Losing weight/gaining muscle?

jflanaganasl · February 2016

So I'm finding this whole concept very confusing - on the one hand, there are people saying that it's impossible to do both. On the other hand - it seems counter-intuitive to try to lose the fat first and then build the muscle. I'd ideally like to work on toning my body with strength training rather than just burning fat with, say, cardio, so that I achieve a better overall look (in my eyes) and more strength.

My stats: I am a 24 yr old female, 5'0. Heaviest was 170lbs in Sept., now down to 160 (lost most of it in January). When I started getting serious on January 1st, I began eating a calorie deficit (1200cal/day, sometimes a bit over, but always below 1500) and working out around 3 times/week. Workout consists of dumb bell lifting exercises, focusing on arms, abs and legs (I will alternate these sections between days, or sometimes do a day of arms/abs, abs/legs, some combo of the three). I usually engage in this type of strength training for 30-45 minutes and then try to do at least 15 minutes of cardio. I incorporate protein powder in my day and sometimes protein bars as well (I'm a vegetarian).

I guess what I'm asking is, based on what I'm doing, is this a good course of action? Should I abandon all hope of toning because "you can't lose fat/gain muscle at the same time"? Help me understand this nonsense.

malibu927 · February 2016

Unless you're brand new to lifting, it is impossible. In order to gain muscle, you need a calorie surplus.

That isn't to say that strength training isn't important while you lose weight. It's very beneficial in retaining your muscle and making most of the loss fat. The best thing to do is to look into a progressive lifting program (Stronglifts 5x5 or New Rules of Lifting for Women) to continue with while you lose. Then when you reach your goal weight, you can evaluate whether or not you want to add some muscle.

wanzik · February 2016

You are doing great! You can build muscle and lose fat. That being your goal I would suggest doing the cardio first and then lifting, taking some protein immediately afterwards.

FussFreeFitness · February 2016

For those who are new to lifting weights it is possible to lose fat and gain a bit of muscle at the same time. It becomes more difficult as you become more seasoned with it.

Getting adequate protein (.08-1g/lb of LEAN body weight) and keeping your calories within a moderate range will help you do both. Keep the calories around that 1500/day range, even on rest days. Lower the cardio to maybe 2-3x/week and do more HIIT cardio, than steady state, and make sure that you are lifting heavy enough to stay within the 8-10 rep range. You should start to see some really good results within a few weeks.

JenMc14 · February 2016

As was said, strength training helps you retain muscle while losing fat, which will help you feel like you look more "toned". Without resistance training, you'll lose fat and muscle, and while that shows a scale loss faster sometimes, you might not like the result as you'll possibly still feel a bit flabby. You don't necessarily need to gain muscle to achieve the look it seems you want. You have to maintain what you have, then lose the fat that covers it.

jflanaganasl · February 2016

malibu927 wrote: »

Unless you're brand new to lifting, it is impossible. In order to gain muscle, you need a calorie surplus.

That isn't to say that strength training isn't important while you lose weight. It's very beneficial in retaining your muscle and making most of the loss fat. The best thing to do is to look into a progressive lifting program (Stronglifts 5x5 or New Rules of Lifting for Women) to continue with while you lose. Then when you reach your goal weight, you can evaluate whether or not you want to add some muscle.

I'm brand new to lifting. However, I have done bodyweight strength training in the past (lots of martial arts).

jflanaganasl · February 2016

jrider84 wrote: »

For those who are new to lifting weights it is possible to lose fat and gain a bit of muscle at the same time. It becomes more difficult as you become more seasoned with it.

Getting adequate protein (.08-1g/lb of LEAN body weight) and keeping your calories within a moderate range will help you do both. Keep the calories around that 1500/day range, even on rest days. Lower the cardio to maybe 2-3x/week and do more HIIT cardio, than steady state, and make sure that you are lifting heavy enough to stay within the 8-10 rep range. You should start to see some really good results within a few weeks.

