Which Typically Causes More Knee Issues: Squats/Lunges or Jumping?

So I got a lot of pain in one of my knees after about two weeks of doing Jillian Michaels' 30DS, four times each week; without shoes. I realize now that maybe proper shoes would have helped with support. I got some X-rays done the day of the bad knee pain and there were no fractures of injuries. The doctor told me to just lay off of it for a bit. Well, I have laid off all jumping and JM videos, replacing it with the elliptical and walking, and my knees have been fine. But I am totally not getting as much of a workout, I feel, as with the JM videos.

I have a few questions and issues here: Firstly,

1. I really want to build some muscle. I want to use JM's No More Trouble Zones or even 30DS without the jumping, (meaning I would just move my hips and shake my arms so there would be no high impact, but still get that heart rate up a bit. I would do extra cardio, like the elliptical, to get those extra calories I would surely be missing). Does this sound like a bad idea?

2. In your experience, what generally causes more knee issues: Jumping around or squats/lunges? I feel that I pay special attention to form during squats/lunges and make modifications, and that I don't really feel any strain when I do them. Jumping on the other hand... It doesn't exactly "hurt" while doing them, but it still feels pretty heavy on my feet and knees.

Thank you! I realize this is a lot, so please ask questions if I am being unclear.
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Replies

  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,210 Member
    A few thoughts..

    - In my experience, doing too much too soon causes the most problems.

    - Some people can jump fine but not squat/lunge, and for some it's the other way around. Jumping does tend to cause more sudden traumatic injuries, like sprains and things.

    - X-rays can rule out a fracture but not soft tissue injuries (meniscus tears, etc). An MRI is needed for that.

    - JM won't "build muscle" much. It's more of a "workout" than a true strength program, like NROL4W, for example. :+1:

  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
    I think if jumping feels impactful, you should stop that.

    JM has almost zero education in fitness, believe it or not. There is a whole industry of video fitness from people who know what they're doing. I would look past her and Beachbody both.

    Good luck!
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    rosestring wrote: »
    So I got a lot of pain in one of my knees after about two weeks of doing Jillian Michaels' 30DS, four times each week; without shoes. I realize now that maybe proper shoes would have helped with support. I got some X-rays done the day of the bad knee pain and there were no fractures of injuries. The doctor told me to just lay off of it for a bit. Well, I have laid off all jumping and JM videos, replacing it with the elliptical and walking, and my knees have been fine. But I am totally not getting as much of a workout, I feel, as with the JM videos.

    I have a few questions and issues here: Firstly,

    1. I really want to build some muscle. I want to use JM's No More Trouble Zones or even 30DS without the jumping, (meaning I would just move my hips and shake my arms so there would be no high impact, but still get that heart rate up a bit. I would do extra cardio, like the elliptical, to get those extra calories I would surely be missing). Does this sound like a bad idea?

    2. In your experience, what generally causes more knee issues: Jumping around or squats/lunges? I feel that I pay special attention to form during squats/lunges and make modifications, and that I don't really feel any strain when I do them. Jumping on the other hand... It doesn't exactly "hurt" while doing them, but it still feels pretty heavy on my feet and knees.

    Thank you! I realize this is a lot, so please ask questions if I am being unclear.

    I got knee issues doing 30 DS years ago, also without shoes

    I believe it was the jumping jacks, being overweight and unfit ...it is simply too much strain and impact without supportive footwear

    I never went back to 30ds
  • rosestring
    rosestring Posts: 225 Member
    Cherimoose wrote: »
    A few thoughts..

    - In my experience, doing too much too soon causes the most problems.

    - Some people can jump fine but not squat/lunge, and for some it's the other way around. Jumping does tend to cause more sudden traumatic injuries, like sprains and things.

    - X-rays can rule out a fracture but not soft tissue injuries (meniscus tears, etc). An MRI is needed for that.

