a few running questions...

Even if you were really really skinny (like elite marathon runners) you'd still have enough fat on your body to be able to use it as a source of fuel, so I wouldn't worry about that. I personally don't bother eating anything at all on my long runs but if you are out for quite a long time and feel a dip in energy, you just need to experiment with how much you want/need. However, one jelly baby or haribo every four to five miles is really not very much energy, maybe about 20 calories (not more than 5g carbs, surely, as they're only small). So the only difference it would make would be similar to the 'rinse your mouth with sports drink' effect of making your body THINK it is getting some energy and can therefore afford to spend more. If you are running out of energy on the long runs you might consider having more or eating them more often, or eating more the day before, or taking sports drink (etc.).

As for the training programme, you obviously need to fit in what you can around the rest of your life, though it doesn't seem ideal to me to have the two longest runs so close together in the week. Also, as you increase distance on the long runs it would be much easier to do if the miles in the rest of the week were gradually increasing a bit too. I wonder whether you might consider a short, easy morning run sometimes on days when you work late? E.g. get up half an hour earlier? Or see if you have more time to spend in the gym one day a week? But obviously it has to fit in with your life.

Are you eating 1 gummy bear every few miles? If so, that's definitely not enough. Generally, it's recommended to consume around 100 calories per 45-60 minutes, so you'd want to be eating a few gummies at a time, or eat 1-2 but more frequently. As for carbing before you go, whatever you eat right before a run for breakfast isn't going to help much since your body is still absorbing it. If you want to carb up, eating pasta or rice the night before will be your best bet.

hyg99 wrote: »

My next question is about training plans. I work full time, have 3 teens and all the extra bits that they do, so have a very structured week. Monday is "rest" as work later, I run in the gym Tuesday (4mile at faster speed than normal) around music lessons, so have 45 mins only. Wednesday I have 70 minutes in gym (around swimming!) so run again fast for me for 60 minutes. Thursday again rest as often work later, Friday we run usually 6-10 miles then Saturday cross train, Sunday being long run day. I have been building up the Friday runs to 10 and the Sunday is increased half a mile, till "comfortable" currently 13.2. I'm planning on getting this to 18-20 but we are slow, so 13 is taking 2 & 1/2 hours. My understanding is shouldn't train longer than 3 hours so how will I ever get close to goal? I see training plans that are very different miles each week so are we doing it all wrong or does it not matter?
We live in a very hilly area so Fri and sat are both hill runs.

Ok, so just to clarify: you run Sunday-long, Monday-rest, Tuesday-4 miles speedy, Wednesday-60 minutes speedy, Thursday-rest, Friday-10 miles, Saturday-XT.

My first advice would be to do those 4 miles speedy, but don't rush through your Wednesday run. You should only be doing 1 workout a week "hard", especially since you're running fairly long two of the other 4 days a week you are running.

As for your longest runs, you have two options. Adhere to the 3 hour rule (I'd argue you can stretch that to 3 hours 15 minutes) and get a max run of probably 16-17 miles. Or you can throw the rule out the window and train up to 18-20 miles. Whatever feels right to you. I know people who go out for 3:30-4:00 hour 20 milers, and I know people who have completed marathons with a longest long run of 16 miles. Either way, it can be done. It would be smarter to keep your long run under 3.5 hours though, or else you'll spend most of the next week recovering instead of training.

Have you tried different brands of gels? Some brands are thinner and like syrup (Power gel), and others are thicker (Gu & Clif gels). The gels are 90 to 120 calories per packet, so what ever you use should have similar number of calories.I have also used pb&j, just jelly, or nutella sandwiches cut into quarters, sports beans, stinger waffles, and various energy chews. The calories from sports drinks also count. The important thing to keep in mind is that your body can only process 150 to 200 calories per hr while running. Consume too much and you'll end up with gi problems.

In the past for a HM I take one gel 15 minutes before the race and a second between mile 6 & 9. For a full I would take one about every 45 minutes. I am 1 1/2 months from my next full and am working on fat-adapted running. The only calories I consume on long runs is from sports drinks (160 calories max) and so far I have done several runs between 14 & 18 miles.