This makes sense. I haven't seen a HUGE change on the scale (it was about 5 or 6lbs in January, which I think is a decent rate), but I am noticing body changes already, and I think that's due in part to the lifting. I'm also short, which makes small changes more noticeable on my body. But I felt like I was going crazy, that there was no way I could be starting to 'tone' already, and that I was just seeing what I wanted to see and that my fiance was just being nice when he said it

I think I'm confusing gaining muscle and just enhancing or accentuating muscle, if that makes sense. Could be that I don't necessarily need to GAIN more muscle, just make what I have more visible.

kshama2001 · February 2016

I'm definitely increasing strength while losing weight, and another time when I started at a lower weight I gained noticeable definition while losing weight.

I_Will_End_You · February 2016

jflanaganasl wrote: »

I think I'm confusing gaining muscle and just enhancing or accentuating muscle, if that makes sense. Could be that I don't necessarily need to GAIN more muscle, just make what I have more visible.

That is exactly what people mistake as "toning". Keep strength training to hold on the LBM you have.

MimiOfTheFraserValley · February 2016

I'm definitely no expert in this, & I agree with you that it can be quite confusing, especially if you're getting mixed messages, but from the bit that I know, it sounds like you're doing well & are on to a good start, jflanaganasl. I have a lot of friends who've done better doing strength training while working on cardio than those who just did cardio.

All the best to you, & I hope you get this all sorted out. There's some great advice in the comments above.

Glowiie1 · February 2016

I started the same type of post a while ago and got quite a few responses!

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10204034/lifting-and-weight-loss-what-are-your-thoughts#latest

MMA_Fighter · February 2016

You are looking for "cut" not bulk. So, lift lighter weights while doing more reps.
IE: 15 pound arm curls 15 times vs 25 pound arm curls 8 times.
Heavy weight/less reps = Muscle bulking
Light weight/more reps = Muscle toning

Also, don't worry about the scale "your weight" right now -

jflanaganasl · February 2016

MichelleNRgzed wrote: »

I'm definitely no expert in this, & I agree with you that it can be quite confusing, especially if you're getting mixed messages, but from the bit that I know, it sounds like you're doing well & are on to a good start, jflanaganasl. I have a lot of friends who've done better doing strength training while working on cardio than those who just did cardio.

All the best to you, & I hope you get this all sorted out. There's some great advice in the comments above.

Thanks. I am definitely seeing better results than when I was just doing cardio. My body is very clearly responding to this better.

I am also a student of Krav Maga, so I am trying to really focus on the strength aspect - it's a lot of fun to take down dudes twice my size, but some of the moves are a struggle for obvious reasons

DaddieCat · February 2016

jflanaganasl wrote: »

jrider84 wrote: »

For those who are new to lifting weights it is possible to lose fat and gain a bit of muscle at the same time. It becomes more difficult as you become more seasoned with it.

Getting adequate protein (.08-1g/lb of LEAN body weight) and keeping your calories within a moderate range will help you do both. Keep the calories around that 1500/day range, even on rest days. Lower the cardio to maybe 2-3x/week and do more HIIT cardio, than steady state, and make sure that you are lifting heavy enough to stay within the 8-10 rep range. You should start to see some really good results within a few weeks.

This makes sense. I haven't seen a HUGE change on the scale (it was about 5 or 6lbs in January, which I think is a decent rate), but I am noticing body changes already, and I think that's due in part to the lifting. I'm also short, which makes small changes more noticeable on my body. But I felt like I was going crazy, that there was no way I could be starting to 'tone' already, and that I was just seeing what I wanted to see and that my fiance was just being nice when he said it

I think I'm confusing gaining muscle and just enhancing or accentuating muscle, if that makes sense. Could be that I don't necessarily need to GAIN more muscle, just make what I have more visible.

'

Yes, this is most likely the case. It's very dificult for any one to gain muscle and under optimal conditions a person will likely gain less than a .12-.5 lbs in a week. Note, that's optimal conditions including diet, training, and genetics. Few will see those rates and even those rates will decrease over time.

RGv2 · February 2016

MMA_Fighter wrote: »

You are looking for "cut" not bulk. So, lift lighter weights while doing more reps.
IE: 15 pound arm curls 15 times vs 25 pound arm curls 8 times.
Heavy weight/less reps = Muscle bulking
Light weight/more reps = Muscle toning

Also, don't worry about the scale "your weight" right now -

Ya...that's pretty much not true. Bulking and cutting has 98% to do with your calorie intake, not the exercise you do.

