Bulking Up - Lose the Fat First?
drewmaczko
Posts: 23 Member
I'm ten pounds from my goal weight, but I'm afraid I'm losing muscle mass along with the fat. Should I continue the fat loss diet before bulking up and adding the muscle weight back on after that?
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Replies
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It seems most people have an easier time losing weight then gaining muscle after. I would say meet your initial goal first. If that is to lose the last 10 pounds, stick to that. It is ultimately your decision though.0
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drewmaczko wrote: »I'm ten pounds from my goal weight, but I'm afraid I'm losing muscle mass along with the fat. Should I continue the fat loss diet before bulking up and adding the muscle weight back on after that?
You need to be taking steps to cut and not just lose weight if you want to keep muscle. A cut involves:
-A calorie deficit of no more than 20% under maintenance
-Frequent lifting. You should be hitting the same muscle groups roughly every 48 hrs.
-Adequate protein. Aim for 0.8g/lbs of bodyweight
Made a similar post here: community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/comment/34478272#Comment_344782720 -
The other thing I'd add is to consider not weight, but BF% when considering if it's time to bulk or continue to cut.
If you're 15% or so or under BF, then you're probably good to go with a bulk. If over 15%, it's probably best to cut down a little more (using the advice @_Bropollo_ gave you above) first.0 -
Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?0 -
Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?
Thanks everyone for the advice. It's being taken seriously.
I've been lifting and exercising for several years. I hit plateau some time ago, took time off from lifting, went back. Saw some gain, but nothing impressive. This is my first attempt to cut calories and trim up to see what's under the later of fat. I'm 54 years old, too, so it's not easy like it was even just 5 years ago. I am seeing fat reduction results pretty easily, but I prefer myself heavier - but muscle heavy, not fat-heavy.0 -
drewmaczko wrote: »Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?
Thanks everyone for the advice. It's being taken seriously.
I've been lifting and exercising for several years. I hit plateau some time ago, took time off from lifting, went back. Saw some gain, but nothing impressive. This is my first attempt to cut calories and trim up to see what's under the later of fat. I'm 54 years old, too, so it's not easy like it was even just 5 years ago. I am seeing fat reduction results pretty easily, but I prefer myself heavier - but muscle heavy, not fat-heavy.
My apologies then if you are already lifting. Wasn't sure but assumed you weren't. That's my mistake.0 -
drewmaczko wrote: »Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?
Thanks everyone for the advice. It's being taken seriously.
I've been lifting and exercising for several years. I hit plateau some time ago, took time off from lifting, went back. Saw some gain, but nothing impressive. This is my first attempt to cut calories and trim up to see what's under the later of fat. I'm 54 years old, too, so it's not easy like it was even just 5 years ago. I am seeing fat reduction results pretty easily, but I prefer myself heavier - but muscle heavy, not fat-heavy.
What kind of lifting routine are you following?0 -
drewmaczko wrote: »Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?
Thanks everyone for the advice. It's being taken seriously.
I've been lifting and exercising for several years. I hit plateau some time ago, took time off from lifting, went back. Saw some gain, but nothing impressive. This is my first attempt to cut calories and trim up to see what's under the later of fat. I'm 54 years old, too, so it's not easy like it was even just 5 years ago. I am seeing fat reduction results pretty easily, but I prefer myself heavier - but muscle heavy, not fat-heavy.
My apologies then if you are already lifting. Wasn't sure but assumed you weren't. That's my mistake.
No need to apologize.0 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »drewmaczko wrote: »Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?
Thanks everyone for the advice. It's being taken seriously.
I've been lifting and exercising for several years. I hit plateau some time ago, took time off from lifting, went back. Saw some gain, but nothing impressive. This is my first attempt to cut calories and trim up to see what's under the later of fat. I'm 54 years old, too, so it's not easy like it was even just 5 years ago. I am seeing fat reduction results pretty easily, but I prefer myself heavier - but muscle heavy, not fat-heavy.
What kind of lifting routine are you following?
