Ontario Officials Rule Veganism is a Human Right Legally Protected from Discrimination
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would there be an ethical dilemma if a hospital were treating someone with a nutrient deficiency?0
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I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!0
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summerkissed wrote: »I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!
Let me see if I understand you. So... say I get hit by a car and put in hospital, or my luck, ICU, I'm single, and have no immediate family... am I supposed to supply my own food then? Just get up and run out to the local grocer?0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!
Let me see if I understand you. So... say I get hit by a car and put in hospital, or my luck, ICU, I'm single, and have no immediate family... am I supposed to supply my own food then? Just get up and run out to the local grocer?
So I need to also have a list of things I don't eat and expect them to also feed me as I want? Or do I just accept that they are saving my life and not whine about it??
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BecomingBane wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!
Let me see if I understand you. So... say I get hit by a car and put in hospital, or my luck, ICU, I'm single, and have no immediate family... am I supposed to supply my own food then? Just get up and run out to the local grocer?
If it doesn't affect your health a hospital should not be "forced" to provide it.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »All of my kosher jewish friends are provided that respect out of courtesy and all they have to do is ask... and all but one of them do it nicely... the other is just an asshat, lol. I respect all of my friends beliefs and dietary needs provided they inform me, and don't mind doing it... most restaurants are the same and are happy to oblige. I can't imagine why anyone would get bent out of shape about it.
If they are truly kosher, I doubt any of them are provided with a meal consistent with their dietary restrictions - by you or by any non-specialized restaurant.
Keeping kosher is more than just not serving a meal with meat and milk. The plates on which the meal is served have to be entirely separate (and if they were ever used in a way that wasn't kosher they must be ritually cleansed). You need essentially two entirely separate sets of cooking and eating ware. (I'm not Jewish, so I apologize if my terminology is off - but I dated someone in college during the period in which his parents converted to a kosher kitchen - so I know that is is not something you can do in a restaurant setting or for friends on a whim.)
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People need to get over themselves a little!! As a race we are becoming way way to "politically correct" we can't do this we can't do that! you have to do this you have to do that! Your way is wrong my way is right! My way is right your way is wrong! Sue for this sue for that! We won't be able to wipe out bums without a choice of toilet paper because some are greenies and choose only a certain type of toilet paper......OMG it's all going to far!!!0
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I understand and respect the ethical side of being a vegan. It's not only a diet so I think it's a good move. I have no issue.0
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I work in a school canteen we are under so much pressure from so many religious, ethical and food allergy/intolerances groups of people......it really is beyond a joke! It sounds easy from an individual's point of view but from a school canteen or hospital there is so many rules and choices we have to provide to try and keep everyone happy.....it's really is getting very very hard!! Even down to a simple fruit salad that you might think hey that's going to please everyone....no we can't use kiwi fruit, melons, bananas, grapes, or lemon to stop discoloration just to name a few because those with allergies have the 'right' to be able to eat it as well....it really is hard!0
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BecomingBane wrote: »All of my kosher jewish friends are provided that respect out of courtesy and all they have to do is ask... and all but one of them do it nicely... the other is just an asshat, lol. I respect all of my friends beliefs and dietary needs provided they inform me, and don't mind doing it... most restaurants are the same and are happy to oblige. I can't imagine why anyone would get bent out of shape about it.
If they are truly kosher, I doubt any of them are provided with a meal consistent with their dietary restrictions - by you or by any non-specialized restaurant.
Keeping kosher is more than just not serving a meal with meat and milk. The plates on which the meal is served have to be entirely separate (and if they were ever used in a way that wasn't kosher they must be ritually cleansed). You need essentially two entirely separate sets of cooking and eating ware. (I'm not Jewish, so I apologize if my terminology is off - but I dated someone in college during the period in which his parents converted to a kosher kitchen - so I know that is is not something you can do in a restaurant setting or for friends on a whim.)
