Questions about Bariatric Surgery and Calorie Restriction

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  • CarboUnload
    CarboUnload Posts: 30 Member
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    dayzeyblue wrote: »
    I had a Gastric Sleeve Surgery 3 years ago and am still on MFP daily, love this site.

    When you first get a surgery you can only consume 300-500 cals a day of liquid due to the SURGERY effects and HEALING process, this will not be so in a month or 2 when your incisions and internal organ has healed. The only reason for that low of a calories is so you wont rip your incisions and really because of the surgery itself you wont have much appetite...especially since your on liquids and soft foods only for the first several weeks. Eventually it will be easier to eat more...and eventually lots more...you use this time to get used to a lower calorie LIFESTYLE...ween yourself off of the addictive cravings especially for things like Binge Eating and Sodas etc...I would suggest not eating any "splurge" items even if within your calories for at least 3-6 months after surgery to retrain your taste buds.

    BUT the real answer is YES you could do it on your own if you have the willpower....which I know myself enough to know I did not have the willpower and needed a surgery to just reset my horrible habits of a lifetime...especially binging. My BFF who is scared of surgery and so opted to start using MFP recently and walking daily....Since my heaviest of 240 I have kept off 64 lbs lost due to surgery but am still working daily on losing my last 25lbs even w/ the surgery. (I did break my ankle in 2 places last year and that set back my weight loss by almost a year , having to retrain myself to count and exercise from when I was waited on hand in foot while healing that ankle). My BFF is now down 40lbs and almost caught up to me just by exercise and MFP of 1200 daily. It is a very personal choice....we both believe we have made the choice that is best for each of us....I will note that if I go off my 1200 cal a day for a month and am evil...I feel like it is easier for me to get back on path than her....because even when I overindulge I am still only able to eat a smaller portion than her...she can slip right back into eating huge portions due to her not being sleeved. My splurges are more about being over calories than over portioned, if that makes sense.

    Not sure if this helps...just my personal experience.

    This is extremely helpful, Thank You.
    I am looking for answers/advice from people that are using this tool and have had these experiences prior.
    I appreciate any and all feedback while I research.
  • beemerphile1
    beemerphile1 Posts: 1,710 Member
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    CarboUnload wrote: »
    I understand the risks and wouldn't do it without supervision.

    The question is, what is the difference between having the surgery to restrict calories...and just restricting calories?

    What is the benefit of the surgery if you're able to restrict and supplement without it?

    The difference? Willpower.

    With surgery the capacity of your stomach is reduced. Without surgery you need the willpower and determination to stop eating before your stomach is full.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,009 Member
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    AngryViking1970 wrote: »
    I had RNY is July of 2014, and I most definitely do not eat 300 calories a day; more like 1000. And that's because I'm still losing (6 lbs to go to goal!). I haven't had any complications and haven't come across any types of foods that I'm not able to eat. Because of the restriction and malabsorption, I need to be vigilant about what I eat and I track my macros every day to make sure I'm getting adequate protein and minimal carbs. I also supplement with multiple vitamins daily and have my blood work done every three months to check my levels. It's a trade off and I'd rather do this than live the life I wasn't living at 300+ lbs.

    I know the issue of bariatric surgery can be polarizing, but for me it was right. You need to educate yourself and make the decision that's right for you.

    What I don't understand is what happens once the patient reaches his/her goal weight. The patient still has the band or sleeve or bypass, so wouldn't intake continue to be forcibly restricted below maintenance, so they would continue to lose? After all, 1000 calories a day is below maintenance for the vast majority of adults at a healthy weight. Do the patients have the surgery reversed after hitting goal weight? Or do they switch to more frequent meals with more calorie-dense foods so they can maintain a health weight?
  • ki4eld
    ki4eld Posts: 1,215 Member
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    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    What I don't understand is what happens once the patient reaches his/her goal weight. The patient still has the band or sleeve or bypass, so wouldn't intake continue to be forcibly restricted below maintenance, so they would continue to lose? After all, 1000 calories a day is below maintenance for the vast majority of adults at a healthy weight. Do the patients have the surgery reversed after hitting goal weight? Or do they switch to more frequent meals with more calorie-dense foods so they can maintain a health weight?

