Stepping up to endurance running
EatSleepRideRun
Posts: 52 Member
Hi I'm looking for advice, I'm 54 male and got back into running again within the last couple of years. This year I have planned 12 HM and depending on advice a full Marathon later in the year, I'm looking to do a lot more endurance next year. I'm looking at a coast run three marathons in three days, and a 24 hour (see how many 10k laps) run I might even try an Ultra or long trail running.
Okay although I have not been found my LTH though science I've found it through data, calculations and how I feel. Anyway I did a 10 mile run with a view to keeping my HR constant just below my LTH, and although my heart and lungs were fine with the slower pace (in fact, I was 15 minutes slower) my legs we're aching as if I had lactate acid but it wasn't it can't have been.
With a slower pace does that create a different stride that my muscles are not used too. Should I start going further and slower on my Sunday long run?
I currently do 10km Tues, 10 mile Thurs, and 13/14 mile Sunday.
I would be really grateful for any advice as I think this is something Id like to get in to.
Thank you in advance for thoughts on my subject.
Okay although I have not been found my LTH though science I've found it through data, calculations and how I feel. Anyway I did a 10 mile run with a view to keeping my HR constant just below my LTH, and although my heart and lungs were fine with the slower pace (in fact, I was 15 minutes slower) my legs we're aching as if I had lactate acid but it wasn't it can't have been.
With a slower pace does that create a different stride that my muscles are not used too. Should I start going further and slower on my Sunday long run?
I currently do 10km Tues, 10 mile Thurs, and 13/14 mile Sunday.
I would be really grateful for any advice as I think this is something Id like to get in to.
Thank you in advance for thoughts on my subject.
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Replies
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LTH won't predict how your legs are going to feel. You can have a great LHT and still feel terrible due to overtraining or history of work out of prior days.
There are some very experienced runners on here (not me) - I'd suggest you post your history more than your goals.
How long you've been running, your weekly mileage (10 km + 16 km + 22km?), eating (maintenance, losing), do you do any specific training (hills, 400s, strides...). Are you following a plan? Do you also cycle or do other training?
Do you know to taper prior to a marathon?0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »LTH won't predict how your legs are going to feel. You can have a great LHT and still feel terrible due to overtraining or history of work out of prior days.
There are some very experienced runners on here (not me) - I'd suggest you post your history more than your goals.
How long you've been running, your weekly mileage (10 km + 16 km + 22km?), eating (maintenance, losing), do you do any specific training (hills, 400s, strides...). Are you following a plan? Do you also cycle or do other training?
Do you know to taper prior to a marathon?
Has be been able to the get to the 13.1 mile mark yet (it says Sunday 13/14? If that is the case when was the 10 miler he said he had trouble with?
I too would need a lot more info on his history. The types of miles he does prior to the long runs are important. Cross training and even strength training has gotten me to the extra miles, and each extra mile is gonna hurt no doubt. My long runs are at slow even pace, a bit faster in the middle and then back to slow pace.
Def needs to be following a training plan. 12 HM's in a year? When is the first one?
edited to add, what type of training is done Mon, Wed, Fri, Saturday? Any running at all?0 -
Guys thank you for your quick response, I can see (now) the information that's required in order to get help. Would it be advised to add details on this thread or start a new one when I get the information together? Thx0
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I would reply here.
Longer miles are hard
What's your routine look like
Training program
Why do you think your legs wouldn't hurt? You're pushing them beyond comfort0 -
(Edited due to advice picked up on this tread)
Hi I'm looking for advice, I'm 54 male and got back into running again within the last couple of years. This year I have planned 12 HM and depending on advice a full Marathon later in the year, I'm looking to do a lot more endurance next year. I'm looking at a coast run three marathons in three days, and a 24 hour (see how many 10k laps) run I might even try an Ultra or long trail running.
Having found out that LTH might not be as important as I think but perhaps having a plan is.
I'm about a stone over weight so I'm doing EM2WL so I have enough calories built in for my training but I am also losing weight, I'm happy with that and it wont take long I'm sure.
I currently do 10km Tuesdays, 10 mile Thursdays, and 13/14 mile Sunday. if I do anything in the gym on Mondays, Wednesdays, or Fridays its not a program its just messing. Although I have got bikes and a turbo trainer I do not really cross train as I thought I was concentrating on running.
Having wrote this its apparent I don't have a clue all I do is run, I don't run everyday like I used to because the days off really help with recovery.
I have my first HM on Sunday so I will take it easy this week and may not even run if I do it will only be short and slow so I'm not tiered on race day.