    - JM won't "build muscle" much. It's more of a "workout" than a true strength program, like NROL4W, for example. :+1:

    Well, I mainly want to tighten up, lose inches, and get stronger. I cannot do programs lime NROL due to not being able to afford a gym membership or the equipment. What do you suggest?
  • EpiGeek40
    EpiGeek40 Posts: 5 Member
    My knees never gave me problems (and I'm 43!) until the end of JM's Body Revolution. I did the3 month program and I think it was a cumulative effect of all the jumping and the squats/lunges without attention to proper form. I tried starting Body Revolution again (still weight to lose) because I totally built muscle strength and cardio fitness doing it, but had to stop because knees just couldn't handle it.

    I too wanted to do more strength and build/maintain muscle while burning fat, so I'm now doing Cathe Friedrich workouts (her Ripped with Hiit series) and my knees are improving. Cathe does include jumps and plyo moves, but it's not overdone and her form/timing is much more reasonable than JM.
  • KathyApplebaum
    KathyApplebaum Posts: 188 Member
    Jumping is WAY more stressful on the knees. The squats and lunges, with proper form, will strengthen your knees and make you less likely to have problems in the future.
  • nordlead2005
    nordlead2005 Posts: 1,303 Member
    rosestring wrote: »
    Cherimoose wrote: »
    A few thoughts..

    - In my experience, doing too much too soon causes the most problems.

    - Some people can jump fine but not squat/lunge, and for some it's the other way around. Jumping does tend to cause more sudden traumatic injuries, like sprains and things.

    - X-rays can rule out a fracture but not soft tissue injuries (meniscus tears, etc). An MRI is needed for that.

    - JM won't "build muscle" much. It's more of a "workout" than a true strength program, like NROL4W, for example. :+1:

    Well, I mainly want to tighten up, lose inches, and get stronger. I cannot do programs lime NROL due to not being able to afford a gym membership or the equipment. What do you suggest?

    startbodyweight.com (follow their basic/beginner routine)

    You don't need a gym to build muscle. Iron tends to be simpler and you can progress further, but bodyweight exercises will take you pretty far.

    You could also look into TRX.

    As for tightening up and losing inches, that comes down to eating at a deficit.
  • minniestar55
    minniestar55 Posts: 346 Member
    For me, jumping...I'm older & years of impact from exercise, etc has taken a toll. So I dial back jumping/plyometrics.
  • Shells918
    Shells918 Posts: 1,071 Member
    I think if jumping feels impactful, you should stop that.

    JM has almost zero education in fitness, believe it or not. There is a whole industry of video fitness from people who know what they're doing. I would look past her and Beachbody both.

    Good luck!

    I find this an odd statement given that I've lost 19 inches in 3 months using a Beachbody routine. And I know I'm not the only one having success with them or Jillian Michaels. She's in really good shape for someone who doesn't know anything about fitness.

    OP - I hurt my knees working out barefoot doing kickboxing. Now that I'm wearing sneakers and doing something lower impact they feel much better.
  • rosestring
    rosestring Posts: 225 Member
    edited January 2016
    Ugh, I realize this is just how it is, but I have got no clue what to do... I guess it really is different for everyone (not that that is some revelation).

    Thanks everyone for the feedback! I might try NMTZ twice a week for a few weeks and then gradually increase it to four or five times a week over time. If I do have bad knees, that should not permanently damage as long as I pay attention and stop as soon as I feel any pain, if that happens, right?

    Thank you!
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,210 Member
    darlswife wrote: »
    JM has almost zero education in fitness, believe it or not. There is a whole industry of video fitness from people who know what they're doing.

    I find this an odd statement given that I've lost 19 inches in 3 months using a Beachbody routine. And I know I'm not the only one having success with them or Jillian Michaels.

    You lost the weight due to a calorie deficit. ;)

    All programs have some followers who are successful with them, and all programs have some followers who are injured by them. Generally speaking, a trainer who has better credentials is less likely to injure people. Jillian got 2 easy, entry-level certifications 20 years ago, so she has the credentials of a new trainer at your local gym. And her workouts prove it. For example, she has a bad habit of pairing larger muscle groups with smaller muscles - like lunges with bicep curls, for example. Since your smaller muscles tire out first, the larger muscles (which burn more calories) never get a proper workout. Pairing exercises also increases the injury risk, since it's harder to focus on doing lunges correctly while you're doing something else.
    rosestring wrote: »
    I might try NMTZ twice a week for a few weeks and then gradually increase it to four or five times a week over time.