Not that difficult for a hospital. They get them pre packaged.0 -
It's always the loudest voices that get heard. Well as someone who has religious dietary "restrictions" and non religious preferences, I have to say I have never had a problem (or complaint about) eating anywhere. In school, in a hospital, in an American Mc Donalds where skipping the meat in an egg mc muffin is wasting money. I agree that you can't satisfy everyone, but it's nice when there are options. Personally I'd love to have the option of sending my kid to school with a pb&j sandwich, but because a few kids are allergic, all schools in my city at least are nut free. At least Ontario is giving another (food lifestyle an) option and not taking away one.
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I'd really have no issue with it. In the area I live in school lunches are lacking in general, so finding something decent on any diet is a hassle. But that should be changed everywhere, as long as people are willing to absorb the costs involved. It might be a little trickier to satisfy a well balanced vegan diet, but it's not like eating more vegan friendly stuff is going to make the "conventional" diets any worse.
As for the animal dissection and such, they should just have alternatives so as not to just exempt the true vegan population from that period of learning. Really with all the medical models these days, I never quite understood how dissection is valuable to most people regardless.0 -
I'm wary of "rights creep." There's a tendency in modern society to call anything that is good for people a "right."
But politics aside, I do see some sense in making these kinds of accommodations. When my (vegetarian) mother had to go to a nursing home, the staff just could not manage to come up with appropriate vegetarian meals. All they would do was remove the meat from the meal, leaving her with a plate of veggies and starch. She got almost no protein. My brother and I could not get them to understand that this was not an appropriate way to feed her. It was really frustrating.0 -
SoDamnHungry wrote: »I wish I could have pulled the vegan card during pig dissection. Good for the people who will benefit from it.
I found a lego frog dissection kit, which is awesome!!!
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It uses the word, but is it defined in there? Inclusively or exclusively or is that left to the courts?0 -
Derp_Diggler wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!
Let me see if I understand you. So... say I get hit by a car and put in hospital, or my luck, ICU, I'm single, and have no immediate family... am I supposed to supply my own food then? Just get up and run out to the local grocer?
If it doesn't affect your health a hospital should not be "forced" to provide it.
Is this also your position on kosher and halal meals in hospitals? You think people who need medical care should choose between that and keeping kosher/halal?0 -
would there be an ethical dilemma if a hospital were treating someone with a nutrient deficiency?
Can you explain your question? I think you might be asking what would happen if a hospital was treating someone that had a nutrient deficiency related to their veganism, but I'm not sure. If this is what you are asking, know that it's possible to treat nutrient deficiencies without animal products, so there wouldn't be an ethical issue in feeding someone vegan meals while also addressing their health needs in other ways.0 -
I'm not vegan or vegetarian, but I was hit by a car last year. It was a very stressful time and, because of the hospital's visiting hours, I was alone for most of the morning for two weeks. A little after breakfast, me and the other patients in the room were visited by the nutrition staff and asked what we wanted to eat for the rest of the day and the next morning.Derp_Diggler wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!
Let me see if I understand you. So... say I get hit by a car and put in hospital, or my luck, ICU, I'm single, and have no immediate family... am I supposed to supply my own food then? Just get up and run out to the local grocer?
If it doesn't affect your health a hospital should not be "forced" to provide it.
Just being able to make the choice gave me something to look forward to every morning and gave me more reason to stay positive.
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Socialism is absurd, with its inherit need to legislate EVERYTHING0
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SoDamnHungry wrote: »I wish I could have pulled the vegan card during pig dissection. Good for the people who will benefit from it.
When I was in high school (20 yrs ago) I was allowed to opt out of the dissection as long as I observed. My lab partner was the one who pithed the frog, cut, etc.
My teacher even let me bring one of the live frogs home with me afterwards. (not a vegan by the way, just felt strongly against dissection.). I am happy to hear this will be more acceptable.
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janejellyroll wrote: »Derp_Diggler wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!
