Athletes are born not made?

Running_hopeful · November 2015

So my friend and I were discussing the very topic. She thinks that someone that is not athletically gifted(say a 8-9 min mile) can't get a 5 minute mile despite having extra training and will only improve by a few minutes as some people just don't have the right genes and body composition.

I think that with the right training( consistent one on one coaching lessons with regular trips to the gym as well as group training) they can get somewhere close. However, I am no professional and the articles on the internet are more like motivational posts and not facts so I didn't go out spouting my opinions to her.

So what do you think? Do you think that a below average person (in term of athletics of course) with the right training can become somewhere near good with the right/rigorous training?

ninerbuff · November 2015

Even with rigorous training and discipline, the most dedicated person may never rival someone who just has great genetics. You really can't teach speed. If someone runs a 4.3 40 yard dash, and someone who has the same build, weight and height runs a 5.0 40 yard dash, I doubt even with the best training in the world, they'd improve to 4.3.
Same thing with someone who can dunk at a short height. Spud Webb at 5'8" could dunk a basketball. I don't know of hardly anyone at that height that can do that, pro or amateur.
So there is some truth that athletes are born (genetically gifted) and not made.

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AnvilHead · November 2015

I think any average person with no disabilities can get "somewhere near good" (or even "pretty darn good") at many things with a lot of effort and dedication, but not anyone/everyone can reach elite/superstar status. As Ninerbuff says, great genetics play a significant part in that.

LKArgh · November 2015

There is talent and there is practice. In the end, to be really "perfect" you will need both.
I doubt you can just take the average person who does not have genetics on their side and end up with the new Usain Bolt or Lionel Mesi just by training hard enough. You can improve at whatever you decide to do, but how good you might become, it is also up to nature. Same as you cannot create a new Mozart by taking someone who is not talented and just practising - you might actually make a decent piano player out of the child, but not someone people will be talking about for centuries.

aliciamariaq · November 2015

If you are talking "Elite" athletes or "world class" athletes then I agree genetics, training and drive are the main determinants for their performance.

However, I still consider myself an athlete and I don't even run an 8minute mile. I think anyone out there working hard, practicing regularly and pushing themselves is an athlete. Just because they are not breaking records doesn't mean they are not athletes or even athletic.

EvgeniZyntx · November 2015

Athletes are made. Genetics and attitude determines if they are made good, excellent or exceptional.
There is almost no one that can't be athletic with the necessary attitude and training.

cindytw · November 2015

It depends on what you are using as qualifications as an "athlete". I know several people who started distance running late in life and can now do 50K, 50 Miles, 100 miles...but I m not sure to beat world records that one can be taught that.

msf74 · November 2015

If you want to read a good book on this subject read the "The Sports Gene" by David Epstein. I am actually reading it at the moment and am most of the way through it.

It pretty much echoes the sentiments already echoed in this thread.

One thing I hadn't considered is some people are complete non responders to types of training and despite high levels of effort don't see any improvement (or go backwards from a small initial improvement). It is tempting to write people off as "making it up" when they say they are working hard yet not getting anywhere.

I think the advice of "try lots of things and stick with the one you enjoy" can help people from beating their head against a brick wall.

patrikc333 · November 2015

80% of you is your DNA, 20% is from what you learn from the environment

so, training is important, but you must have the right genes

KANGOOJUMPS · November 2015

SURE!

riffraff2112 · November 2015

Training and genetics together make the winning combination if you want to win olympic medals or make a living doing something athletic. Just look at all the competitors in a world class event, they generally have the same build, shape and frame. Can only do so much with training.
There are exceptions, where heavily coached and trained, dedication and smarts can overcompensate for some athletic shortcomings, but without the right combination of explosive speed, fast twitch muscles, reaction time, endurance, lung capacity, you can only get so far. Even a sport like golf is becoming dominated by tall, strong, ripped athletes....where there always used to be room for overweight, short, ordinary looking guys.

Most people just want to get 'better' and unless winning trophies at the world scene is your ultimate goal, you can do a hell of a lot within your own circle of friends, competitors with proper training alone.

Similar to musical ability...I practice guitar for hours a week, have for 30 years. I am pretty decent but certainly not going to get a record deal or anything. I just don't have it in me. Some students I teach, pass me in ability in a year or two...its cruel but thats life. My talent is for teaching I guess

yusaku02 · November 2015

ninerbuff wrote: »

Even with rigorous training and discipline, the most dedicated person may never rival someone who just has great genetics. You really can't teach speed. If someone runs a 4.3 40 yard dash, and someone who has the same build, weight and height runs a 5.0 40 yard dash, I doubt even with the best training in the world, they'd improve to 4.3.
Same thing with someone who can dunk at a short height. Spud Webb at 5'8" could dunk a basketball. I don't know of hardly anyone at that height that can do that, pro or amateur.
So there is some truth that athletes are born (genetically gifted) and not made.