I lift 4 days per week with cardio on the fifth. Two days off. Chest, triceps and shoulders Monday and Thursday, back, biceps and legs on Tuesday and Friday. Been doing medium weight and high reps, 12-15, 5 sets each . Not quite total failure by the end, but enough to feel a burn.0 -
drewmaczko wrote: »_Bropollo_ wrote: »drewmaczko wrote: »Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?
Thanks everyone for the advice. It's being taken seriously.
I've been lifting and exercising for several years. I hit plateau some time ago, took time off from lifting, went back. Saw some gain, but nothing impressive. This is my first attempt to cut calories and trim up to see what's under the later of fat. I'm 54 years old, too, so it's not easy like it was even just 5 years ago. I am seeing fat reduction results pretty easily, but I prefer myself heavier - but muscle heavy, not fat-heavy.
What kind of lifting routine are you following?
I lift 4 days per week with cardio on the fifth. Two days off. Chest, triceps and shoulders Monday and Thursday, back, biceps and legs on Tuesday and Friday. Been doing medium weight and high reps, 12-15, 5 sets each . Not quite total failure by the end, but enough to feel a burn.
is this a structured program or one that you designed on your own ....?0 -
drewmaczko wrote: »_Bropollo_ wrote: »drewmaczko wrote: »Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?
Thanks everyone for the advice. It's being taken seriously.
I've been lifting and exercising for several years. I hit plateau some time ago, took time off from lifting, went back. Saw some gain, but nothing impressive. This is my first attempt to cut calories and trim up to see what's under the later of fat. I'm 54 years old, too, so it's not easy like it was even just 5 years ago. I am seeing fat reduction results pretty easily, but I prefer myself heavier - but muscle heavy, not fat-heavy.
What kind of lifting routine are you following?
I lift 4 days per week with cardio on the fifth. Two days off. Chest, triceps and shoulders Monday and Thursday, back, biceps and legs on Tuesday and Friday. Been doing medium weight and high reps, 12-15, 5 sets each . Not quite total failure by the end, but enough to feel a burn.
Are you making sure to include progressive overload into the program? Try alternating between higher rep days (hypertrophy) and strength days where you slap on 5-10lbs (depending on the lift obvisously) and do reps in the 5-8 range. You need to be constantly pushing to add more weight to not stall. Having a spotter can really help bust plateaus, as does switching up your routine and trying new lifts.0 -
drewmaczko wrote: »_Bropollo_ wrote: »drewmaczko wrote: »Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?
Thanks everyone for the advice. It's being taken seriously.
I've been lifting and exercising for several years. I hit plateau some time ago, took time off from lifting, went back. Saw some gain, but nothing impressive. This is my first attempt to cut calories and trim up to see what's under the later of fat. I'm 54 years old, too, so it's not easy like it was even just 5 years ago. I am seeing fat reduction results pretty easily, but I prefer myself heavier - but muscle heavy, not fat-heavy.
What kind of lifting routine are you following?
I lift 4 days per week with cardio on the fifth. Two days off. Chest, triceps and shoulders Monday and Thursday, back, biceps and legs on Tuesday and Friday. Been doing medium weight and high reps, 12-15, 5 sets each . Not quite total failure by the end, but enough to feel a burn.
is this a structured program or one that you designed on your own ....?
This is my own program based upon other, structured programs from trainers at various gyms.0 -
_Bropollo_ wrote: »drewmaczko wrote: »_Bropollo_ wrote: »drewmaczko wrote: »Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?
Thanks everyone for the advice. It's being taken seriously.
I've been lifting and exercising for several years. I hit plateau some time ago, took time off from lifting, went back. Saw some gain, but nothing impressive. This is my first attempt to cut calories and trim up to see what's under the later of fat. I'm 54 years old, too, so it's not easy like it was even just 5 years ago. I am seeing fat reduction results pretty easily, but I prefer myself heavier - but muscle heavy, not fat-heavy.
What kind of lifting routine are you following?