Op. You may gain a little muscle early on, but when at a deficit we all lose fat, water, and muscle. In that deficit we can work to keep that muscle loss to a minimum. This is normally done though a progressive overload program and getting enough protein. By preserving as much muscle as possible, most of our weight loss is via fat and water. This process helps muscle definition as you strip away the fat covering the muscle you're preserving.

With this process, you may not see the scale move as much as you'd like but the tape measure will.

daniwilford · February 2016

I wished I had began strength and weight training earlier in the process. When you have a great deal of weight to lose you will lose lean body mass, the more strength and weight training you do the less muscle you will lose. I had lost about 45 lbs before starting lifting heavy things, with diet and walking for exercise. I have lost 63 lbs to date and about 5 of those have been lean body mass. When I know how difficult and how much time it would take to gain muscle back it makes me sad. Building or gaining muscle is different from strengthening. You can not build much muscle while eating at a deficit needed to lose weight, but you can strengthen and preserve muscle you have. Eat enough protein and lift heavy things to lose mostly fat.

erickirb · February 2016

MMA_Fighter wrote: »

You are looking for "cut" not bulk. So, lift lighter weights while doing more reps.
IE: 15 pound arm curls 15 times vs 25 pound arm curls 8 times.
Heavy weight/less reps = Muscle bulking
Light weight/more reps = Muscle toning

Also, don't worry about the scale "your weight" right now -

No No No, don't listen to this. building muscle actually is best in the 10-15 rep range, depending on body part, but that also needs a caloric surplus.

there is not such thing as toning, there is building muscle or losing fat.

Also to gain strength and maintain the muscle you already have while losing weight is best done with heavy weights, in the 3-10 rep range, more reps lighter weight is counter productive as it will require more recovery, which in a deficit you don't have the cals/energy for.

rybo · February 2016

MMA_Fighter wrote: »

You are looking for "cut" not bulk. So, lift lighter weights while doing more reps.
IE: 15 pound arm curls 15 times vs 25 pound arm curls 8 times.
Heavy weight/less reps = Muscle bulking
Light weight/more reps = Muscle toning

Also, don't worry about the scale "your weight" right now -

False.

AnvilHead · February 2016

MMA_Fighter wrote: »

You are looking for "cut" not bulk. So, lift lighter weights while doing more reps.
IE: 15 pound arm curls 15 times vs 25 pound arm curls 8 times.
Heavy weight/less reps = Muscle bulking
Light weight/more reps = Muscle toning

Also, don't worry about the scale "your weight" right now -

Doing light weights/high reps while cutting is counterproductive and does little to help retain muscle mass. Reduce frequency and volume (workouts/sets), but keep intensity (weight on the bar).

There is no such thing as "toning". That's the silly stuff they put in women's magazines about routines with little pink dumbbells which weigh less that the purse a woman carries around all day. A muscle either grows (hypertrophy) or shrinks (atrophy). It doesn't "tone". What most people call "toning" is nothing more than reducing your bodyfat so your existing muscle definition is more visible. The above should more accurately read "Light weight/more reps = trying to do cardio with a weight set."

jkal1979 · February 2016

AnvilHead wrote: »

MMA_Fighter wrote: »

You are looking for "cut" not bulk. So, lift lighter weights while doing more reps.
IE: 15 pound arm curls 15 times vs 25 pound arm curls 8 times.
Heavy weight/less reps = Muscle bulking
Light weight/more reps = Muscle toning

Also, don't worry about the scale "your weight" right now -

Doing light weights/high reps while cutting is counterproductive and does little to help retain muscle mass. Reduce frequency and volume (workouts/sets), but keep intensity (weight on the bar).

There is no such thing as "toning". That's the silly stuff they put in women's magazines about routines with little pink dumbbells which weigh less that the purse a woman carries around all day. A muscle either grows (hypertrophy) or shrinks (atrophy). It doesn't "tone". What most people call "toning" is nothing more than reducing your bodyfat so your existing muscle definition is more visible. The above should more accurately read "Light weight/more reps = trying to do cardio with a weight set."

That's not true. Plenty of people tone up every day...

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Losing weight/gaining muscle?

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