I agree wholeheartedly.
I ran the mile for track in high school and did manage to get my time down to 4:55 but most people would say that I'm fairly gifted athletically. However there's no chance that I would have been able to compete with the guys who were winning the meets with times around 4:12 to 4:16. I was good, they were exceptional.
I ran an 800m race against one of those guys at a meet and he smoked everyone with a time of 1:53 which happened to tie the women's world record. I'm sure I trotted in with a time around 2:10 or so during that race.

Running_hopeful wrote:

So my friend and I were discussing the very topic. She thinks that someone that is not athletically gifted(say a 8-9 min mile) can't get a 5 minute mile despite having extra training and will only improve by a few minutes as some people just don't have the right genes and body composition.

Depends. Is this person running 8-9 minute miles in shape and that's the best they can do or is that someone's time when they're out of shape with some extra weight to them. If they're already in shape then there's little hope of getting down to 5 or 6 minutes.

Running_hopeful · November 2015

Thanks everyone for the very informative responses! I've never been very knowledgeable about the science of how athletes are and your replies have brought me out of the dark.

yusaku02 wrote:

Depends. Is this person running 8-9 minute miles in shape and that's the best they can do or is that someone's time when they're out of shape with some extra weight to them. If they're already in shape then there's little hope of getting down to 5 or 6 minutes.

Hmm, I haven't actually considered that before. But I'm guessing the example is the latter because of course, if someone's best while they're in shape is a certain time, I doubt they could whittle it down to 5 or 6 minutes. But I'm guessing that if someone should be 'out' of shape and be a little overweight they might be able to?

And from your reply I'm guessing if someone should be in the lower spectrum of their healthy BMI or even middle, they would become faster as opposed to someone on the higher end?

Working2BLean · November 2015

Most people can go from couch potato to decent athlete in time with targeted training

To be a pro or prodigy is a rarity

I went from couch potato to doing Olympic triathlons. I'm not gifted. I'm stubborn and a knucklehead that just won't quit. I will never set any records or anything like that. But supposedly just being able to do that makes me an elite athlete as far as fitness goes.

I think most anyone can become an elite athlete in time. The idea we are something fantastic is a bit delusional except for a very rare few. I have no delusions of being that rare gifted athlete.

Be the best you and be happy with that. Most people never even get close to fulfilling their own potential.

Yes. You can go from a 300+ pound couch potato to an eliete athlete.

Don't expect it to happen without years of work and goal targeted training.

MostlyWater · November 2015

Athletes may be born but champions are made.

And everyone needs to exercise, regardless. that's the way the body was designed. Doesn't matter your fitness level.

Unknown · November 2015

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ovidnine · November 2015

Pro level athletes usually fall into two categories: Those in the top .5-1% of ability and those in the top 5-10% of ability who through sheer hard work, mental toughness and luck (avoiding injury, getting hooked up with a good coach who maximizes their ability).

Even those who are in that top percentile can lose out due to injury, etc.

Most of us rarely get anywhere close to our true potential which in my case would certainly be a whole lot more than I can do now.

cwolfman13 · November 2015

my coach is a retired professional athlete...he is a natural, genetically gifted athlete...no matter my training with him, I could never reach is level of athletic ability even though i've been involved in athletics and sports most of my life and am a decent athlete in my own right.

genetically, there are going to be varying degrees of natural athletic ability regardless of training. that doesn't mean you can't be healthy and fit and/or be decent enough at some athletic skill....but genetics are going to have a very profound impact on your athletic prowess.

personally, i just strive to be the best me that i can be.

quiltlovinlisa · November 2015

I have two brothers that wrestled in high school, one, made varsity as a freshman (unheard of with our school's competitive program) and the other finally made varsity his senior year after working his rear off the previous 3 years.

Neither one became a professional athlete because my athletically gifted brother only did enough school work to stay in wrestling and missed out on scholarships with competitive wrestling programs, plus had no idea how to succeed in school, and of course my other brother just didn't have the talent, in spite of his hard work.

So I agree absolutely, it has to be the combination of talent and work to make someone great, in whatever sport they're pursuing.

ninerbuff · November 2015

EvgeniZyntx wrote: »

Athletes are made. Genetics and attitude determines if they are made good, excellent or exceptional.
There is almost no one that can't be athletic with the necessary attitude and training.