I would be really grateful for any advice as I think this is something Id like to get in to.
Thank you in advance for thoughts on my subject.0 -
From ThickMacrunfast (I hope I got that right)
So, you want to do a lot of stuff.
I guess it depends on your goals. Do you want to *race* every HM? Or just complete them? Because it is unlikely that you will PR every time. Also, training to be fast at the HM distance on roads is much different than training for a trail ultra, or for a 24 hour loop course. If you get your mileage up to 50-60 miles a week over a few months, you could complete any of those challenges (barring injury, and with a few added twists for a timed 24 hour race), but the way you focus your training depends on what is important to you, the timing of the different events, and your physical health.
For now, I would add a fourth day of running, and get on some sort of plan that varies your training. You should be doing long runs at an easy pace, tempo runs at your LTH, intervals that are above your LTH, and recovery runs or some hills. Speed work should really at most be 20% of your miles.
And don't stop running entirely this week. You want rested legs, but you don't want them to forget what running is like.
February 22, 2016 12:18PM Flag Quote ·0 -
Have you tried following a training plan?0
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And if you're so in love with running that 12 HMs and 24 hrs races etc are on the radar then why aren't you running more? 3 days a week is like training for 1 HM - sounds more like you should be running 5-6 days at least... Just seems like odd prioritizing...
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No if I'm honest I would not know where to start, but I really need to do something if I want to progress. I appreciate I'm not going to win any races for me it's all about completing but even to complete something like this I really need t know what to do. Hence the cry for help.0
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Google, "Half marathon training plan".0
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No I just do every week Tuesday 10k Thursday 10mile or HIIT and Sunday 13.1 no real structure I'm afraid0
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And if you're so in love with running that 12 HMs and 24 hrs races etc are on the radar then why aren't you running more? 3 days a week is like training for 1 HM - sounds more like you should be running 5-6 days at least... Just seems like odd prioritizing...
This was my first thought. You aren't running enough miles and you aren't running enough days. You're currently running about 29 miles per week. Your long run is 45% of your weekly mileage. That's really high. Especially if you are trying to do ultras or multi-day things. If you were just trying to FINISH a half I'd suggest at MINIMUM you should be doing 39 miles a week, 5 runs a week.
For optimal half, 52 miles a week, 6 days a week.
It would take 3-4 weeks to safely build from 29 miles a week to 39 miles a week. I would not even focus on your lactate threshold or any of that. Just run as many miles as you can, keep your long run 25-33% of your total weekly mileage. Run all but one of your runs 'easy'. So 4 days easy, and your 5th day you can do a tempo run or strides or something. You will see big improvements just from increasing your miles. Don't do too much speed work at this point. Your goal should be to build a base of running and not get injured. You talk about struggling with recovery. I think it is because you are trying to do too much too soon. You probably built up to 29 miles a week in a short amount of time, and might be running a lot of your runs too fast. I wouldn't even be afraid to run ALL your runs easy. Just my opinions.0 -
Gia07 I think you misunderstand I run every week Tuesday 10km Thursday 10 mile and Sunday 13.1 my HM are mostly sub 2 hours, so depending on conditions I'll probably get round in 1:50....0
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EatSleepRideRun wrote: »No I just do every week Tuesday 10k Thursday 10mile or HIIT and Sunday 13.1 no real structure I'm afraid
25 mpw, 3 running days isn't great. If you have some time flexibility try going more frequently but less far.
So as an example try doing 3 x 3 mile runs a week, 2 x 6 mile runs and your long 12 mile run on Sunday. That's 1 day fully off. It's not much more than what you're doing but spaced out a better. Speed doesn't matter just get it done and don't be exhausted. You should finish a run feeling like you could go 2-5 more if you wanted.
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So sorry I thought you meant I'd just started.......Bloody hell I need help then I'm doing 12 HM this year .....I just go out and run0
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EatSleepRideRun wrote: »Gia07 I think you misunderstand I run every week Tuesday 10km Thursday 10 mile and Sunday 13.1 my HM are mostly sub 2 hours, so depending on conditions I'll probably get round in 1:50....
I think she misunderstood the part where you said "Hi I'm looking for advice" to mean that you wanted others opinions.0 -
It looks like I have lots of studying to do.....Stepping up don't think so unless I find on do proper training.0
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EatSleepRideRun wrote: »Gia07 I think you misunderstand I run every week Tuesday 10km Thursday 10 mile and Sunday 13.1 my HM are mostly sub 2 hours, so depending on conditions I'll probably get round in 1:50....