    Most fitness professionals recommend against doing strength training 2 days in a row, to avoid overtraining injuries. Try some cardio on your non-lifting days. :+1:
  • elghee123
    elghee123 Posts: 491 Member
    Cherimoose wrote: »

    All programs have some followers who are successful with them, and all programs have some followers who are injured by them. Generally speaking, a trainer who has better credentials is less likely to injure people. Jillian got 2 easy, entry-level certifications 20 years ago, so she has the credentials of a new trainer at your local gym. And her workouts prove it. For example, she has a bad habit of pairing larger muscle groups with smaller muscles - like lunges with bicep curls, for example. Since your smaller muscles tire out first, the larger muscles (which burn more calories) never get a proper workout. Pairing exercises also increases the injury risk, since it's harder to focus on doing lunges correctly while you're doing something else.

    I am not quite sure but could this be the very reason why my knees are hurting after a few sessions of doing the No More Trouble Zones by Jillian Michaels?

    I love her routine, don't get me wrong. I love the results of the muscles appearing in my legs. It is just that my knees is killing me a day after. Can you suggest good workout?
  • middlehaitch
    middlehaitch Posts: 8,383 Member
    Just finishing a month of 30DS, barefoot. I replaced JJs with step ups using the JJ arm movement, I don't like high impact.

    At home videos aren't my thing, I did it as a challenge to see what one was like- still not for me.

    Try doing Nerdfitness a bodyweight routine you can do at home with better strength results.

    Cheers, h.
    http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2009/12/09/beginner-body-weight-workout-burn-fat-build-muscle/
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    darlswife wrote: »
    I think if jumping feels impactful, you should stop that.

    JM has almost zero education in fitness, believe it or not. There is a whole industry of video fitness from people who know what they're doing. I would look past her and Beachbody both.

    Good luck!

    I find this an odd statement given that I've lost 19 inches in 3 months using a Beachbody routine. And I know I'm not the only one having success with them or Jillian Michaels. She's in really good shape for someone who doesn't know anything about fitness.

    OP - I hurt my knees working out barefoot doing kickboxing. Now that I'm wearing sneakers and doing something lower impact they feel much better.

    @WalkingAlong is right Micheals has no real training in fitness. Does she workout and is she in shape, sure but she is using other people's training methods and research in the videos. She is just a mouthpiece created by Hollywood.
  • SonyaCele
    SonyaCele Posts: 2,842 Member
    jumping hurts my knees, i never jump.
    Lunges kinda hurt but i do them sometimes.
    And i have zero knee pain with squats.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,535 Member
    You only need to see JM butchering a KB Swing to know that she doesn't know anything about anything.

    As @Wheelhouse15 said: plenty of people fall off injured on BB and JM type routines. They are either suboptimal or downright dangerous

    Examples:

    Insanity? Jumping that much, that many days in a row without and consideration to recovery/adaptation? Give me a break.

    JM KB workout? Good luck with your spine after copying that atrocious form.

    Yes, many people get through these programmes, manage not to injure themselves and adapt and survive. More by luck than judgement. And results? These are mostly down to the high calorie burn producing a meaningful calorie deficit - that could have been achieved without rupturing a body part.

    I incorporate both KB and jump training into my programming and am appalled by these so-called fitness gurus and their approach to "form"/"programming". /endrant
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,535 Member
    edited January 2016
    rosestring wrote: »
    So I got a lot of pain in one of my knees after about two weeks of doing Jillian Michaels' 30DS, four times each week; without shoes. I realize now that maybe proper shoes would have helped with support. I got some X-rays done the day of the bad knee pain and there were no fractures of injuries. The doctor told me to just lay off of it for a bit. Well, I have laid off all jumping and JM videos, replacing it with the elliptical and walking, and my knees have been fine. But I am totally not getting as much of a workout, I feel, as with the JM videos.