    The band can be removed, but the RNY or VSG surgery can't be reversed. It's permanent. More calorie-dense foods are added to increase calories to maintenance. My dietitian began having me do this (calorie cycling) one day every couple of weeks around 9mo out from surgery to learn what foods I could add in what quantities and how would they affect me. After surgery, all foods affect me differently than they did before. It also helps in slowing weight loss when someone is closer to their goal weight, as well as bring those of us that were VVLC back up to a livable calorie allotment while maintaining weight loss.
  • lynn_glenmont
    lynn_glenmont Posts: 10,009 Member
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    ki4eld wrote: »
    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    What I don't understand is what happens once the patient reaches his/her goal weight. The patient still has the band or sleeve or bypass, so wouldn't intake continue to be forcibly restricted below maintenance, so they would continue to lose? After all, 1000 calories a day is below maintenance for the vast majority of adults at a healthy weight. Do the patients have the surgery reversed after hitting goal weight? Or do they switch to more frequent meals with more calorie-dense foods so they can maintain a health weight?

    The band can be removed, but the RNY or VSG surgery can't be reversed. It's permanent. More calorie-dense foods are added to increase calories to maintenance. My dietitian began having me do this (calorie cycling) one day every couple of weeks around 9mo out from surgery to learn what foods I could add in what quantities and how would they affect me. After surgery, all foods affect me differently than they did before. It also helps in slowing weight loss when someone is closer to their goal weight, as well as bring those of us that were VVLC back up to a livable calorie allotment while maintaining weight loss.

    Thanks for explaining.
  • PaulaWallaDingDong
    PaulaWallaDingDong Posts: 4,641 Member
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    VLCD, by surgery or not, isn't the only option. Keep going to the classes and meetings, but as long as you can keep losing by simply limiting your own intake, there's not much point in getting surgery.
  • AngryViking1970
    AngryViking1970 Posts: 2,847 Member
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    lynn_glenmont wrote: »
    AngryViking1970 wrote: »
    I had RNY is July of 2014, and I most definitely do not eat 300 calories a day; more like 1000. And that's because I'm still losing (6 lbs to go to goal!). I haven't had any complications and haven't come across any types of foods that I'm not able to eat. Because of the restriction and malabsorption, I need to be vigilant about what I eat and I track my macros every day to make sure I'm getting adequate protein and minimal carbs. I also supplement with multiple vitamins daily and have my blood work done every three months to check my levels. It's a trade off and I'd rather do this than live the life I wasn't living at 300+ lbs.

    I know the issue of bariatric surgery can be polarizing, but for me it was right. You need to educate yourself and make the decision that's right for you.

    What I don't understand is what happens once the patient reaches his/her goal weight. The patient still has the band or sleeve or bypass, so wouldn't intake continue to be forcibly restricted below maintenance, so they would continue to lose? After all, 1000 calories a day is below maintenance for the vast majority of adults at a healthy weight. Do the patients have the surgery reversed after hitting goal weight? Or do they switch to more frequent meals with more calorie-dense foods so they can maintain a health weight?

    I'm not there yet, but I would think more frequent and/or calorie dense meals would be added so a maintenance intake is reached. Reversals are not typical, and only done if the patient has major complications.
  • peter56765
    peter56765 Posts: 352 Member
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    annacsophia wrote: »
    beemerphile1 wrote: »
    CarboUnload wrote: »
    I understand the risks and wouldn't do it without supervision.

    The question is, what is the difference between having the surgery to restrict calories...and just restricting calories?

    What is the benefit of the surgery if you're able to restrict and supplement without it?

    The difference? Willpower.

    With surgery the capacity of your stomach is reduced. Without surgery you need the willpower and determination to stop eating before your stomach is full.

    You need that after as well. There are plenty of people that eat around their surgery. Weight loss surgery does not mean one is weak or does not have willpower, it is used as a tool.

    Yes, you could eat around your surgery, or drink around it if what I hear is correct. But that would require a conscious effort to do so. The feeling of being overfull is often unpleasant enough to discourage people from eating more. If you are overweight now and tend to stop when you're overfull, there isn't any reason to believe you would change that behavior after surgery.

