Climate change: Are you concerned and are you making attempts to help?
The consensus is that climate change will affect sea level within the next century. There's a UN summit on Kyoto protocol at the end of the month which lots of scientist's believe may be the "final" shot as reducing carbon emissions overall by countries to help reduce current ice melt.
There was a time that I didn't really care much (90's) about it and thought it'd balance itself out. However, I'm now more convinced that it's going to have a much bigger impact than I originally thought. I feel for the people in the future who will have to deal with this.
I try to do my bit: drive less, be aware of "spare the air" days, turn off any lights or electronics not in use, reduce my temperature in the winter (68 degrees) and increase in the summer (75 degrees) on my heater/AC, etc.
Is it something you're concerned about?
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There was a time that I didn't really care much (90's) about it and thought it'd balance itself out. However, I'm now more convinced that it's going to have a much bigger impact than I originally thought. I feel for the people in the future who will have to deal with this.
I try to do my bit: drive less, be aware of "spare the air" days, turn off any lights or electronics not in use, reduce my temperature in the winter (68 degrees) and increase in the summer (75 degrees) on my heater/AC, etc.
Is it something you're concerned about?
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I think it (the possible effects) gets overhyped for political gain, but yes, when I can I do what I can.
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No doubt. The oil companies have long opined that it's not that much of concern because they're making bank and have a lot of politicians in their pockets.I think it gets overhyped for political gain, but yes, when I can I do what I can.
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No doubt. The oil companies have long opined that it's not that much of concern because they're making bank and have a lot of politicians in their pockets.I think it gets overhyped for political gain, but yes, when I can I do what I can.
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they also have most of the capital to invest in alternative energy sources...so either way their pockets get lined.
I think the average person underestimates how dependent we are on fossil fuels for civilized life that we've been accustomed to.0 -
Funny how if I had to build my own house with unlimited funds, I go as GREEN as I could possible as well as building a green house for vegetables. That's what happens when you watch the Walking Dead.
No doubt. The oil companies have long opined that it's not that much of concern because they're making bank and have a lot of politicians in their pockets.I think it gets overhyped for political gain, but yes, when I can I do what I can.
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they also have most of the capital to invest in alternative energy sources...so either way their pockets get lined.
I think the average person underestimates how dependent we are on fossil fuels for civilized life that we've been accustomed to.
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I am far more concerned by actual pollutants that harm people. I do what I can to reduce my contribution to them, and a side effect is that reduces carbon output as well. By nature I am not an optimist, but I find the doom and gloom that this will destroy the world are not very realistic. More likely is that power centres will shift away from where they are now to other places where increased rain will bring increased productivity that has not been there since the world was much warmer than it was currently.0
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There's also this which I happened upon not too long ago when I became more interested in climate change:
http://www.sej.org/headlines/exxon-road-not-taken
1977 it was introduced to Exxon execs. Wow.
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There's also this which I happened upon not too long ago when I became more interested in climate change:
http://www.sej.org/headlines/exxon-road-not-taken
1977 it was introduced to Exxon execs. Wow.
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methane from cow farts (or otherwise related to cows) is also an important contributor to increases in greenhouse gas...0 -
Don't disagree. Burning trash and exercise does too. But overall, carbon emissions from industry and autos are the main issue and we do have the technology to reduce it (nuclear plants and electric cars). kinda funny how many environmentalists snub nuclear plants (though it can be catastrophic if there was a meltdown) when they would definitely help in reducing electricity production.There's also this which I happened upon not too long ago when I became more interested in climate change:
http://www.sej.org/headlines/exxon-road-not-taken
1977 it was introduced to Exxon execs. Wow.
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methane from cow farts (or otherwise related to cows) is also an important contributor to increases in greenhouse gas...
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We can always be mindful of our foot print, but then...China.0
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Yep. I scoffed at people "buying" carbon credits and China was notorious for this.We can always be mindful of our foot print, but then...China.
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I did and still do think about the environmental affects of my actions and try to make responsible choices. I've driven a hybrid for years, I buy local, I use Energy Star appliances, I compost, I recycle, I carry a reusable water bottle, all my bulbs were CFLs until LEDs were available and now we switch over, and I'm probably going to put in some solar power in the next year or two.
However...
I have gotten really sick of watching other people be insanely wasteful without appearing to even _think_ about it... single people driving massive pollution-speewing, gas-guzzling vehicles, using disposable everything (K-cups, utensils, Swiffers, etc) that at this point, I'm pissed off.
Screw all y'all and your children and grandchildren -- I'm going to fly to all the places I've ever wanted to visit before they disappear.0 -
The great thing about climate change is that your opinion on it doesn't matter at all. There is an overwhelming scientific consensus that it is happening, and the debate ended long ago in the scientific community. Anyone who doesn't make an effort to improve our situation is either dumb, ignorant, willfully damaging the environment, or some combination of the 3.0
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Because maybe one day if we don't address it, running on beaches, sporting outside, doing other physical activities could sorely be affected by climate? Just sayin'How did this wind up on a fitness forum
It's just more that about havin' abs.
