Heating Blueberries
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Carlos_421 wrote: »So if I have 10 grams of carbohydrates in the form of raw blueberries (40 calories) and I heat them from 20C to 30C (10 grams x .001 x 10C = 1 calorie), you're saying I now have 11 calories in my food.
No, I'm saying you need to work on your calculation. #failWhat if "because Yarwell said so" isn't sufficient evidence for the validity of a silly claim that a microwave can add calories to your food?
Silly ? Pfft. Thermodynamics, a calorie is a calorie and all that.0 -
How do you account for blowing on your food? And do we need to be taking the temperature of each bite before consuming? What about the loss in temperature while the chewing process occurs? Isn't all food body temperature by the time it reaches the digestive tract?
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, HOW ARE WE SUPPOSED TO CALCULATE CALORIES NOW?!
don't forget the faecal calorimeter etc.
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Alatariel75 wrote: »0.001 calories per gram per degree C of extra temperature is the number of calories to add for heating, approximately.
100g of blueberries at 40 C compared to 20C = 2 extra calories.
What counts as "extra" temperature? Like, what's the baseline on which one would expect the USDA calorie count for blueberries was calculated?
Above room temperature or whatever base temperature USDA use.
I don't know the convention in nutrition, but in Thermodynamics generally either 0 or 25 C tend to be common.
"Atwater and Rosa (63) defined the Calorie at 20°C and noted that it was slightly larger than the 18°C unit employed by Armsby (64)." according to http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/12/2957.full
Dietary calories are kCals and they don't reflect straight bomb calorimetry numbers anyway. I fail to see why you'd then think it would be appropriate to add the numbers into determining diet, particularly as 100 grams for blueberries is not 100 grams of water, and wouldn't even contain 2 kCal worth of true heat content when heated from 20C to 40C anyway.
The implication would be that you could cure world starvation if you just gave everyone some parabolic mirrors and access to water...
Not sure if you're just 'avin' a bubble or you seriously think humans are thermotrophic.
As you can see from the maths I know that a "Calorie" is a kg-calorie and not a calorie (small c)
The effect is not significant, as I believe I demonstrated, and if you consider the word "approximately" I believe I have taken care of the difference in specific heat from 1.0 due to a) composition (although most of a blueberry is water) and b) it not being at a standard temperature.
Isn't this what you CICO people believe ? Hotter food = slightly more calories in.0 -
MommyL2015 wrote: »How on earth can simply heating something up add calories? Where do they come from? Do the blueberries absorb microwave energy somehow and turn it into calories? Interesting. Does this apply to all food? Because I use my microwave a lot.
Heat energy is added by the microwave energy which is a small part of the electrical energy which in turn is a part of the fuel used to generate the electricity which......
A calorie is a unit of heat energy, its very definition is that heating something up adds calories.0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »0.001 calories per gram per degree C of extra temperature is the number of calories to add for heating, approximately.
100g of blueberries at 40 C compared to 20C = 2 extra calories.
What counts as "extra" temperature? Like, what's the baseline on which one would expect the USDA calorie count for blueberries was calculated?
Above room temperature or whatever base temperature USDA use.
I don't know the convention in nutrition, but in Thermodynamics generally either 0 or 25 C tend to be common.
"Atwater and Rosa (63) defined the Calorie at 20°C and noted that it was slightly larger than the 18°C unit employed by Armsby (64)." according to http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/12/2957.full
Dietary calories are kCals and they don't reflect straight bomb calorimetry numbers anyway. I fail to see why you'd then think it would be appropriate to add the numbers into determining diet, particularly as 100 grams for blueberries is not 100 grams of water, and wouldn't even contain 2 kCal worth of true heat content when heated from 20C to 40C anyway.
The implication would be that you could cure world starvation if you just gave everyone some parabolic mirrors and access to water...
Not sure if you're just 'avin' a bubble or you seriously think humans are thermotrophic.