    I have a few questions and issues here: Firstly,

    1. I really want to build some muscle. I want to use JM's No More Trouble Zones or even 30DS without the jumping, (meaning I would just move my hips and shake my arms so there would be no high impact, but still get that heart rate up a bit. I would do extra cardio, like the elliptical, to get those extra calories I would surely be missing). Does this sound like a bad idea?

    2. In your experience, what generally causes more knee issues: Jumping around or squats/lunges? I feel that I pay special attention to form during squats/lunges and make modifications, and that I don't really feel any strain when I do them. Jumping on the other hand... It doesn't exactly "hurt" while doing them, but it still feels pretty heavy on my feet and knees.

    Thank you! I realize this is a lot, so please ask questions if I am being unclear.

    A less ranty answer:

    1) Jumping is an explosive/high cns activity/technical activity. Things happen fast and tissues must react quickly. Form must be observed. Typically sets should be 1-3 reps. If it's the workout itself, you'll typically want 8 sets of 1-3 reps (depending on the jump variation) with decent inter-set rest. Maybe a couple of minutes (more if you are a good jumper and are pushing your capabilities). The better of a jumper you are, then the more days you need between explosive efforts for recovery/adaptation.

    Just asking your soft tissues to do a bunch of explosive work they've not been conditioned to is ask for trouble. It's like someone who's never squatted before walking into a squat rack and putting bodyweight on the bar and doing a 20-rep squat routine - the results aren't going to be pretty. Basically these routines ask a non-technically proficient jumper to butcher a high number of reps without the soft tissue conditioning to save them from their own foolishness.

    (If you want to include jumping pre-lifting then you'll want to follow the rep scheme above but cut the number for sets down to, say, 3. I tend to find a jump style that switches on the cns in the same fashion as the activity that follows - for instance vertical jump/box jump is great to do before deadlifts. If I was sprinting, I might choose something like a standing broad jump.)

    Now you can see why exercise programmes that have you jump in and just do a prescribed total amount of jumping in a set time without regard to any of the stuff I've discussed

    2) In my experience, squats, like jumps, don't cause knee issues if they are done correctly. That means good form, good programming, adequate recovery, frequency and volume. Also, if you take an exercise you can do correctly and overnight quadruple your volume, then you're going to have problems. You have to find a way to go from where you are to where you want to be and that includes a) better technical mastery and b) slowly increasing the volume/intensity a bit at a time to give the soft tissues time to adapt to the demands you are placing on them.

    /endlessrantyanswer
  • shor0814
    shor0814 Posts: 559 Member
    rosestring wrote: »

    Well, I mainly want to tighten up, lose inches, and get stronger. I cannot do programs lime NROL due to not being able to afford a gym membership or the equipment. What do you suggest?

    startbodyweight.com (follow their basic/beginner routine)

    You don't need a gym to build muscle. Iron tends to be simpler and you can progress further, but bodyweight exercises will take you pretty far.

    You could also look into TRX.

    As for tightening up and losing inches, that comes down to eating at a deficit.

    This is probably your best solution with one tweak. If you want to do cardio then do cardio for heart health and stamina not weight loss. Hit the elliptical or cycle or walk to keep the impact low and improve your cardio health.

    Do some body weight programs (besides the above there is convict conditioning, nerdfitness, you are your own gym, etc) for your strength, and get your diet in check.

    You can and will lose weight through a calorie deficit and you won't hurt your knees by jumping around to a JM video.
  • srujana_kanneganti
    srujana_kanneganti Posts: 63 Member
    edited January 2016
    fitnessblender.com has some bodyweight strength videos. They also have low impact workouts for people with knee issues.

    For the dumbell ones, they also say you can creative at home and create your own weights--large soup cans, milk jugs of water, bags of books, etc. This will allow you more options.
  • lorrpb
    lorrpb Posts: 11,465 Member
    It would depend on the nature of the knee problem as to which is worse..,