    At the moment, bariatric surgery is the most effective and sustainable method of weight loss we have. It's not for everyone and it doesn't work for all the people who undergo it, but it's the best thing we have at this time. That's not a popular statement around here but it's what the current science of the day tells us.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3470459/
  • OhMsDiva
    OhMsDiva Posts: 1,073 Member
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    My doctor was gently pushing me to get bariatric surgery. Thankfully, i did not have any medical conditions that made it a life or death situation. I have heard so many horror stories that I was afraid and decided to lose weight without surgery. Of course the process is nowhere as fast as surgery but i am pleased with how I am progressing. I have a ways to go, but my life has been transformed. I can move without hurting. I get up and exercise every day and I eat and I am not starving.
    A friend of mine, who is nowhere as large as I was, or am, is going to have the gastric sleeve done, but she has serious medical issues. I wish her the best. I feel as long as you are truly educated, whatever choice you make is yours to make. Good luck.
  • Abby2205
    Abby2205 Posts: 253 Member
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    I have heard of two differences between surgery+calorie restriction vs. calorie restriction alone:
    -surgery reduces ghrelin level, ghrelin secretion stimulates appetite so the immediate drop in ghrelin could make it easier to comply with the restricted calorie diet
    -surgery can have an positive impact on type 2 diabetes very quickly, i.e. before significant weight loss
  • lpdjones
    lpdjones Posts: 8 Member
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    CarboUnload wrote: »
    The question is, what is the difference between having the surgery to restrict calories...and just restricting calories?

    What is the benefit of the surgery if you're able to restrict and supplement without it?

    Hi, I think everyone who has ever considered WLS has asked this same question before making their decision. I can give you my answer. I had RNY on Dec 14, 2015.

    The medical world is coming to recognize that at some point excess weight turns from a health concern to a disease. A person actually loses the ability to change their weight in the long term through diet and exercise because our bodies are so adaptable. A person's rest metabolism is not a clockwork that just runs at a given rate. It is variable, with some functions shutting down to keep the overall system functioning. And the metabolic process actually changes for some. The point at which this happens for an individual varies based on both heredity and environment... In spite of behavior. This is why a person can have terrific success on a medical diet, be thin for years, put back on a few pounds, then things spiral out of control and bammo! All the weight is back plus some. The real tell is that if that person returns to the medically supervised plan... They don't lose weight, or lose significantly less than they did the first time. In this case their problem has advanced to the disease stage.

    WLS is an opportunity to reset the metabolism with medical supervision, nutritional counseling, support groups, psych counseling, etc. This is a serious big deal, and not to be entered into lightly. Please, if you elect to go the traditional diet and exercise route, do it with medical supervision. If you have any doubts, go the traditional route. These surgeries are a lifelong game changer, but still some people regain. Be certain before you make this change.

    All the best, L.
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
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    annacsophia wrote: »
    peter56765 wrote: »
    annacsophia wrote: »
    beemerphile1 wrote: »
    CarboUnload wrote: »
    I understand the risks and wouldn't do it without supervision.

    The question is, what is the difference between having the surgery to restrict calories...and just restricting calories?

    What is the benefit of the surgery if you're able to restrict and supplement without it?

    The difference? Willpower.

    With surgery the capacity of your stomach is reduced. Without surgery you need the willpower and determination to stop eating before your stomach is full.

    You need that after as well. There are plenty of people that eat around their surgery. Weight loss surgery does not mean one is weak or does not have willpower, it is used as a tool.

    Yes, you could eat around your surgery, or drink around it if what I hear is correct. But that would require a conscious effort to do so. The feeling of being overfull is often unpleasant enough to discourage people from eating more. If you are overweight now and tend to stop when you're overfull, there isn't any reason to believe you would change that behavior after surgery.

    At the moment, bariatric surgery is the most effective and sustainable method of weight loss we have. It's not for everyone and it doesn't work for all the people who undergo it, but it's the best thing we have at this time. That's not a popular statement around here but it's what the current science of the day tells us.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3470459/

    Unfortunately it does not really require a conscious effort, which is why regain is so prevalent. There are many foods that can be eaten to excess with little to no discomfort, called "sliders". For most, these are things like chips, cookies, crackers, bread, pasta, etc. This is why most WLS programs teach patients to eat dense protein first, then veggies, then other things if there is room. In fact, many WLS patients can eat a normal sized meal once there pouch/sleeve has matured.

    But my response earlier was to the post regarding willpower, as if those who have had WLS lack willpower completely. I disagree with that statement.

    I don't think that's usually what's meant when it's said the difference is willpower.

    The fact is that without the surgery, all you have to stop you from overeating is you. With the surgery, at least in the short term you really can't overeat. In the long term you certainly can (and it seems most people do), but there are some obstacles that need to be overcome that could make choosing to comply with the diet more likely. Plus, you've had the benefit of having to comply for some time already - the ever-popular 'kick start', I suppose. So the demands on your willpower are less for a time.

    Personally, I know four people who've had some form of bariatric surgery. All failed in one way or another (one person nearly died) and regained all of their weight if not more. One of the four ended up losing it all again with diet and exercise.

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