I lift 4 days per week with cardio on the fifth. Two days off. Chest, triceps and shoulders Monday and Thursday, back, biceps and legs on Tuesday and Friday. Been doing medium weight and high reps, 12-15, 5 sets each . Not quite total failure by the end, but enough to feel a burn.
Are you making sure to include progressive overload into the program? Try alternating between higher rep days (hypertrophy) and strength days where you slap on 5-10lbs (depending on the lift obvisously) and do reps in the 5-8 range. You need to be constantly pushing to add more weight to not stall. Having a spotter can really help bust plateaus, as does switching up your routine and trying new lifts.
I'll do that. Thank you0 -
drewmaczko wrote: »drewmaczko wrote: »_Bropollo_ wrote: »drewmaczko wrote: »Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?
Thanks everyone for the advice. It's being taken seriously.
I've been lifting and exercising for several years. I hit plateau some time ago, took time off from lifting, went back. Saw some gain, but nothing impressive. This is my first attempt to cut calories and trim up to see what's under the later of fat. I'm 54 years old, too, so it's not easy like it was even just 5 years ago. I am seeing fat reduction results pretty easily, but I prefer myself heavier - but muscle heavy, not fat-heavy.
What kind of lifting routine are you following?
I lift 4 days per week with cardio on the fifth. Two days off. Chest, triceps and shoulders Monday and Thursday, back, biceps and legs on Tuesday and Friday. Been doing medium weight and high reps, 12-15, 5 sets each . Not quite total failure by the end, but enough to feel a burn.
is this a structured program or one that you designed on your own ....?
This is my own program based upon other, structured programs from trainers at various gyms.
I would suggest going with an actual structured program like power/muscle/burn, PHUL, wendler 5/3/1, etc...0 -
drewmaczko wrote: »drewmaczko wrote: »_Bropollo_ wrote: »drewmaczko wrote: »Continue eating at a deficit, start lifting now. Assuming you are new to lifting you should see some initial noob gains and you will just generally "feel" a bit more defined due to the muscles getting activated and holding some water. I would say do this till you get to your goal weight and then reevaluate. Combined with what _Bropollo_ said, you should be good to go.
Are you currently lifting?
Thanks everyone for the advice. It's being taken seriously.
I've been lifting and exercising for several years. I hit plateau some time ago, took time off from lifting, went back. Saw some gain, but nothing impressive. This is my first attempt to cut calories and trim up to see what's under the later of fat. I'm 54 years old, too, so it's not easy like it was even just 5 years ago. I am seeing fat reduction results pretty easily, but I prefer myself heavier - but muscle heavy, not fat-heavy.
What kind of lifting routine are you following?
I lift 4 days per week with cardio on the fifth. Two days off. Chest, triceps and shoulders Monday and Thursday, back, biceps and legs on Tuesday and Friday. Been doing medium weight and high reps, 12-15, 5 sets each . Not quite total failure by the end, but enough to feel a burn.
is this a structured program or one that you designed on your own ....?
This is my own program based upon other, structured programs from trainers at various gyms.
I would suggest going with an actual structured program like power/muscle/burn, PHUL, wendler 5/3/1, etc...
I'll look those up0 -
I don't know how others will feel about it, but if you are going to lift 4 days, look up a good 4 day split routine. I've been doing a 5 day, focusing on the first 2 sets for strength and size. Chest: I'll do bench press for 5 sets of 5 at a heavy weight for strength. Then do incline dumb bells for 5 sets of 10 for size/growth. I feel like that activates the fibers enough and then I just do what I feel like doing as far as chest exercises and I just try to wear my chest out and focus heavy on isolation and time under tension. The first 2 exercises always stay consistent though. Each body part has it's own day and standard 2 exercises. For me, this keeps me from getting bored and allows me to incorporate new lifts and keep things fresh.0
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I don't know how others will feel about it, but if you are going to lift 4 days, look up a good 4 day split routine. I've been doing a 5 day, focusing on the first 2 sets for strength and size. Chest: I'll do bench press for 5 sets of 5 at a heavy weight for strength. Then do incline dumb bells for 5 sets of 10 for size/growth. I feel like that activates the fibers enough and then I just do what I feel like doing as far as chest exercises and I just try to wear my chest out and focus heavy on isolation and time under tension. The first 2 exercises always stay consistent though. Each body part has it's own day and standard 2 exercises. For me, this keeps me from getting bored and allows me to incorporate new lifts and keep things fresh.
