A few quotes up you said:

    "Absolutely not. Cake doesn't make it on my healthier food choice list." ?

    I did say that. But how does that translate to unhealthy??

    No carbs (excessive portions aside) are unhealthy. Therefore it stands to reason that the baseline is 'healthy' and the more micro nutrition a carb can deliver is a healthier choice.

    I hope that has cleared up my meaning of healthier carbs for you and others.

    I'm sure you are in agreement that some carbs (foods made up from carbs) are in fact healthier than others, or do you dispute this - I would be interested to know?

    I dispute it. It depends on the foods' places and uses in the overall diet.

    You dispute that some carbs are healthier than others????

    So just to clarify - you believe all carbs 'gram for gram' offer the exact same level of health benefits?

    Well there's your problem understanding my comments earlier right there.
    Your purported clarification is a pretty egregious misstatement of what I actually wrote.
    That's why I am asking for clarification!

    If you are disputing that some carbs are healthier than others - surely it's the only other view point???

    Either some carbs are healthier than other or they are not (and therefore all equal)!

    Maybe you can explain your view point to clear up any misunderstanding!
    My viewpoint is that carbs, food with carbs, and, indeed, all foods are best evaluated within the context of the overall diet, rather than as items existing in their own little universes. It doesn't make sense to say, "X is healthier than Y" when you don't know what part X or Y is playing in the overall diet at any given time.

    If you already have enough -- macro, micro, whatever -- of whatever X offers, more X isn't necessarily better than some Y, whether X and Y are broccoli, chocolate cake, ribeye, or anything else.

    So, no, your dichotomy is false. Today, broccoli may be the better choice than a kolache. Tomorrow, it may not be.

    Also if you don't follow overly restrictive diets, but just stick with the widely accepted dietary recommendations, you need a hierarchy of choices to draw a healthy "context".
    -eat at least 5 portions of fruit and vegetables per day
    -limit refined grains to no more than 50% of total grain intake
    -limit added/free sugar to no more than 10% of total calorie intake.
    You can certainly make room for kolache in your diet, but there are healthier choices, you have to give the priority first.

    I would say the hierarcy is more like this:
    Appropriate number of calories.
    Safe food.
    Enough fat and protein.
    Enough micronutrients.
    Fiber.
    Varied food.
    Tasty food.
    Exciting food.

    I'm pretty sure Gainfranco-r's hierarchy is from a government website developed by professionals. This should trump the opinion of a random person on a forum.

    Different horses for different courses. There are government dietary recommendations like limit refined grains, limit added sugars, and eat at least 5 fruits and veggies. They're generally simplified and easy to act upon suggestions that lead towards eating patterns that naturally and with little effort lead to results similar to kommodevaran's own hierarchy.
    I'd say kommodevaran's hierarchy is better, but it does have the caveat that it requires a deeper understanding of nutrition and more attention paid to specifics of food (tracking calories, macros, etc) to accomplish.