No, the break down is in what exactly is wanted here. I have removed my postings and backing off the thread. Waffle you seem to be extremely op in everything I do in the forums.0 -
I was going to apologies for wasting people's time but actually I'm so glad I ask the question.....more research needed I think
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I am a fun runner, so I can't give the expert advice. I run for my health, for fun, for escape and just because I have always loved running. It's an addiction. Anyway, I don't know all the ins and outs and what to tell you to do, but I do know that following a plan helps tremendously. There are apps with training plans and you can also google different types...Hal Higdon has the walk/run types, even to avoid injury and finish a half or full in good time. Your muscles will hurt any time that you add mileage or increase pace. Hill repeats, speed runs, etc are good to get a quicker pace.
There are facebook groups you can join to post your own runs, ask questions or or see what others are doing. For me, that was perfect since I am nowhere near an elite athlete, but just like to enjoy my running and work on going faster or longer, and encourage others. Anyway, those are my thoughts on your subject. I hope it helps. Make sure to hydrate and take in plenty of electrolytes for longer distances and warm weather. Put in a rest day and try to avoid injury:-). Happy running!0 -
EatSleepRideRun wrote: »Gia07 I think you misunderstand I run every week Tuesday 10km Thursday 10 mile and Sunday 13.1 my HM are mostly sub 2 hours, so depending on conditions I'll probably get round in 1:50....
I think she misunderstood the part where you said "Hi I'm looking for advice" to mean that you wanted others opinions.
Yeah no offense to the OP in this thread but I'm starting to think any post I make on someone's running thread should just be 'you're fine, keep doing what you're doing' because I feel like nothing else gets listened to. Obviously I need to get my run in today if I am getting grumpy about it.0 -
I just tried to send this msg but it wont go I hope gia07 picks it up.
gia07
I am really sorry if I made you cross, as you can tell I dont have a clue, and thats why i asked the question about stepping up. I just go out and run, I have no idea about programs, and if I have learnt anything I need to study and assess.
If I upset you in anyway please except my sincere apologies.
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blondierunner2015 wrote: »I am a fun runner, so I can't give the expert advice. I run for my health, for fun, for escape and just because I have always loved running. It's an addiction. Anyway, I don't know all the ins and outs and what to tell you to do, but I do know that following a plan helps tremendously. There are apps with training plans and you can also google different types...Hal Higdon has the walk/run types, even to avoid injury and finish a half or full in good time. Your muscles will hurt any time that you add mileage or increase pace. Hill repeats, speed runs, etc are good to get a quicker pace.
There are facebook groups you can join to post your own runs, ask questions or or see what others are doing. For me, that was perfect since I am nowhere near an elite athlete, but just like to enjoy my running and work on going faster or longer, and encourage others. Anyway, those are my thoughts on your subject. I hope it helps. Make sure to hydrate and take in plenty of electrolytes for longer distances and warm weather. Put in a rest day and try to avoid injury:-). Happy running!
You mean like the Fitness and Exercise section of MFP?
There are a lot of knowledgable people (several of whom have appeared in OP's threads) who respond every day. There are also long distance running groups here.0 -
I was looking for advice and I have indeed got that. As a person who just goes running and wanted to try going further, in all honesty I didn't fully understand what was been asked and half the time what was meant. I thought I was doing okay to run a HM, its obvious I'm not.
1. I need to do more miles.
2. I need to run at least 6 times a week
3. I need a constructive training program
4. I have pasted everyone's advice on one document to look at.
Thank you everyone I have some studying to do, you have all been a great help. If anything I don't have a clue and I either I find a programme or possibly join a running club. Thanks again0 -
Don't be discouraged! Research is fun and more satisfying than you think
Your current mileage is suitable for HMs. But if you want to step up to a marathon or even an ultra (though you may want to wait on that til 2017), you'll have to increase your mileage. I think you can do that with 4-5 days a week of running. For my first marathon, I trained 5 days a week and maxed at 40-45 miles. It was a slog, but I finished. I've kept increasing my mileage and now run 50-60 miles per week no problem; you just can't go too far too fast (as you hopefully know from HM training before).
You seem to know what works for you NOW, so build on that. Try adding one shorter run a week. Give yourself until the fall to build up to 45-50 miles a week and then train for a fall marathon. Then if you want to run more marathons, or an ultra, a 24 hour race, etc, you can build from there!0 -
Keep asking questions - ideas evolve and we get a dozen new ones every time we advance. In terms of programs - many different ones exist but a lot of people have some success with the Hal Higdon plans.
http://www.halhigdon.com/training/51135/Marathon-Training-Guide0
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