5 x 5, 5/3/1

I don't recommend program dedicated to increase raw strength such as SL5x5 or 5/3/1 during cutting phase, as your main target is to increase strength that contradicts with low intake. However, if you want to improve strength and reduce BF% it is better to do 5/3/1 along with 5/2 diet for lifters as it will enhance insulin sensitivity and reduce BF% while not hindering your strength gains.

Generally speaking, 5/3/1 is more better than SL5x5 IMHO. 5/3/1 is not suited for beginners, while SL5x5 is good start for anyone new to strength training.

I've done 5x5 on a cut before. If doing that, I'd recommend dropping it to 3x5. Just started a cut on 5/3/1, so we'll see how that goes.

hanymamdouh wrote: »

I don't recommend program dedicated to increase raw strength such as SL5x5 or 5/3/1 during cutting phase, as your main target is to increase strength that contradicts with low intake. However, if you want to improve strength and reduce BF% it is better to do 5/3/1 along with 5/2 diet for lifters as it will enhance insulin sensitivity and reduce BF% while not hindering your strength gains.

Generally speaking, 5/3/1 is more better than SL5x5 IMHO. 5/3/1 is not suited for beginners, while SL5x5 is good start for anyone new to strength training.

New lifters can easily increase strength while cutting, given a moderate calorie deficit. A 5/2 diet is not necessary. Do it if you want to but it isn't necessary.

I've never done SL but I've mostly done 531 since last April. It is doable on a cut and is appropriate for beginners as well. If you're interested in it, I suggest getting both the first 531 book and Beyond 5/3/1.

I did make strength gains in a calorie deficit with 5x5 when I was a newbie.

I don't recommend it. I was so tired all the time, and the hunger was incredible. After a period of weight loss and strength gains I just couldn't do it anymore. I had a really bad rebound phase where I ate very poorly and started being inconsistent with my workouts.

My experience with 5/3/1 isn't very favorable over 5x5, but honestly it's probably because I started it after a period of inconsistency and should have been sticking with a better beginner program.

My advice to you is to first decide whether your top priority is weight loss or strength gains.

I've always done 5x5 and/or trips while I've been cutting. Have had great success with it. You won't gain strength but it will help you maintain your strength better throughout the cut

Scamd83 wrote: »

@McCloud33 Would 3 x 5 still leave enough volume to be effective?

@hanymamdouh So 5/2 can be effective without tracking on normal days? And could those 800 calories be consumed in one meal at the end of the day instead? I tend to find once I've eaten at the beginning of the day my hunger levels are unbearable not too soon later. And breaking a lengthy fast with anything less than a larger than normal meal kicks off a binge usually. I'm interested in giving it a try though regardless, I've said elsewhere bog standard cutting drives me to boredom and anything which makes it a little bit more interesting and simple is worth a look at.

@jemhh I generally try to avoid purchasing books because I'm a bit cheap and from past experience with books they're usually difficult to comprehend, especially when they go into detail. I'd have purchased the Carb Backloading book for example if it wasn't so costly and hundreds of pages long. I'm very much a person who finds it easier when something gets straight to the point.

@loulamb7 So in your opinion you'd suggest switching from 5/3/1 to 5 x 5? What is allpro?

@holothuroidea For some reason I've got this notion that strength gain is ideal for cutting. Fat loss is my priority, but I don't want to lose strength. I already struggle to press things.

In that case I would not recommend 5/3/1 as I think that most people who don't read at least the first book don't really understand or follow the basic concepts.

Beginners can usually easily increase strength, at first, on a cut. At a certain point that tends to level out and can stop, depending on the program. I'm at the point where my goal is fat loss and I'd be thrilled to maintain my strength but am willing to sacrifice a bit in order to get to my fat loss goal. You kind of have to base it on your own experience and know how much of one (strength) you're willing to sacrifice for the other (fat loss.) Some people have higher tolerances than others.

jemhh wrote: »

hanymamdouh wrote: »

I don't recommend program dedicated to increase raw strength such as SL5x5 or 5/3/1 during cutting phase, as your main target is to increase strength that contradicts with low intake. However, if you want to improve strength and reduce BF% it is better to do 5/3/1 along with 5/2 diet for lifters as it will enhance insulin sensitivity and reduce BF% while not hindering your strength gains.

Generally speaking, 5/3/1 is more better than SL5x5 IMHO. 5/3/1 is not suited for beginners, while SL5x5 is good start for anyone new to strength training.

New lifters can easily increase strength while cutting, given a moderate calorie deficit. A 5/2 diet is not necessary. Do it if you want to but it isn't necessary.

I've never done SL but I've mostly done 531 since last April. It is doable on a cut and is appropriate for beginners as well. If you're interested in it, I suggest getting both the first 531 book and Beyond 5/3/1.

Beginners gain strength as well as muscle mass whatever workout they do, even on random exercises. I'm here comparing to methods for consistent real strength gains. All programs are equivalent if you are still beginner, and you are counted as beginner if you can't squat at least your body weight, deadlift 1.5 your body weight. Once you hit the plateau you cannot progress on caloric deficit and adequate intake is necessary.

To answer your question: Yes, you can run 5/3/1 on a deficit and see gains (more on that below.) However, there are a lot of ways to run 5/3/1 and I think some would be more conducive to beginners/less strong lifters than others.

Lots of people see excellent results on 5/3/1.

About cutting & strength:

IME you can run about any beginner or intermediate program on a deficit without much strength loss if you have a few % of body fat to lose and watch your macros.

I'm currently ~21% bf @ 188 running an average ~400-500 kcal/day deficit doing a program where I lift every day for high intensity and building strength. (This is a short term program, about 8 weeks. Obviously that situation could not continue forever. Merely an illustration that cutting doesn't have to equal strength loss or even stalling for beginners and intermediates.)

If you're attempting to cut weight quickly, say 1.5-2lbs a week then yeah, it gets tougher to maintain/gain strength. I prefer the slow/steady route to weight loss, but others prefer the lose it fast and rebuild. There isn't a right or wrong way IMO merely whichever way works best for you. Try both and see which you like.

As for lifting books/guides/etc you say you're cheap (I am too) so I'm going to give you a totally different suggestion from either of those programs.

If you like what you read there you can get the whole thing emailed to you with handy spreadsheets and more information, totally free and Greg doesn't spam you. I'm not affiliated with them but I really like the program and its been working for me (currently on brief break from it).

If nothing else, I think its a great read as it has a lot of really useful info all in one place.

Scamd83 wrote: »

@holothuroidea For some reason I've got this notion that strength gain is ideal for cutting. Fat loss is my priority, but I don't want to lose strength. I already struggle to press things.

Strength gains are possible when cutting, but it's not the ideal situation based on my research and experience.

Everyone is different. Just know that for some people it is difficult to do both at once. You might not be one of them, but just be mentally prepared to choose if you have to.

As long as you do some kind of strength program consistently (2-3x/wk) as you lose weight you don't need to worry about losing the gains you've already made.