Let me see if I understand you. So... say I get hit by a car and put in hospital, or my luck, ICU, I'm single, and have no immediate family... am I supposed to supply my own food then? Just get up and run out to the local grocer?
If it doesn't affect your health a hospital should not be "forced" to provide it.
Is this also your position on kosher and halal meals in hospitals? You think people who need medical care should choose between that and keeping kosher/halal?
I had wondered this myself. To me, this seems like the form of religious discrimination that was being addressed. Note, I'm not of the "vegan religion?" per se, just live a vegan lifestyle do to my actual religious/spiritual affiliations. But, for example, would this same statement be told to someone who (totally hypothetical) was Christian or some other religious affiliation who was told that they could either have medical care or partake in some activity that went counter to the beliefs they held? For example, you can only have medical care in this hospital covered in images of Mohammed? We know you are Muslim but this is the only health care available to you so it's one or the other... or we know you are Christian but you only have the option of being treated by this Satanist hospital.
Yes, I know that neither of those things exist, but I'm simply using the imagery as an example to illustrate a point.
Personally, I live in the US... a country founded on the belief in religious freedoms... having a discussion about whether or not we should deny religious freedoms to a group. Honestly, it shouldn't matter. We should extend the respect because it's what this country should be doing based on our legal documents. Not that this actually happened in the US or will in the near future, but still.
It doesn't really matter if it's something that you think is wrong or stupid... providing it's not infringing on another groups rights of belief and practice, we should just let it be. This is the main reason why I'm not "one of those vegans". What I choose to believe and do/eat doesn't really affect you, and you have just as much right to make that choice as I do... hence the fact that you'll never hear me tell anyone their dietary choice to eat animal products is wrong. My beliefs aren't yours and I respect that difference. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round and I, personally think the world is a better place for all the diversity, be it dietary or otherwise.
And addressing the concerns about public cafeterias in schools... if I had children, I'd definitely pack them a lunch every day. Personally I know how difficult it can be to eat a balanced diet when left to whatever happens to be available and I know the burden of preparing special dietary foods in a large kitchen... been there and done that. For those reasons alone, I'd diligently pack their lunch every day.
My main and only concern is that, in some extreme circumstance, such as extended hospitalization, I get offered the option to not deter from my religious belief structure. I'm really sorry if my beliefs offend you because you think it's silly or whatever the reason might be... but I'm in no way telling you that you are wrong, nor am I trying to convert or prosthelytize. Personally, I only want the right and ability to continue practicing non-violence... other than that... you do you, whatever that may be.0 -
Canada is MUCH different from the US because they have a less centralized form of government. They have have the most decentralized federation in the world.0
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BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Derp_Diggler wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!
Let me see if I understand you. So... say I get hit by a car and put in hospital, or my luck, ICU, I'm single, and have no immediate family... am I supposed to supply my own food then? Just get up and run out to the local grocer?
If it doesn't affect your health a hospital should not be "forced" to provide it.
Is this also your position on kosher and halal meals in hospitals? You think people who need medical care should choose between that and keeping kosher/halal?
I had wondered this myself. To me, this seems like the form of religious discrimination that was being addressed. Note, I'm not of the "vegan religion?" per se, just live a vegan lifestyle do to my actual religious/spiritual affiliations. But, for example, would this same statement be told to someone who (totally hypothetical) was Christian or some other religious affiliation who was told that they could either have medical care or partake in some activity that went counter to the beliefs they held? For example, you can only have medical care in this hospital covered in images of Mohammed? We know you are Muslim but this is the only health care available to you so it's one or the other... or we know you are Christian but you only have the option of being treated by this Satanist hospital.
Yes, I know that neither of those things exist, but I'm simply using the imagery as an example to illustrate a point.
Personally, I live in the US... a country founded on the belief in religious freedoms... having a discussion about whether or not we should deny religious freedoms to a group. Honestly, it shouldn't matter. We should extend the respect because it's what this country should be doing based on our legal documents. Not that this actually happened in the US or will in the near future, but still.