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I take Beano. Less methane gas.0
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The sad thing is, unless the entire world is on board, we're screwed anyway. Well at least we are screwed sooner.
We do what we can. Minimize driving, high efficiency appliances, and I pay extra monthly to get some of our electricity from green sources.0 -
That's the thing about humanity. As smart as we are, we're still dumb when it comes commons sense sometimes.robertw486 wrote: »The sad thing is, unless the entire world is on board, we're screwed anyway. Well at least we are screwed sooner.
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I'm a lunatic when it comes to recycling, I plant trees whenever I can, and If it's less than 5 mi and warm enough outside, I walk!
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just one of the many reasons im vegan0
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I believe that climate change is real but from what I learned, the major changes won't be in our lifetime. It's our children's children that likely will suffer because of it.
I want a hybrid car but they are just too expensive for me. And I typically don't drive very often so at least that helps. I keep lights off if not in the room. Unplug electronics when they are not in use. Wish I could do more but not sure what else I can do!0 -
So basically you don't believe that carbon emissions from fossil fuels being burned by humanity AREN'T contributing to climate change?leut_underpants wrote: »I'm completely not on board with climate change alarmists. There is NOT the consensus you have claimed. And even if there were, consensus doesn't mean much when the numbers in support of the models are fudged and fabricated. I vehemently disagree with their current chosen path of argument, that the climate is being destroyed by man. We should be conserving because it's the right thing to do, not because of flawed science.
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leut_underpants wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »The great thing about climate change is that your opinion on it doesn't matter at all. There is an overwhelming scientific consensus that it is happening, and the debate ended long ago in the scientific community. Anyone who doesn't make an effort to improve our situation is either dumb, ignorant, willfully damaging the environment, or some combination of the 3.
You really should allow for more room in your view of others and the interpretation of their beliefs. It's remarkably judgmental and one sided.
That's because the science on the issue is one-sided. I don't care about people who haven't taken the time to do their reading. When 97% of experts in a given area agree, I'm inclined to listen to what they have to say.
http://climate.nasa.gov/0 -
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I agree that extremism from either side ends up more than being a political debate than a moral one. I do disagree about the models though. There's no denying that ice is melting at an accelerated rate and while I do believe in natural warming and cooling trends, compared with models from previous temperature increase (based on ice core measurements) there's a definitive increase at higher levels since the industrial revolution.leut_underpants wrote: »
So basically you don't believe that carbon emissions from fossil fuels being burned by humanity AREN'T contributing to climate change?leut_underpants wrote: »I'm completely not on board with climate change alarmists. There is NOT the consensus you have claimed. And even if there were, consensus doesn't mean much when the numbers in support of the models are fudged and fabricated. I vehemently disagree with their current chosen path of argument, that the climate is being destroyed by man. We should be conserving because it's the right thing to do, not because of flawed science.
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I believe expressing things in a double negative makes them infinitely less clear.
I believe there is currently no model in climate change science that can account for observed data and still forecast the doom and gloom future with any degree of believability. The observed data and the popular forecast are at odds with one another. The models being used to predict the (awful) future can't even get the present and near future observed data correct. As such, I remain skeptical.
One of the chief issues is that higher carbon levels should lead to warming. That's a must under warming models. And while our carbon levels are indeed increasing, we've had a fairly lengthy cooling period. That means that every model that depends on carbon = warming has to be viewed very skeptically.
However, none of the above effects my further belief that conservation is a moral imperative. We should because it's right, not because a flawed climate model cries wolf. You've known this since you were a kid...if you were a scout, for example, you leave land better than you found it. There is a lot of room for agreement in what needs to be done (and in what can have practical effect) without bowing to either side's extremists.
Personally I believe it's great to be skeptical because that should incline one to research information. However a lot of skepticism on climate change is from companies and those that support them that would LOSE money if there was change. It should be that it's done right for good reasons and not political ones. I have no fight for either side of politics, I'm more concerned about actual information being denied.
NOAA is showing strong evidence of rising sea level and while that's happened before, the increased rate is much faster than models from previous rises. As there are other models showing the differences in temperature increase over thousands and thousands of years and then what's happened since 1900.
My parents went back to an island where I graduated from high school in the Pacific in '82 in 2009. The beach where we used to hang out and dance, the Intercontinental Hotel (I was a Polynesian performer in high school), had to move the entertainment huts 30 feet inward because the surf was coming into it (they had pictures of the relocation). Coincidental? Possibly.
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Don't disagree here. I'd like to think that people really do care about what may happen with their ancestry down line, but at the current rate they may not.GuitarJerry wrote: »I think it is short-sided to think that recycling your trash is helpful. Seriously. That's like saying you're sorry after cheating on your SO. It doesn't fix anything. The solution is to stop creating trash at the source. And start radically changing our behavior.
People think America is the best country in the world. But, it's basis is on consumption. It's about profit. If the primary concern was something else, we might have a chance. But, it's far fetched to think that the multi-billion dollar world-wide corporations give a rip about any of this.