During training there is no reason to carb load. Your long training runs should not be run hard enough that you NEED to carb load. On slower runs your body should be able to keep up with converting fat for energy.

As far as training I would recommend checking out a structured plan. Personally I have used Hal Higdon's plans for all of my halfs and fulls. Generally you will have the longest run on the weekend and the second longest midweek. Also you should have an 80%/20% mix of easy runs to hard runs(race pace, intervals, hill repeats, etc.). Running hard or fast all the time increases your chance of injury and not making it to the starting line.

Maybe you can work out something with a couple of the other parents who have kids doing extracurriculars with yours, so that you each take turns taking kids to practice/events. This might allow you to do a longer midweek run every other week. Maybe there are other parents that are giving up things for their kid's sake and would be willing to split the burden so that they can do their other activity.

i didn't like the liquid fuels, so i went with Chomps. I also tried jelly bellies sport beans
on short runs, i don't eat anything beforehand, but on long runs, I'll have cereal, or nut butter, or a banana. and then Chomp every 4 to 5 miles

Assuming that you're eating enough carbs to begin with (typically runners will eat 55 to 60% of their calories from carbs) you should have enough stored glycogen to see you through about 90 minutes or so even if you didn't eat anything before your run. As far as fuel goes your body is always using a combination of glycogen and fat it's just the proportions that vary with intensity.

Here's an article on fueling marathons that you may find interesting...

runnersworld.com/fuel-school/how-to-fuel-for-your-first-marathon

My solution to the scheduling nightmare teenagers can cause is running at 5AM.

I'm not sure where you got the 3hr max rule from. If you look at most marathon plans they'll have you running 18 & 20 miles as your longest runs. If you're hitting 10 min miles the 18 mile run will hit 3 hrs bang on, based on your current paces that isn't going to happen for a while yet so it really comes down to whatever it takes to get the miles in.

hyg99 wrote: »

Shoe laces are now permanently knotted to ensure they don't come undone. I suppose hence I can't be a runner...

Thanks

Here's an idea you can borrow from triathletes (bungee shoe laces speed up transitions)



Bungee shoelaces mean that you don't need to leave the laces loose enough to slip your foot in and out of the shoe (less shoe movement less likely to get blisters etc) and spread the pressure evenly across your foot. I've been using them for years, best invention since the wheel!

badassbeaver wrote: »

@brian sharpe-What shoes are these?

The brand is called INOV-8. They make a ton of great shoes!

Thank you!

BrianSharpe wrote: »

I'm not sure where you got the 3hr max rule from. If you look at most marathon plans they'll have you running 18 & 20 miles as your longest runs. If you're hitting 10 min miles the 18 mile run will hit 3 hrs bang on, based on your current paces that isn't going to happen for a while yet so it really comes down to whatever it takes to get the miles in.

It is a rule of thumb, and is only useful for that. Everyone is different and recovers differently. The conventional wisdom is that at around that 3 hour mark you are going to start having longer and longer recovery times. So 10 minute miles x 18 miles = 3hrs, but if you go to 3:20 for 20 miles? I wouldn't worry about it.

If you are looking at taking more like 4 hours or more to do your 20 miles you should at least question yourself whether or not the recovery cost is worth that training load. Note that I am not at all saying that if you are a 5-6hr marathoner you should give up. I am not saying that at all. However the recovery cost of a 20 mile run >4hrs might not be worth the training effect you get from it. If you end up topping out your training runs at 3hrs and only 15-16 miles (but maybe you do that 4-5 times in your training plan) you might get a better training effect from the multiple "shorter" runs than the one big run that costs you well over a week to truly recover from. Then on race day, execute as you planned even though you are running 10 miles farther than you did during any training run. At that point you are expecting to take a big recovery hit, so it doesn't matter.

Doing well at a marathon (for whatever definition of "well" you want to use), is all about the cumulative effect of all of the miles you run in training. It is not about any one long run you have built up to. So that 3hr thing is at least a usable "rule of thumb" to decide if a traditional plan that builds you up to a 20-22 mile run is for you, or if you should choose a plan that has you running "shorter" long runs at the end, but doing a good number more of them.