It doesn't really matter if it's something that you think is wrong or stupid... providing it's not infringing on another groups rights of belief and practice, we should just let it be. This is the main reason why I'm not "one of those vegans". What I choose to believe and do/eat doesn't really affect you, and you have just as much right to make that choice as I do... hence the fact that you'll never hear me tell anyone their dietary choice to eat animal products is wrong. My beliefs aren't yours and I respect that difference. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round and I, personally think the world is a better place for all the diversity, be it dietary or otherwise.
And addressing the concerns about public cafeterias in schools... if I had children, I'd definitely pack them a lunch every day. Personally I know how difficult it can be to eat a balanced diet when left to whatever happens to be available and I know the burden of preparing special dietary foods in a large kitchen... been there and done that. For those reasons alone, I'd diligently pack their lunch every day.
My main and only concern is that, in some extreme circumstance, such as extended hospitalization, I get offered the option to not deter from my religious belief structure. I'm really sorry if my beliefs offend you because you think it's silly or whatever the reason might be... but I'm in no way telling you that you are wrong, nor am I trying to convert or prosthelytize. Personally, I only want the right and ability to continue practicing non-violence... other than that... you do you, whatever that may be.
Aren't a lot of Buddhists vegan? (Ok, I know nothing about Buddhists, but I would imagine it could be a common philosophy of theirs.)
And there are very few times that medical treatment is allowed to trump religion (such as parents refusing treatment for their deathly ill children for a condition where there is a common treatment because the parents are Jehovah's Witnesses). I would think there are very limited times that should be applied, and "meal time" should not be one of them...0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »myfelinepal wrote: »Is it completely necessary?
Are people holding down vegans and forcefeeding them honey?
Are vegans forced to sit at the back of the bus?
In the US, some people in prison do not have access to vegan meals. I'm not sure what the situation is in Canada.
People in prison should not have the right to vegan options. That's what prison is for: taking rights away as a consequence to committing a crime. They're felons, they eat what they're given.-1 -
BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Derp_Diggler wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!
Let me see if I understand you. So... say I get hit by a car and put in hospital, or my luck, ICU, I'm single, and have no immediate family... am I supposed to supply my own food then? Just get up and run out to the local grocer?
If it doesn't affect your health a hospital should not be "forced" to provide it.
Is this also your position on kosher and halal meals in hospitals? You think people who need medical care should choose between that and keeping kosher/halal?
I had wondered this myself. To me, this seems like the form of religious discrimination that was being addressed. Note, I'm not of the "vegan religion?" per se, just live a vegan lifestyle do to my actual religious/spiritual affiliations. But, for example, would this same statement be told to someone who (totally hypothetical) was Christian or some other religious affiliation who was told that they could either have medical care or partake in some activity that went counter to the beliefs they held? For example, you can only have medical care in this hospital covered in images of Mohammed? We know you are Muslim but this is the only health care available to you so it's one or the other... or we know you are Christian but you only have the option of being treated by this Satanist hospital.
Yes, I know that neither of those things exist, but I'm simply using the imagery as an example to illustrate a point.
Personally, I live in the US... a country founded on the belief in religious freedoms... having a discussion about whether or not we should deny religious freedoms to a group. Honestly, it shouldn't matter. We should extend the respect because it's what this country should be doing based on our legal documents. Not that this actually happened in the US or will in the near future, but still.
It doesn't really matter if it's something that you think is wrong or stupid... providing it's not infringing on another groups rights of belief and practice, we should just let it be. This is the main reason why I'm not "one of those vegans". What I choose to believe and do/eat doesn't really affect you, and you have just as much right to make that choice as I do... hence the fact that you'll never hear me tell anyone their dietary choice to eat animal products is wrong. My beliefs aren't yours and I respect that difference. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round and I, personally think the world is a better place for all the diversity, be it dietary or otherwise.