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leut_underpants wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »leut_underpants wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »The great thing about climate change is that your opinion on it doesn't matter at all. There is an overwhelming scientific consensus that it is happening, and the debate ended long ago in the scientific community. Anyone who doesn't make an effort to improve our situation is either dumb, ignorant, willfully damaging the environment, or some combination of the 3.
You really should allow for more room in your view of others and the interpretation of their beliefs. It's remarkably judgmental and one sided.
That's because the science on the issue is one-sided. I don't care about people who haven't taken the time to do their reading. When 97% of experts in a given area agree, I'm inclined to listen to what they have to say.
http://climate.nasa.gov/
Have you walked back the data yourself, from even one climate paper? More than reading, to use your own words. That's the fun thing about science, it can be repeated.
If you haven't invested yourself to that level, you're kidding yourself about your level of education. It's no different than getting your opinion from whatever news source you prefer. And when that's the case, you have zero credibility to attack others. You're welcome to do it anyway, but somebody has to be better than that. Might as well be you. :flowerforyou:
97% of experts do not agree. That's purely a talking point, and its bunk. Do better.
So I'm guessing you put on a lab coat and do scientific research yourself then? You're claiming I have zero credibility but simultaneously doing nothing to establish your own. What puts you in a position to speak any more factually on the subject than you claim I cannot? Unless you're a climatologist, you are a lay person on this subject just as much as I am.
What we, as lay people, must do, is as much reading as we possibly can in order to be as informed as possible. Luckily enough, there exist many thousands of publicly available research papers on climate change which you can read anytime you like. I recommend using Google Scholar:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=climate+change&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,3&as_vis=1
Aaaand guess what? The vast, vast majority of research on the subject ends in consensus. But like I said, the good thing is that your opinion (and mine) doesn't matter in the slightest. The scientific community overwhelmingly agrees that climate change is happening, and the overwhelming majority of that overwhelming majority agree that humans are a large contributing factor.
You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.
EDIT: For further reading on the subject, I once again will recommend NASA's site dedicated to climate change:
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
They cite their sources at the bottom of every page. If you want to dispute it, please feel free to do the science necessary to disprove the mountains of evidence they have provided for you.0 -
leut_underpants wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »leut_underpants wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »leut_underpants wrote: »OneHundredToLose wrote: »The great thing about climate change is that your opinion on it doesn't matter at all. There is an overwhelming scientific consensus that it is happening, and the debate ended long ago in the scientific community. Anyone who doesn't make an effort to improve our situation is either dumb, ignorant, willfully damaging the environment, or some combination of the 3.
You really should allow for more room in your view of others and the interpretation of their beliefs. It's remarkably judgmental and one sided.
That's because the science on the issue is one-sided. I don't care about people who haven't taken the time to do their reading. When 97% of experts in a given area agree, I'm inclined to listen to what they have to say.
http://climate.nasa.gov/
Have you walked back the data yourself, from even one climate paper? More than reading, to use your own words. That's the fun thing about science, it can be repeated.
If you haven't invested yourself to that level, you're kidding yourself about your level of education. It's no different than getting your opinion from whatever news source you prefer. And when that's the case, you have zero credibility to attack others. You're welcome to do it anyway, but somebody has to be better than that. Might as well be you. :flowerforyou:
97% of experts do not agree. That's purely a talking point, and its bunk. Do better.
So I'm guessing you put on a lab coat and do scientific research yourself then? You're claiming I have zero credibility but simultaneously doing nothing to establish your own. What puts you in a position to speak any more factually on the subject than you claim I cannot? Unless you're a climatologist, you are a lay person on this subject just as much as I am.
What we, as lay people, must do, is as much reading as we possibly can in order to be as informed as possible. Luckily enough, there exist many thousands of publicly available research papers on climate change which you can read anytime you like. I recommend using Google Scholar:
https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=climate+change&btnG=&hl=en&as_sdt=0,3&as_vis=1
Aaaand guess what? The vast, vast majority of research on the subject ends in consensus. But like I said, the good thing is that your opinion (and mine) doesn't matter in the slightest. The scientific community overwhelmingly agrees that climate change is happening, and the overwhelming majority of that overwhelming majority agree that humans are a large contributing factor.
You can have your own opinions, but you can't have your own facts.
EDIT: For further reading on the subject, I once again will recommend NASA's site dedicated to climate change:
http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/
They cite their sources at the bottom of every page. If you want to dispute it, please feel free to do the science necessary to disprove the mountains of evidence they have provided for you.
And I'll choose to forego further debate, as I've already expressed my opinion and you're unlikely to do anything but pull further talking points from the script.
You're welcome to explain to me how NASA's assembled and sourced evidence is "part of the script". Are you accusing them of lying, or drawing the wrong conclusions from the data set? You're welcome to attempt to prove those things as well. That would certainly be interesting to see.
I will actually read the link you've submitted - I am always happy to admit when I'm wrong. Assuming that link contains some groundbreaking research that for some reason the scientific community hasn't already been made aware of, I'll be glad to come back here and admit defeat. I'll also recommend you for a Nobel prize, since the person to disprove the mountain of evidence in favor of man-made climate change will surely be up for one. Something makes me think that won't be necessary though.0
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