I'll somewhat disagree. There are lots of professional athletes who are "excellent" at their sport and have very lackluster training regimens. I've found many that are lazy when it comes to conditioning and weight training (I ran into it alot while working in the athletic department at GMU) and just wanted to play in the game and usually did quite well.
Could they have been much better? Absolutely, however there were 3rd, 4th stringers who busted their *kitten* to take a higher position but couldn't because they just lacked a lot of the natural abilities the athletes above them possessed.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with hard work, dedication and attitude. "Rudy" Ruettiger proved that. He just wasn't football material.

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AnvilHead · November 2015

Running_hopeful wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the very informative responses! I've never been very knowledgeable about the science of how athletes are and your replies have brought me out of the dark.

yusaku02 wrote:

Depends. Is this person running 8-9 minute miles in shape and that's the best they can do or is that someone's time when they're out of shape with some extra weight to them. If they're already in shape then there's little hope of getting down to 5 or 6 minutes.

Hmm, I haven't actually considered that before. But I'm guessing the example is the latter because of course, if someone's best while they're in shape is a certain time, I doubt they could whittle it down to 5 or 6 minutes. But I'm guessing that if someone should be 'out' of shape and be a little overweight they might be able to?

And from your reply I'm guessing if someone should be in the lower spectrum of their healthy BMI or even middle, they would become faster as opposed to someone on the higher end?

Barring ridiculous extremes, I don't think BMI is a useful statistic for much of anything when it comes to athletic performance. It doesn't take body composition (BF%) into consideration, nor does it consider age, attitude/determination, training status or performance parameters like VO2max, strength, vertical leap, etc. BMI is nothing more than a marginally useful statistic for comparing weights across general populations.

In the example you gave above, BMI would take a back seat to a lot of other factors. Let's take two people of equal height and age - say 5'9", 30 years old:

Subject #1 is a couch potato who weighs 129 pounds, has 30% bodyfat and a BMI of exactly 19 (on the low end of the "healthy" category). His lifelong training regimen has been eating cheetos and playing video games, and his most strenuous exercise is the occasional walk across the parking lot to Starbucks with his laptop (which feels annoyingly heavy to him). His attitude toward exercise is that the heart only has so many beats in it, so why waste them faster by doing exercise?

Subject #2 weighs 170 pounds, has 14% bodyfat and a BMI of 25.1 (just into the "overweight" category). He competed on the cross-country, track and wrestling teams in high school and has kept up a consistent regimen of running and weight training ever since. His attitude toward exercise is that he enjoys being pushed to his limits and finds the exertion exhilarating, and he's always pushing to better his last workout.

I know which one I'd put my money on as having the potential to achieve optimal performance, and BMI wouldn't have anything whatsoever to do with it.

ninerbuff · November 2015

Let me iterate that just about anyone can become athletic in their desired physical activity.
I considered myself well versed, decently skilled and physically fit and able to play flag football. Same with weight lifting. But I don't believe myself to be an athlete because I can do them.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

blankiefinder · November 2015

From our experiences, genetics makes the difference between being on the podium at a national level, or off. Hard work and training can get you there (nationals), but genetics + hard work gives you the best shot at coming out on top.

rainbowbow · November 2015

I'm not familiar with every single sport, but i know that genetics play a very large role in most sports. I know as an ex-gymnast that the girls with a smaller frame, body size, wrist size, longer torsos, etc. Had a huge advantage over others. Some people have a body which can play basketball easier, etc.

I believe anyone can get in great shape and perform an activity they love, but i think once we start talking about the BEST of the BEST, genetics come into play.

This is even the case in bodybuilding. I believe anyone can reach an amazing physique, but genetics play a HUGE role in aesthetics.

stevencloser · November 2015

I can't talk much about most sports, I don't participate too much in them. I only know a bit of football because as a German I'm required by law to watch the world cup.
Miroslav Klose only got into a good football club in his early 20s, way later than most talented people who get found by scouts at ages around 12-13 or so I've heard. Nevertheless he broke the record for most goals scored at world cups last year. Then there's players who are amazing but then kind of... disappear off the face of the world after a few short years while others stay amazing for a decade or even more.
It's weird.

scolaris · November 2015

I think you can become a solid performer thru practice & dedication, and a stellar coach, but it is absolutely true that elite athletes generally have a certain 'sumpin sumpin' with which they are just born!
I'm a slow runner who married a fast runner, from a family of gifted athletes (FIL was a pro basketball player) and my girls were just born faster than me. Period. They have that high placed navel that correlates with faster running times. They train & they have to work, sure. But they started out in the fastest group without any training. Genetics.

Athletes are born not made?

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