And addressing the concerns about public cafeterias in schools... if I had children, I'd definitely pack them a lunch every day. Personally I know how difficult it can be to eat a balanced diet when left to whatever happens to be available and I know the burden of preparing special dietary foods in a large kitchen... been there and done that. For those reasons alone, I'd diligently pack their lunch every day.
My main and only concern is that, in some extreme circumstance, such as extended hospitalization, I get offered the option to not deter from my religious belief structure. I'm really sorry if my beliefs offend you because you think it's silly or whatever the reason might be... but I'm in no way telling you that you are wrong, nor am I trying to convert or prosthelytize. Personally, I only want the right and ability to continue practicing non-violence... other than that... you do you, whatever that may be.
Aren't a lot of Buddhists vegan? (Ok, I know nothing about Buddhists, but I would imagine it could be a common philosophy of theirs.)
And there are very few times that medical treatment is allowed to trump religion (such as parents refusing treatment for their deathly ill children for a condition where there is a common treatment because the parents are Jehovah's Witnesses). I would think there are very limited times that should be applied, and "meal time" should not be one of them...
Hi... Buddhist Vegan. Quite a few of us depending on the tradition. Some traditions, such as mendicant traditions are lax about it.. but that's because when you're begging for alms, you eat what you are given. Others such as Tibetan Buddhists don't follow it because it's next to impossible in the local areas... when there is nothing to eat but Yak and yak products... well, you eat yak, lol. But it's fairly prevelant in some parts of the world and some traditions due to non-violent beliefs and the belief that every living thing has Buddha nature and has at one point in time been in every possible form of relationship with you including at times, your mother, father, brother, wife, etc.
That said... I don't really bring it up because I'm not about converting people to anything or trying to change anyone's mind... I just do me... part of the whole, right effort thing. My main concern in terms of religious debate is educating myself in others beliefs so that I can properly respect their beliefs during conversation and expand my own knowledge through challenging debate or mindful observance.0 -
AllOutof_Bubblegum wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »myfelinepal wrote: »Is it completely necessary?
Are people holding down vegans and forcefeeding them honey?
Are vegans forced to sit at the back of the bus?
In the US, some people in prison do not have access to vegan meals. I'm not sure what the situation is in Canada.
People in prison should not have the right to vegan options. That's what prison is for: taking rights away as a consequence to committing a crime. They're felons, they eat what they're given.
But they do have the right to practice their primary spiritual belief system... something that's upheld by constitutional law.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Derp_Diggler wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!
Let me see if I understand you. So... say I get hit by a car and put in hospital, or my luck, ICU, I'm single, and have no immediate family... am I supposed to supply my own food then? Just get up and run out to the local grocer?
If it doesn't affect your health a hospital should not be "forced" to provide it.
Is this also your position on kosher and halal meals in hospitals? You think people who need medical care should choose between that and keeping kosher/halal?
I had wondered this myself. To me, this seems like the form of religious discrimination that was being addressed. Note, I'm not of the "vegan religion?" per se, just live a vegan lifestyle do to my actual religious/spiritual affiliations. But, for example, would this same statement be told to someone who (totally hypothetical) was Christian or some other religious affiliation who was told that they could either have medical care or partake in some activity that went counter to the beliefs they held? For example, you can only have medical care in this hospital covered in images of Mohammed? We know you are Muslim but this is the only health care available to you so it's one or the other... or we know you are Christian but you only have the option of being treated by this Satanist hospital.
Yes, I know that neither of those things exist, but I'm simply using the imagery as an example to illustrate a point.
Personally, I live in the US... a country founded on the belief in religious freedoms... having a discussion about whether or not we should deny religious freedoms to a group. Honestly, it shouldn't matter. We should extend the respect because it's what this country should be doing based on our legal documents. Not that this actually happened in the US or will in the near future, but still.