As you can see from the maths I know that a "Calorie" is a kg-calorie and not a calorie (small c)
The effect is not significant, as I believe I demonstrated, and if you consider the word "approximately" I believe I have taken care of the difference in specific heat from 1.0 due to a) composition (although most of a blueberry is water) and b) it not being at a standard temperature.
Isn't this what you CICO people believe ? Hotter food = slightly more calories in.
And sitting in the cold raises your TDEE. And drinking cold water raises your TDEE.
<minds blown everywhere>
And yet... it doesn't matter.
(ps OP - heating fruit does not release more sugars. This is just part of the TEF. Energy carried and released by food.)
(ops. The thermal density of food stuff varies tremendously the 0.001 cal per g per degree probably varies by 20%.)0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »0.001 calories per gram per degree C of extra temperature is the number of calories to add for heating, approximately.
100g of blueberries at 40 C compared to 20C = 2 extra calories.
What counts as "extra" temperature? Like, what's the baseline on which one would expect the USDA calorie count for blueberries was calculated?
Above room temperature or whatever base temperature USDA use.
I don't know the convention in nutrition, but in Thermodynamics generally either 0 or 25 C tend to be common.
"Atwater and Rosa (63) defined the Calorie at 20°C and noted that it was slightly larger than the 18°C unit employed by Armsby (64)." according to http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/12/2957.full
Dietary calories are kCals and they don't reflect straight bomb calorimetry numbers anyway. I fail to see why you'd then think it would be appropriate to add the numbers into determining diet, particularly as 100 grams for blueberries is not 100 grams of water, and wouldn't even contain 2 kCal worth of true heat content when heated from 20C to 40C anyway.
The implication would be that you could cure world starvation if you just gave everyone some parabolic mirrors and access to water...
Not sure if you're just 'avin' a bubble or you seriously think humans are thermotrophic.
As you can see from the maths I know that a "Calorie" is a kg-calorie and not a calorie (small c)
The effect is not significant, as I believe I demonstrated, and if you consider the word "approximately" I believe I have taken care of the difference in specific heat from 1.0 due to a) composition (although most of a blueberry is water) and b) it not being at a standard temperature.
Isn't this what you CICO people believe ? Hotter food = slightly more calories in.
If you believe that, why didn't you include the calculation of the sunlight energy hitting someone's skin depending on if they're eating in the dark or not, like some people seem to be.
I'm also in for the metabolic pathways where thermal energy is digested, as that is what in means. I'm sure it will have to involve insulin in some way...0 -
Energy gains and losses from surrounding has to be part of the equation, for sure. Small though they are likely to be.
Would one not expect to eat more to stay in a thermal balance at -40 C compared to +30 C ?0 -
But what about the extra calories my body will need to use to bring the blueberries back down to 98.6F?
Or is that offset by the fewer calories burned to raise the temperature of the yogurt?0 -
If fruit is cooked there are juices released, fibers broken down and the sugar becomes more available. But the quantity of sugar is the same. The difference would be that the sugars would enter the bloodstream faster for the cooked fruit than from the raw fruit. But the same number of calories would be consumed in both instances.
The reason cooked foods like meats are more calories per gram (and this is reflected in the MFP entries raw vs cooked) is that some water is released during cooking.
Frozen to room temperature surely makes no difference.0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »But what about the extra calories my body will need to use to bring the blueberries back down to 98.6F?
your body will gain that heat from the hot food and not need to produce that heat - it's not like a fridge cooling it down.
A sensible energy balance would start from the inputs at their input temperature and the outputs at the output/waste temperatures, so as standard the calorific value should reflect turning food at initial temperature into waste at body temperature.
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jofjltncb6 wrote: »But what about the extra calories my body will need to use to bring the blueberries back down to 98.6F?
your body will gain that heat from the hot food and not need to produce that heat - it's not like a fridge cooling it down.
A sensible energy balance would start from the inputs at their input temperature and the outputs at the output/waste temperatures, so as standard the calorific value should reflect turning food at initial temperature into waste at body temperature.
So you're saying that we burn fewer calories sitting in a sauna than sitting at room temperature?