I'm going to give it a shot. Thanks0 -
I don't know how others will feel about it, but if you are going to lift 4 days, look up a good 4 day split routine. I've been doing a 5 day, focusing on the first 2 sets for strength and size. Chest: I'll do bench press for 5 sets of 5 at a heavy weight for strength. Then do incline dumb bells for 5 sets of 10 for size/growth. I feel like that activates the fibers enough and then I just do what I feel like doing as far as chest exercises and I just try to wear my chest out and focus heavy on isolation and time under tension. The first 2 exercises always stay consistent though. Each body part has it's own day and standard 2 exercises. For me, this keeps me from getting bored and allows me to incorporate new lifts and keep things fresh.
Do you recommend doing the heavy weights at low reps first, and then the lighter reps at the end?0 -
drewmaczko wrote: »I don't know how others will feel about it, but if you are going to lift 4 days, look up a good 4 day split routine. I've been doing a 5 day, focusing on the first 2 sets for strength and size. Chest: I'll do bench press for 5 sets of 5 at a heavy weight for strength. Then do incline dumb bells for 5 sets of 10 for size/growth. I feel like that activates the fibers enough and then I just do what I feel like doing as far as chest exercises and I just try to wear my chest out and focus heavy on isolation and time under tension. The first 2 exercises always stay consistent though. Each body part has it's own day and standard 2 exercises. For me, this keeps me from getting bored and allows me to incorporate new lifts and keep things fresh.
Do you recommend doing the heavy weights at low reps first, and then the lighter reps at the end?
I believe that is the PHUL program. So you have a power day (strength) and a hypertrophy day (size)...on power days you do lower reps, on hypertrophy days you do higher reps...0 -
drewmaczko wrote: »I don't know how others will feel about it, but if you are going to lift 4 days, look up a good 4 day split routine. I've been doing a 5 day, focusing on the first 2 sets for strength and size. Chest: I'll do bench press for 5 sets of 5 at a heavy weight for strength. Then do incline dumb bells for 5 sets of 10 for size/growth. I feel like that activates the fibers enough and then I just do what I feel like doing as far as chest exercises and I just try to wear my chest out and focus heavy on isolation and time under tension. The first 2 exercises always stay consistent though. Each body part has it's own day and standard 2 exercises. For me, this keeps me from getting bored and allows me to incorporate new lifts and keep things fresh.
Do you recommend doing the heavy weights at low reps first, and then the lighter reps at the end?
I stay in the 8-12 rep range usually. I really just focus on form and isolating and wearing out my muscles. I may do a bit lighter weights some days and take shorter rests, or some days I will do more of the 8 rep range and take a bit longer rests. I just mix it up.0 -
Also, please know that there are tons of people on here with as much and more knowledge than me. I am just throwing out there what I am currently doing and have been enjoying more than most other plans I have done.0
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Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to guide me here. I'm anxious to get these new pointers in action!0
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I'm doing just what I posted, knucklehead...
I've been doing a 5 day, focusing on the first 2 sets for strength and size. Chest: I'll do bench press for 5 sets of 5 at a heavy weight for strength. Then do incline dumb bells for 5 sets of 10 for size/growth. I feel like that activates the fibers enough and then I just do what I feel like doing as far as chest exercises and I just try to wear my chest out and focus heavy on isolation and time under tension. The first 2 exercises always stay consistent though. Each body part has it's own day and standard 2 exercises. For me, this keeps me from getting bored and allows me to incorporate new lifts and keep things fresh.