It doesn't really matter if it's something that you think is wrong or stupid... providing it's not infringing on another groups rights of belief and practice, we should just let it be. This is the main reason why I'm not "one of those vegans". What I choose to believe and do/eat doesn't really affect you, and you have just as much right to make that choice as I do... hence the fact that you'll never hear me tell anyone their dietary choice to eat animal products is wrong. My beliefs aren't yours and I respect that difference. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round and I, personally think the world is a better place for all the diversity, be it dietary or otherwise.
And addressing the concerns about public cafeterias in schools... if I had children, I'd definitely pack them a lunch every day. Personally I know how difficult it can be to eat a balanced diet when left to whatever happens to be available and I know the burden of preparing special dietary foods in a large kitchen... been there and done that. For those reasons alone, I'd diligently pack their lunch every day.
My main and only concern is that, in some extreme circumstance, such as extended hospitalization, I get offered the option to not deter from my religious belief structure. I'm really sorry if my beliefs offend you because you think it's silly or whatever the reason might be... but I'm in no way telling you that you are wrong, nor am I trying to convert or prosthelytize. Personally, I only want the right and ability to continue practicing non-violence... other than that... you do you, whatever that may be.
Aren't a lot of Buddhists vegan? (Ok, I know nothing about Buddhists, but I would imagine it could be a common philosophy of theirs.)
And there are very few times that medical treatment is allowed to trump religion (such as parents refusing treatment for their deathly ill children for a condition where there is a common treatment because the parents are Jehovah's Witnesses). I would think there are very limited times that should be applied, and "meal time" should not be one of them...
Hi... Buddhist Vegan. Quite a few of us depending on the tradition. Some traditions, such as mendicant traditions are lax about it.. but that's because when you're begging for alms, you eat what you are given. Others such as Tibetan Buddhists don't follow it because it's next to impossible in the local areas... when there is nothing to eat but Yak and yak products... well, you eat yak, lol. But it's fairly prevelant in some parts of the world and some traditions due to non-violent beliefs and the belief that every living thing has Buddha nature and has at one point in time been in every possible form of relationship with you including at times, your mother, father, brother, wife, etc.
That said... I don't really bring it up because I'm not about converting people to anything or trying to change anyone's mind... I just do me... part of the whole, right effort thing. My main concern in terms of religious debate is educating myself in others beliefs so that I can properly respect their beliefs during conversation and expand my own knowledge through challenging debate or mindful observance.
True; I'm just thinking some people could look at a request for halal or kosher is acceptable because it is *actually* a religion as opposed to a vegan (which many view I guess as a "lesser belief"; not really sure how to describe what I'm thinking). But while some people may choose to be vegan regardless of their religion, others choose it because of their religion. Both of those opinions should be valid, but some people might put more stock in religious-based veganism and accommodating it.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Derp_Diggler wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!
Let me see if I understand you. So... say I get hit by a car and put in hospital, or my luck, ICU, I'm single, and have no immediate family... am I supposed to supply my own food then? Just get up and run out to the local grocer?
If it doesn't affect your health a hospital should not be "forced" to provide it.
Is this also your position on kosher and halal meals in hospitals? You think people who need medical care should choose between that and keeping kosher/halal?
I had wondered this myself. To me, this seems like the form of religious discrimination that was being addressed. Note, I'm not of the "vegan religion?" per se, just live a vegan lifestyle do to my actual religious/spiritual affiliations. But, for example, would this same statement be told to someone who (totally hypothetical) was Christian or some other religious affiliation who was told that they could either have medical care or partake in some activity that went counter to the beliefs they held? For example, you can only have medical care in this hospital covered in images of Mohammed? We know you are Muslim but this is the only health care available to you so it's one or the other... or we know you are Christian but you only have the option of being treated by this Satanist hospital.
Yes, I know that neither of those things exist, but I'm simply using the imagery as an example to illustrate a point.
Personally, I live in the US... a country founded on the belief in religious freedoms... having a discussion about whether or not we should deny religious freedoms to a group. Honestly, it shouldn't matter. We should extend the respect because it's what this country should be doing based on our legal documents. Not that this actually happened in the US or will in the near future, but still.