:huh:0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »OP it's ...not sweat the minute details like if heating your blueberries in the microwave adds 1 calorie to them. Or, while they are hearing, walk one lap around your kitchen and it's a wash.
.
Rest assured.. I won't be breaking into a sweat. Why the need to say such a thing? It was just an informal question and I was not unkind in any way when I asked. I'd rather you left those kind of comments. Good luck!
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Carlos_421 wrote: »So if I have 10 grams of carbohydrates in the form of raw blueberries (40 calories) and I heat them from 20C to 30C (10 grams x .001 x 10C = 1 calorie), you're saying I now have 11 calories in my food.
No, I'm saying you need to work on your calculation. #failWhat if "because Yarwell said so" isn't sufficient evidence for the validity of a silly claim that a microwave can add calories to your food?
Silly ? Pfft. Thermodynamics, a calorie is a calorie and all that.
You're right, I missed a decimal point.
Either way, you're leading to OP to be concerned about needing to count more calories if her blueberries get hot which is, indeed, a ludicrous thing to be concerned over.0 -
If fruit is cooked there are juices released, fibers broken down and the sugar becomes more available. But the quantity of sugar is the same. The difference would be that the sugars would enter the bloodstream faster for the cooked fruit than from the raw fruit. But the same number of calories would be consumed in both instances.
The reason cooked foods like meats are more calories per gram (and this is reflected in the MFP entries raw vs cooked) is that some water is released during cooking.
Frozen to room temperature surely makes no difference.
Not for everyone, when I cook with frozen shrimp the weight change is about 30% from frozen to room temp. (one weighs the drained shrimp, not the left over water.)0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »OP it's ...not sweat the minute details like if heating your blueberries in the microwave adds 1 calorie to them. Or, while they are hearing, walk one lap around your kitchen and it's a wash.
.
Rest assured.. I won't be breaking into a sweat. Why the need to say such a thing? It was just an informal question and I was not unkind in any way when I asked. I'd rather you left those kind of comments. Good luck!
But sweating actually burns calories.
(Unless, of course, yarwell says otherwise.)0 -
Aha. Water removal @EvgeniZyntx . But our beloved, meticulous OP is incorporating her blueberry juices in to her delicious, nutritious, and appropriately calorific breakfast.0
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »So if I have 10 grams of carbohydrates in the form of raw blueberries (40 calories) and I heat them from 20C to 30C (10 grams x .001 x 10C = 1 calorie), you're saying I now have 11 calories in my food.
No, I'm saying you need to work on your calculation. #failWhat if "because Yarwell said so" isn't sufficient evidence for the validity of a silly claim that a microwave can add calories to your food?
Silly ? Pfft. Thermodynamics, a calorie is a calorie and all that.
You're right, I missed a decimal point.
Either way, you're leading to OP to be concerned about needing to count more calories if her blueberries get hot which is, indeed, a ludicrous thing to be concerned over.
This.
OP, Yarwell apparently clarified that he tried to use math to prove that worrying about the few calories is ridiculous (I think? I'm so lost in this conversation).
Don't worry about it; move on and keep logging. You'll be fine.0 -
Aha. Water removal @EvgeniZyntx . But our beloved, meticulous OP is incorporating her blueberry juices in to her delicious, nutritious, and appropriately calorific breakfast.
But they aren't frozen. Fresh of course, which has a few more micronutrients and less broken down proteins so ... more calories.
12 week old blueberries obviously have less calories than just picked ones.0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »But what about the extra calories my body will need to use to bring the blueberries back down to 98.6F?
your body will gain that heat from the hot food and not need to produce that heat - it's not like a fridge cooling it down.
A sensible energy balance would start from the inputs at their input temperature and the outputs at the output/waste temperatures, so as standard the calorific value should reflect turning food at initial temperature into waste at body temperature.
Are you saying that the body does not regulate it's temperature, or are you saying that energy is not used during that regulation process?0 -
Aha. Water removal @EvgeniZyntx . But our beloved, meticulous OP is incorporating her blueberry juices in to her delicious, nutritious, and appropriately calorific breakfast.
Please find another thread to leave your unkind comments.0
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