It's the "Hornsby" method....you haven't read the book? lol0 -
I'm doing just what I posted, knucklehead...I've been doing a 5 day, focusing on the first 2 sets for strength and size. Chest: I'll do bench press for 5 sets of 5 at a heavy weight for strength. Then do incline dumb bells for 5 sets of 10 for size/growth. I feel like that activates the fibers enough and then I just do what I feel like doing as far as chest exercises and I just try to wear my chest out and focus heavy on isolation and time under tension. The first 2 exercises always stay consistent though. Each body part has it's own day and standard 2 exercises. For me, this keeps me from getting bored and allows me to incorporate new lifts and keep things fresh.
It's the "Hornsby" method....you haven't read the book? lol
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drewmaczko wrote: »I'm ten pounds from my goal weight, but I'm afraid I'm losing muscle mass along with the fat. Should I continue the fat loss diet before bulking up and adding the muscle weight back on after that?
While health wise it may be good to stop losing for a while and rebuild some of your loss muscle I think either way would work. I did stop at 200 and worked my way back up to 210 and now will drive for 190 having regained some muscle.
A very slow loss rate seems to give us about a 10% muscle to 90% fat loss. A fast weight loss will be about 40% muscle loss.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »drewmaczko wrote: »I'm ten pounds from my goal weight, but I'm afraid I'm losing muscle mass along with the fat. Should I continue the fat loss diet before bulking up and adding the muscle weight back on after that?
While health wise it may be good to stop losing for a while and rebuild some of your loss muscle I think either way would work. I did stop at 200 and worked my way back up to 210 and now will drive for 190 having regained some muscle.
A very slow loss rate seems to give us about a 10% muscle to 90% fat loss. A fast weight loss will be about 40% muscle loss.
Gale, what program did you do to rebuild muscle?0 -
I had a similar problem. Here's what worked for me. Ditch the "bro splits." Push day, pull day, etc. Better to go full body with really heavy weight M, W, F. Use solely heavy compound movements. (Squats, deadlifts, bench press, bent over rows, etc.) Isolation exercises will not help much and waste precious energy. And do lower volume for each body part, but hitting it more frequently and with heavy weight (using the compound exercises). Also, given the caloric deficit this is more efficient, as far as energy expenditure. Alternatively if you want to lift 4 days a week, do upper body one day then lower body next then repeat. I find this kind of schedule more efficient to keep or build muscle because each body part gets hit 2 to 3 times a week which is better for protein synthesis. You aren't on steroids, so hitting each muscle group hard once a week won't be as effective as going heavy with low volume more frequently. Also, try training in a fasted state if you are not already. I was stuck around 15-16% body fat and now I'm getting leaner without losing muscle (actually still making modest gains even with low calories. I am 46.0
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I had a similar problem. Here's what worked for me. Ditch the "bro splits." Push day, pull day, etc. Better to go full body with really heavy weight M, W, F. Use solely heavy compound movements. (Squats, deadlifts, bench press, bent over rows, etc.) Isolation exercises will not help much and waste precious energy. And do lower volume for each body part, but hitting it more frequently and with heavy weight (using the compound exercises). Also, given the caloric deficit this is more efficient, as far as energy expenditure. Alternatively if you want to lift 4 days a week, do upper body one day then lower body next then repeat. I find this kind of schedule more efficient to keep or build muscle because each body part gets hit 2 to 3 times a week which is better for protein synthesis. You aren't on steroids, so hitting each muscle group hard once a week won't be as effective as going heavy with low volume more frequently. Also, try training in a fasted state if you are not already. I was stuck around 15-16% body fat and now I'm getting leaner without losing muscle (actually still making modest gains even with low calories. I am 46.
Hey, thanks for the advice. I'll be adjusting my weekly ro and will include your suggestions.0 -
While I agree that you should definitely focus on compound movements (and that will go for damn near every routine), but the OP has been lifting for several years. I would think at this point in the game it is time to get off the standard 5x5 and incorporate the moves into an intermediate or advanced plan. I can't imagine him only wanting to do a beginner 5x5 at this point.
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