It doesn't really matter if it's something that you think is wrong or stupid... providing it's not infringing on another groups rights of belief and practice, we should just let it be. This is the main reason why I'm not "one of those vegans". What I choose to believe and do/eat doesn't really affect you, and you have just as much right to make that choice as I do... hence the fact that you'll never hear me tell anyone their dietary choice to eat animal products is wrong. My beliefs aren't yours and I respect that difference. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round and I, personally think the world is a better place for all the diversity, be it dietary or otherwise.
And addressing the concerns about public cafeterias in schools... if I had children, I'd definitely pack them a lunch every day. Personally I know how difficult it can be to eat a balanced diet when left to whatever happens to be available and I know the burden of preparing special dietary foods in a large kitchen... been there and done that. For those reasons alone, I'd diligently pack their lunch every day.
My main and only concern is that, in some extreme circumstance, such as extended hospitalization, I get offered the option to not deter from my religious belief structure. I'm really sorry if my beliefs offend you because you think it's silly or whatever the reason might be... but I'm in no way telling you that you are wrong, nor am I trying to convert or prosthelytize. Personally, I only want the right and ability to continue practicing non-violence... other than that... you do you, whatever that may be.
Aren't a lot of Buddhists vegan? (Ok, I know nothing about Buddhists, but I would imagine it could be a common philosophy of theirs.)
And there are very few times that medical treatment is allowed to trump religion (such as parents refusing treatment for their deathly ill children for a condition where there is a common treatment because the parents are Jehovah's Witnesses). I would think there are very limited times that should be applied, and "meal time" should not be one of them...
Hi... Buddhist Vegan. Quite a few of us depending on the tradition. Some traditions, such as mendicant traditions are lax about it.. but that's because when you're begging for alms, you eat what you are given. Others such as Tibetan Buddhists don't follow it because it's next to impossible in the local areas... when there is nothing to eat but Yak and yak products... well, you eat yak, lol. But it's fairly prevelant in some parts of the world and some traditions due to non-violent beliefs and the belief that every living thing has Buddha nature and has at one point in time been in every possible form of relationship with you including at times, your mother, father, brother, wife, etc.
That said... I don't really bring it up because I'm not about converting people to anything or trying to change anyone's mind... I just do me... part of the whole, right effort thing. My main concern in terms of religious debate is educating myself in others beliefs so that I can properly respect their beliefs during conversation and expand my own knowledge through challenging debate or mindful observance.
True; I'm just thinking some people could look at a request for halal or kosher is acceptable because it is *actually* a religion as opposed to a vegan (which many view I guess as a "lesser belief"; not really sure how to describe what I'm thinking). But while some people may choose to be vegan regardless of their religion, others choose it because of their religion. Both of those opinions should be valid, but some people might put more stock in religious-based veganism and accommodating it.
I think you hit the nail on the head with that observation.0 -
BecomingBane wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Derp_Diggler wrote: »BecomingBane wrote: »summerkissed wrote: »I'm not against vegans or vegetarians or this or that but it's a choice that they make and with choices come sacrifices and if that means you need to supply your own food then well that's apart of your choice to eat a certain way!! I choose not to eat certain foods but that doesn't mean I go into hospital or schools expecting them to adhere to my choices......it just means I go prepared!! My choice, my responsibility!!
Let me see if I understand you. So... say I get hit by a car and put in hospital, or my luck, ICU, I'm single, and have no immediate family... am I supposed to supply my own food then? Just get up and run out to the local grocer?
If it doesn't affect your health a hospital should not be "forced" to provide it.
Is this also your position on kosher and halal meals in hospitals? You think people who need medical care should choose between that and keeping kosher/halal?
I had wondered this myself. To me, this seems like the form of religious discrimination that was being addressed. Note, I'm not of the "vegan religion?" per se, just live a vegan lifestyle do to my actual religious/spiritual affiliations. But, for example, would this same statement be told to someone who (totally hypothetical) was Christian or some other religious affiliation who was told that they could either have medical care or partake in some activity that went counter to the beliefs they held? For example, you can only have medical care in this hospital covered in images of Mohammed? We know you are Muslim but this is the only health care available to you so it's one or the other... or we know you are Christian but you only have the option of being treated by this Satanist hospital.
Yes, I know that neither of those things exist, but I'm simply using the imagery as an example to illustrate a point.
Personally, I live in the US... a country founded on the belief in religious freedoms... having a discussion about whether or not we should deny religious freedoms to a group. Honestly, it shouldn't matter. We should extend the respect because it's what this country should be doing based on our legal documents. Not that this actually happened in the US or will in the near future, but still.
It doesn't really matter if it's something that you think is wrong or stupid... providing it's not infringing on another groups rights of belief and practice, we should just let it be. This is the main reason why I'm not "one of those vegans". What I choose to believe and do/eat doesn't really affect you, and you have just as much right to make that choice as I do... hence the fact that you'll never hear me tell anyone their dietary choice to eat animal products is wrong. My beliefs aren't yours and I respect that difference. It takes all kinds to make the world go 'round and I, personally think the world is a better place for all the diversity, be it dietary or otherwise.
And addressing the concerns about public cafeterias in schools... if I had children, I'd definitely pack them a lunch every day. Personally I know how difficult it can be to eat a balanced diet when left to whatever happens to be available and I know the burden of preparing special dietary foods in a large kitchen... been there and done that. For those reasons alone, I'd diligently pack their lunch every day.
My main and only concern is that, in some extreme circumstance, such as extended hospitalization, I get offered the option to not deter from my religious belief structure. I'm really sorry if my beliefs offend you because you think it's silly or whatever the reason might be... but I'm in no way telling you that you are wrong, nor am I trying to convert or prosthelytize. Personally, I only want the right and ability to continue practicing non-violence... other than that... you do you, whatever that may be.
Aren't a lot of Buddhists vegan? (Ok, I know nothing about Buddhists, but I would imagine it could be a common philosophy of theirs.)
And there are very few times that medical treatment is allowed to trump religion (such as parents refusing treatment for their deathly ill children for a condition where there is a common treatment because the parents are Jehovah's Witnesses). I would think there are very limited times that should be applied, and "meal time" should not be one of them...
Hi... Buddhist Vegan. Quite a few of us depending on the tradition. Some traditions, such as mendicant traditions are lax about it.. but that's because when you're begging for alms, you eat what you are given. Others such as Tibetan Buddhists don't follow it because it's next to impossible in the local areas... when there is nothing to eat but Yak and yak products... well, you eat yak, lol. But it's fairly prevelant in some parts of the world and some traditions due to non-violent beliefs and the belief that every living thing has Buddha nature and has at one point in time been in every possible form of relationship with you including at times, your mother, father, brother, wife, etc.
That said... I don't really bring it up because I'm not about converting people to anything or trying to change anyone's mind... I just do me... part of the whole, right effort thing. My main concern in terms of religious debate is educating myself in others beliefs so that I can properly respect their beliefs during conversation and expand my own knowledge through challenging debate or mindful observance.
True; I'm just thinking some people could look at a request for halal or kosher is acceptable because it is *actually* a religion as opposed to a vegan (which many view I guess as a "lesser belief"; not really sure how to describe what I'm thinking). But while some people may choose to be vegan regardless of their religion, others choose it because of their religion. Both of those opinions should be valid, but some people might put more stock in religious-based veganism and accommodating it.
I think you hit the nail on the head with that observation.
Yes, yes she did.0 -
If you're going to make Halal or Kosher available, this is fair. It's the same thing in the end, it's a belief system, the fact that one of them is a religion doesn't mean it's more important, in my opinion.0
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